Worn out or press on...

[dern]

My bike (2001 929 y2k blade, 35k miles) is starting to become unreliable. Although this is a relative term it's let me down a couple of times of late and work on it had turned from solely being preventative servicing to fixing stuff that's actually broken and much as I love the bike it's starting to get on my tits. Today I'll rolled up at work only to find the battery is completely dead and now I have to arrange to get the rac to take me home which will take hours, then I have to diagnose it and then fix the fking thing.

I love this bike to bits but I need to it to be reliable. Basically I don't know whether to fix it and press on understanding that in all likelyhood this is just a blip and hondas being hondas it will last forever or give it a miss, put it in the shed as a toy (track/sundays) and buy something sensible to commute on.

Thanks for listening

Mark

[dern]

N Dentressangle said:

Having had to jump start SWMBO's Hornet this morning (see other thread), it's noticeable how much of the unreliability in older cars and bikes can be electrical.

It would probably be worth having a look at the electrical systems.

- are there any drains on the battery which there shouldn't be?
- is the alternator in good shape and charging properly?
- is the starter motor in good condition?
- are all cables and switches in good nick, and properly lubricated / WD40'd?
- is the battery old or past its best?

I wonder whether a weekend of pre-emptive fettling might help - its easy to get very pissed off with a bike for a serious of minor, preventable electrical problems, when the basic mechanics of the thing are still strong.

Diagnosing it isn't a problem and I spent a full weekend getting it ready for a track day and normal usage and I didn't catch this. It's not a case of letting the bike go as it gets much more premptive servicing than most bikes do.

I'll get it home, charge the battery and then check the battery voltage to see if it's charging and so on... usual drill.

Cheers though.

[dern]

hiccy said:

I know you had problem with the forks, and now this. You could get this sorted and the bike could last for years without missing a beat. Or it could break down next week. You need a commuter to be reliable and buying new is no guarantee of this, just a lot more likely.

An attractive proposition is to buy a second bike which is cheaper to commute on and keep the blade rather than replacing the blade and putting all my eggs in a slightly newer basket

[dern]

hornetrider said:

My advice to the OP would be to resolve the current gremlin and continue as I'm sure the Blade will continue to be reliable in the main. Mind, at 35k and 7 years old, its getting to the age where certain items will need replacing or refurbishing.

The difficulty is that stuff wearing out and needing fixing isn't an issue as I can fix all this sort of stuff myself. The main issue is being left at the side of the road when I should be at work and then being without the bike until it's fixed. I suspect that I can't eliminate the former completely as even if I buy a new bike it will become a used bike immediately and these things happen. Having two bikes sorts out the latter though.

[dern]

smack said:

And the generator which two of the windings didn't produce enough volts (the generator produces AC, three phase if I remember right, which goes to the rectifier making lovely DC for electrical system). Resulted in a dead battery was being drained by the electrics and spark plugs. If I was changing gear and using the brake, the current drain was too much for the duff generator and drained battery and the bike conked out. That was a fun 40 mile ride home I tell you!

That's what's wrong with mine. The rac man said the battery was shagged and the charging circuit was not charging (below about 7k rpm). Rode the 10 miles to the local honda garage to get a new battery which got me home but everytime the revs dropped to anything sensible the clocks went dead and it started misfiring. Character building stuff.

Honda want £300 quid for a new stator!!!

[dern]

Rick448 said:

Are you sure it is that and not the rectifier? I think they are common faults on Hondas aren't they.

I'm not sure yet. I'll diagnose it after work.

[dern]

smack said:

dern said:

smack said:

And the generator which two of the windings didn't produce enough volts (the generator produces AC, three phase if I remember right, which goes to the rectifier making lovely DC for electrical system). Resulted in a dead battery was being drained by the electrics and spark plugs. If I was changing gear and using the brake, the current drain was too much for the duff generator and drained battery and the bike conked out. That was a fun 40 mile ride home I tell you!

That's what's wrong with mine. The rac man said the battery was shagged and the charging circuit was not charging (below about 7k rpm). Rode the 10 miles to the local honda garage to get a new battery which got me home but everytime the revs dropped to anything sensible the clocks went dead and it started misfiring. Character building stuff.

Honda want £300 quid for a new stator!!!

The way to check according to my workshop manual (from memory) for Suzuki's is to pull off the connector for the generator, and measure the volts produced on each phase at something like 4000rpm. The Blade has to be similar. If that is fine, then the rectifier could be the problem.

I think I downloaded a workshop manual a few months ago on my work laptop, I'll see if I can find it as I can't be arsed doing any work

Don't worry, I have the workshop manual for the blade, thanks though

[dern]

smack said:

Hi Dern,

"Found" a workshop manual for your bike - got a FTP site handy? It's 46Mb

Very kind of you to look but I've already got the honda one. Thanks very much though

[dern]

Rubin215 said:

black-k1 said:

Small ‘rattles’ and ‘clunks’ will, in your mind, become precursors to major component failures which will mean that, regardless how reliable the bike is from this point on, you will start to dread each journey.

A workmate who was previously an RAF fitter told how newly qualified (and undoubtedly nervous) pilots would frequently report aircraft to have "unfamiliar noises from engine."
While every reported fault was always investigated, the standard term used in logging the action taken was; "Having listened to engine for thirty minutes, all noises produced are now familiar."

I regularly drive a 37 year old VW Beetle; if all the rattles and clunks it makes preyed on my mind I would be a nervous wreck!

The simple answer is ride it until it breaks down, fix it when you have to.

I got used to the rattles on the blade a couple of years ago. The bike resonates at 5000rpm and no matter how many times I go round the thing I can't eliminate them all. The exhaust htev valve also rattles. Even the valve train rattles (but I know all the clearances are all good). The mirror glass rattled in the plastic housing until I super-glued them in place (although one is not rattling again). The chain runs so close to the swing arm that if you get a tight spot in that it can cause it to rattle. The clunky gear change causes everything to rattle. All common complaints on the fireblade forum. Bloody things

[dern]

smack said:

Ah no problem. Page 16-7 in the Honda one. Check for short in the alternator. Mine tested fine, but the Suzuki manual says to also check the output AC voltage, which was duff on mine, and yours by the sounds of it.

My rectifier checked out to spec and the resistance between the stator wires was fine but they are supposed to be open circuit to earth which they weren't. Pulled the stator out and there's a big break and loads of burn marks. That'll be shagged then.

[dern]

smack said:

Try fleabay / breakers for one, as with luck they are common part over a few years and different models so easy to pick up and cheap rather than from your local Honda Stealer.

There's a company just down the road that does replacement stators (they also have an ebay shop). I'm picking one up from there this afternoon for 88 inc vat.

Finally tomorrow I have to go back to honda to pick up a paper gasket (I can't see a way I can get to both today annoyingly) for which they want to charge £5 plus vat. It's almost funny.

[dern]

N Dentressangle said:

I had a meeting in Bath this lunchtime and rode over. Bike overheated in Bristol on the way back, and was pushing up towards the red zone by the time I parked, spitting coolant on the floor.

Problem? Corroded cooling fan earth connector - cue 2 hours pissing about after work trying to find an alternative earthing route for the fan.

I feel your pain.

I feel a bit happier about the bike this morning as I've found the problem and have a new stator waiting for me.

I'm just a bit arsed off with unreliable transport at the moment. I recently sold a ducati which was perfectly reliable which left me with a honda fireblade and a subaru impreza both japanese and supposedly dead reliable. The blade lunched its forks and then its alternator and the impreza lunched its engine. Frustrating really, lol.

[dern]

fking thing broke down on me again... on the way to work this morning. So since the stator repair I've had to do the front discs and get recover when the fuel pump died. Today it's stopped charging again so either the stator has burnt out again or the rectifier has died this time.

I feel a bonfire coming on.

Edited by dern on Thursday 11th September 13:33

[dern]

StevRS said:

dern said:

The main issue is being left at the side of the road

This is exceptionally rare if you keep on top of the bike - I think you've just been unlucky

I do regularly service it (not just oil but a proper job) and keep replacing worn out bits as and when needed... the only thing I don't do is clean it. I think you're right... but I still want to burn it

[dern]

road_rager said:

HEY

My 60K mile 2001 929 had the EXACT same problem! It's what made me sell it! My bike kept on burning out the generators I went through half a dozen! and then finally sold the fking thing earlier this year, as it was getting on my tits! It's a problem with these bikes from that year, that get used a lot in traffic... Sell the fker

Hmm... mine was fine up to 35k miles though on the original stator coil and then it blew.

[dern]

road_rager said:

dern said:

road_rager said:

HEY

My 60K mile 2001 929 had the EXACT same problem! It's what made me sell it! My bike kept on burning out the generators I went through half a dozen! and then finally sold the fking thing earlier this year, as it was getting on my tits! It's a problem with these bikes from that year, that get used a lot in traffic... Sell the fker

Hmm... mine was fine up to 35k miles though on the original stator coil and then it blew.

Mine was fine till about 30Kish too... My bike had no modifications at all and had several shops look at it, I even had a heavy duty generator wound for me, and that lasted longer but still burnt out! With a bit of asking about it seems that VFR's of same vintage had similar problems, my bike left me stranded about 5 or six times with no warning what so ever, I got so fked off with it in the middle of winter that I rode it home in the dark on the M25 with no lights on just so I didn't have to wait hours for the RAC

Christ, that's not encouraging