Problem, help appreciated
Discussion
Earlier this year, about May I think, the car cut out about 30 seconds after starting & took about 10 minutes to get going again .It did not show up any more issues until about 3 weeks ago, I backed it out of the garage, running a bit ragged & then it cut out, again 5-10 minutes of leaning on the starter off & on to get it going. Good job the battery is strong. Again it ran ok for about a week & then did it again a week last Sunday
This time it did not exactly cut out straight off, it ran very badly, I had the bonnet up to take a look, it was emitting some bad banging noises but not out of the exhausts & I was having trouble tracing the sound. Then I noticed the l/h manifold was glowing red hot, between the 4 branch & the lambda sensor. Not good ,so I shut it down, left it a while but it refused to restart & the edge was starting to go off the battery. I tried it again in the morning, got it from the garage to the drive & that was as far as it went. I tried a mates flow meter but that wasn`t it. I thought of the ecu, I rang Paul at PPC & he said if I wanted to I could bite the bullet & let him have the ecu to have it looked at. I got it back today, no faults, bugger. I tried running it with the lambda`s disconnected, no change, it ran but very very badly as before. I have considered changing them over to see if the manifold glows on the right instead ?? but I have not got one off yet, tomorrow maybe. Meanwhile I thought I would put it to you guys to see if you can suggest anything, sorry for long post & thanks in advance........... Andy
This time it did not exactly cut out straight off, it ran very badly, I had the bonnet up to take a look, it was emitting some bad banging noises but not out of the exhausts & I was having trouble tracing the sound. Then I noticed the l/h manifold was glowing red hot, between the 4 branch & the lambda sensor. Not good ,so I shut it down, left it a while but it refused to restart & the edge was starting to go off the battery. I tried it again in the morning, got it from the garage to the drive & that was as far as it went. I tried a mates flow meter but that wasn`t it. I thought of the ecu, I rang Paul at PPC & he said if I wanted to I could bite the bullet & let him have the ecu to have it looked at. I got it back today, no faults, bugger. I tried running it with the lambda`s disconnected, no change, it ran but very very badly as before. I have considered changing them over to see if the manifold glows on the right instead ?? but I have not got one off yet, tomorrow maybe. Meanwhile I thought I would put it to you guys to see if you can suggest anything, sorry for long post & thanks in advance........... Andy
ChilliWhizz said:
Makes much sense, can't think of any other reason... it's significantly overheating exactly where a precat is... what else could cause it to glow red at that exact point? Twas me, I'd remove the Y piece and investigate, many have successfully drilled out/removed the precats without having to take the manifolds off.... There's a few threads on doing this, search for precat removal, should throw something up....
Chilli
Sounds like fun Chilli
thanks for the post. Somebody at work suggested this to me on Friday, I dismissed it.l6rth said:
I removed my pre cats leaving the manifolds on and it took about 3hrs all in, one tip I have is use a long auger bit instead of an masonry bit in the drill as the auger bit pulls the material out instead of pushing it in. Good luck.
Rob
Do I need loosen off the exhaust to remove the Y piece ?, all the bolts are off but it will not go forward enough to slide off the exhaust, hits the chassis first.Rob
I have no flexi pipe either & getting the manifolds off without a double garage & a 4 post lift seems damn near out of the question.Add to this I get a little claustrophobic under the car. There is a Formula 1 service centre not more than 300yds from my house ,I have considered pushing it there to get the manifolds off. Run out of time & patience for today 
QBee said:
If you are taking it off the car to decat, you will need to put it in a vice while you hammer it out. You can hit it pretty hard without damaging the manifold itself. A long drill, the type you use for drilling right through walls, and a jemmy type crowbar, are useful. Progress will be slow until you get right throught it, then it speeds up.
If you don't want to decat, you can usually buy a replacement manifold for about £75. I would offer you the one I have, but it's drivers side. This pair are on EBay for £130 at the moment - put the reference 151464493885 into EBay search.
I am near Newark if you want to compare noisy Chimaeras when yours is fixed.
Thanks QBee, I would like that, mines already pretty loud, more so than the 5litre Griff I had previously, don`t know what a de-cat will do for it.I`m quite keen to get the engine bay temps down though, even on a summers day having the roof down is not much better, the heat from the engine just gets drawn into the interior.If you don't want to decat, you can usually buy a replacement manifold for about £75. I would offer you the one I have, but it's drivers side. This pair are on EBay for £130 at the moment - put the reference 151464493885 into EBay search.
I am near Newark if you want to compare noisy Chimaeras when yours is fixed.
Edited by QBee on Sunday 23 November 21:16
On a different track I was wondering if I will need special gaskets for the Y piece or can I use sealant, it`s a 93 pre-serp so the Y piece has bolts & not clamps.
Edited by hot metal on Sunday 23 November 22:10
ChimpOnGas said:
^^^^THIS^^^^
The problem is way more likely to be ignition related.
Remember there's little to be learned about the quality & strength of spark by observing it at atmospheric pressure. This is because the raised pressures under compression when the plug is fitted in the head can kill easily kill what looks like a reasonable spark out in the open.
I used to have an old Champion spark plug tester where you fitted an airline then raise the pressure while sparking the plug, it's amazing to see how easily you can extinguish it as the pressure increases.
I'd focus on the ignition side, start by getting rid of those completely unsuitable shrouded electrode 7 heat range plugs TVR fitted, replacing them with a projected electrode 6 from NGK (BPR6ES).
Then move onto the extenders which can often be a point of failure, replacement is the answer here although I have deleted mine altogether, but this does require extra protection of the HT lead ends.
If you haven't done so already replace the HT leads with something decent, then make your way to the distributor, replace the cap & the rotor arm with a new old stock original or a red one from the distributor doctor.
After that lot you may as well replace the coil too, go for a Bosch one from a Range Rover parts specialist, finish off by checking and adjusting your ignition timing using a strobe.
I bet you'll find your problem will disappear.
Will any of the above cause the manifold to glow red hot? Plugs & leads are less than a year old & decent stuff, the plugs are NGK. Same goes for the distributor cap & rotor arm, not sure about the quality of the latter though,.The problem is way more likely to be ignition related.
Remember there's little to be learned about the quality & strength of spark by observing it at atmospheric pressure. This is because the raised pressures under compression when the plug is fitted in the head can kill easily kill what looks like a reasonable spark out in the open.
I used to have an old Champion spark plug tester where you fitted an airline then raise the pressure while sparking the plug, it's amazing to see how easily you can extinguish it as the pressure increases.
I'd focus on the ignition side, start by getting rid of those completely unsuitable shrouded electrode 7 heat range plugs TVR fitted, replacing them with a projected electrode 6 from NGK (BPR6ES).
Then move onto the extenders which can often be a point of failure, replacement is the answer here although I have deleted mine altogether, but this does require extra protection of the HT lead ends.
If you haven't done so already replace the HT leads with something decent, then make your way to the distributor, replace the cap & the rotor arm with a new old stock original or a red one from the distributor doctor.
After that lot you may as well replace the coil too, go for a Bosch one from a Range Rover parts specialist, finish off by checking and adjusting your ignition timing using a strobe.
I bet you'll find your problem will disappear.
Edited by hot metal on Monday 24th November 21:33
Edited by hot metal on Monday 24th November 21:35
s p a c e m a n said:
I agree that fuel igniting in the exhaust would cause it to glow but I was of the impression that the car had only made it as far as the driveway when you observed this. Imo a blocked cat would heat up a lot quicker than unburnt fuel would, I've only seen unburnt fuel glow manifolds after driving.
This is correct, only on the left side too. What chimpongas says is very convincing though..............sod it 
One thing that is easy to check is the plug extention, I can try it without them briefly.
Edited by hot metal on Tuesday 25th November 20:27
Edited by hot metal on Tuesday 25th November 20:29
blitzracing said:
As COG says the combustion is in the manifold, but the crux of the matter is the catalyst is doing exactly what its designed to do and igniting unburnt fuel within its body to reduce the HC content of the exhaust, as part of the catalyst sweep cycle the ECU swings the mixture in normal running lambda cycle. Obviously it would not glow read hot if the amount of unburnt fuel was normal.
I have never known such an extreme reaction to what people are saying is a simple misfire, I want to believe this though.Edited by blitzracing on Tuesday 25th November 20:56
Mr Supercharged said:
I went to investigate a glowing exhaust manifold issue on my friends chimaera. We pulled out one of the spark plugs and it looked brand new, on further investigation the injector associated with that cylinder / spark plug had not been plugged in (at a well known TVR specialist) which was causing the lambda to read lean on that bank of cylinders. In an attempt to correct this the ECU will over fuel the remaining working injectors, the unburnt fuel then uses the the "free oxygen" from the cylinder not being provided with fuel to ignite and hey presto you have a very hot manifold in this primary. So, if you definitely have a good spark on that cylinder I would like to suggest that your injector is either not receiving a signal feed (not plugged in) or is faulty. Cheers.
I booked the car into garage early this year to investigate what I thought was overfueling, the smell of petrol out of the exhaust was quite strong.They faffed about with it a bit, changed the fuel filter, checked the pressure of the fuel system (ok) & reported that if anything it was running lean. I have not looked into this any further since as the car was running well enough although a bit thirsty at 12mpg around town (compare that to the 15mpg my previous Griffith 500 did) .Something in the above post rings a bell there
Mr Supercharged said:
where abouts are you in the UK, I'm travelling back home to gloucestershire tomorrow from lancashire. If you are on my way I will offer to look at it for you.
Hi, thanks I `m in the Nottm, Derby area, out of your way I think thanks anyway. Also I don`t think the leads have been swapped unless it happened overnight (Gremlins ??)ChimpOnGas said:
Mr Supercharged said:
I went to investigate a glowing exhaust manifold issue on my friends chimaera. We pulled out one of the spark plugs and it looked brand new, on further investigation the injector associated with that cylinder / spark plug had not been plugged in (at a well known TVR specialist) which was causing the lambda to read lean on that bank of cylinders. In an attempt to correct this the ECU will over fuel the remaining working injectors, the unburnt fuel then uses the the "free oxygen" from the cylinder not being provided with fuel to ignite and hey presto you have a very hot manifold in this primary. So, if you definitely have a good spark on that cylinder I would like to suggest that your injector is either not receiving a signal feed (not plugged in) or is faulty. Cheers.
Quality response, very interesting Relevant too
OP should pay attention here.
Mr Supercharged said:
Are both manifolds glowing or just one? If both are glowing and it is an injector fault that would indicate possibly that the driver in the ECU has failed since they are fired in pairs. Another trick is to use a stethoscope, cut the microphone / pancake off the end so you are just left with a tube and position it next to each injector and listen to confirm that it makes a clicking noise. This at least would confirm that the injectors are being cycled.
Just the left hand manifold, also the ecu has been checked out & given a clean bill of health.Well I put everything back together as it should be & started again. I tried firing `er up, started, ran badly & then stopped ,so no change. Spark to all the plugs though left bank seem weaker than the right. Tried a different coil, no better, not starting at all. Then I noticed the pump was no longer priming when I turned on the ignition, it had earlier in the day though. Checked for fuel at the line, no fuel (yes it has got some in )
Could it be the immobilizer ???
Could it be the immobilizer ???
blitzracing said:
The ECU needs a pulse from the coil to run the pump- you get this as you turn on the ignition, or when the amp switches the coil- so as you have been messing around with the coil, Id check you dont have a wire off at the coil.
Fair point, I did`nt put it back on myself ,a friend did it, I will check in the morningGassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff