Hot start problem
Discussion
The hot start problem has gone from very occasionally to every single time the engine is hot. I have to leave it for half an hour or bump start it.
Should I just buy the hot start kit or has anyone any other suggestions? I have checked the connection on the solenoid and the 100 amp fuse and they seem ok.
Should I just buy the hot start kit or has anyone any other suggestions? I have checked the connection on the solenoid and the 100 amp fuse and they seem ok.
ChimpOnGas said:
Lots on this if you do a search.
Some will tell you the problem exists purely because TVR failed to fit a dedicated relay in the starter solenoid circuit, while this was certainly a school boy error by TVR there is actually more at play.
Its important to understand the problematic starter solenoid circuit passes through the Meta immobiliser system, which houses two tiny relays itself. One relay is rated for a higher amperage than the other, TVR in their wisdom chose to run the low amp ECU circuit through the higher amp relay and the far higher amp starter solenoid circuit through the lower amp relay.
The result is the little Meta relay is overloaded, over time it's contacts become pitted stressing the little relay coil further which can result in complete failure.
Nine times out of ten this wiring mistake from TVR will be the true cause of the infamous "Hot Start" problem, and actually has very little to do with the lack of dedicated starter solenoid circuit relay which should have been fitted at the factory but merely to protect and prolong the life of the contacts inside your ignition switch from excessive amps.
You can buy a so called "Hot Start" kit from a company called ModWise, it is actually nothing more than a simple relay, some cable and some basic instructions. While it is a good idea to install a relay where TVR neglected to it may not solve your problem.
The reason is that the damage to the contacts inside the low amp Meta immobiliser has almost certainly already taken place, no amount of "Hot Start" kits can reverse that damage.
Unfortunately the Meta relays are buried (& potted) inside the immobiliser so replacement isn't really practical unless you're a skilled electronics engineer familiar with such work.
In practice you are left with three options:
1. Recruit a professional alarm installer who is familiar with the TVR setup and the errors TVR made when they fitted it and have them to replace the whole alarm system
2. Buy a new Meta immobiliser from Abacus Alarms who will guide you in it's installation and help you pair the new unit with your existing alarm unit
3. Bypass the immobiliser on the starter solenoid circuit so the immobiliser has no involvement whatsoever
Option one could cost as much as £600 but is the belt & braces and professional solution
http://www.hf-solutions.co.uk/tvr/4586285532
Option two is around £250 and is more or less plug & play but you will need to remove your dash top (not that tricky really)
http://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/alarmshop/index.php?a...
Option three may seem like a bodge but actually works perfectly, it is also more or less free to do as you're just cutting a wire or two and making some new connections.
Then there is always option four which is the ModWise Hot Start kit but as I've already explained it may not fix the problem, worse still it may temporarily mask the true underlying fault that could easily come back to haunt you one dark rainy night when you least need it.
I just present the real facts surrounding the so called "Hot Start" issue, how you choose to tackle the issue is up to you.
If you did decide to do the bypass you needn't worry about security because you're only bypassing the immoiliser on the starter solenoid circuit, the circuit that powers up the ECU and in turn the fuel pump (3 second priming pulse buzz you hear) continues to be controlled by your immobiliser.
After the bypass you will be able to crank the engine on the key even without disengaging the immobiliser, but the car still wont start because the ECU will remain dead until you hit your alarm fob and bring it alive.
Hope all this helps?
Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail, your information is very helpful. Some will tell you the problem exists purely because TVR failed to fit a dedicated relay in the starter solenoid circuit, while this was certainly a school boy error by TVR there is actually more at play.
Its important to understand the problematic starter solenoid circuit passes through the Meta immobiliser system, which houses two tiny relays itself. One relay is rated for a higher amperage than the other, TVR in their wisdom chose to run the low amp ECU circuit through the higher amp relay and the far higher amp starter solenoid circuit through the lower amp relay.
The result is the little Meta relay is overloaded, over time it's contacts become pitted stressing the little relay coil further which can result in complete failure.
Nine times out of ten this wiring mistake from TVR will be the true cause of the infamous "Hot Start" problem, and actually has very little to do with the lack of dedicated starter solenoid circuit relay which should have been fitted at the factory but merely to protect and prolong the life of the contacts inside your ignition switch from excessive amps.
You can buy a so called "Hot Start" kit from a company called ModWise, it is actually nothing more than a simple relay, some cable and some basic instructions. While it is a good idea to install a relay where TVR neglected to it may not solve your problem.
The reason is that the damage to the contacts inside the low amp Meta immobiliser has almost certainly already taken place, no amount of "Hot Start" kits can reverse that damage.
Unfortunately the Meta relays are buried (& potted) inside the immobiliser so replacement isn't really practical unless you're a skilled electronics engineer familiar with such work.
In practice you are left with three options:
1. Recruit a professional alarm installer who is familiar with the TVR setup and the errors TVR made when they fitted it and have them to replace the whole alarm system
2. Buy a new Meta immobiliser from Abacus Alarms who will guide you in it's installation and help you pair the new unit with your existing alarm unit
3. Bypass the immobiliser on the starter solenoid circuit so the immobiliser has no involvement whatsoever
Option one could cost as much as £600 but is the belt & braces and professional solution
http://www.hf-solutions.co.uk/tvr/4586285532
Option two is around £250 and is more or less plug & play but you will need to remove your dash top (not that tricky really)
http://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/alarmshop/index.php?a...
Option three may seem like a bodge but actually works perfectly, it is also more or less free to do as you're just cutting a wire or two and making some new connections.
Then there is always option four which is the ModWise Hot Start kit but as I've already explained it may not fix the problem, worse still it may temporarily mask the true underlying fault that could easily come back to haunt you one dark rainy night when you least need it.
I just present the real facts surrounding the so called "Hot Start" issue, how you choose to tackle the issue is up to you.
If you did decide to do the bypass you needn't worry about security because you're only bypassing the immoiliser on the starter solenoid circuit, the circuit that powers up the ECU and in turn the fuel pump (3 second priming pulse buzz you hear) continues to be controlled by your immobiliser.
After the bypass you will be able to crank the engine on the key even without disengaging the immobiliser, but the car still wont start because the ECU will remain dead until you hit your alarm fob and bring it alive.
Hope all this helps?
I think option 3 is the best option for me as I have no problem tackling it myself. i was thinking along these lines anyway.
Do you know if there is a wiring diagram or similar that I could use to get the details?
Thanks
AV8
Thanks for all the suggestions. I plan to do the solenoid mod at the weekend and see how it goes. It should be easy to tell if it works as it is happening all the time when hot.
I never tried holding the switch as suggested above but it has started with a bump start any time I tried it.
I never tried holding the switch as suggested above but it has started with a bump start any time I tried it.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I plan to do the solenoid mod at the weekend and see how it goes. It should be easy to tell if it works as it is happening all the time when hot.
I never tried holding the switch as suggested above but it has started with a bump start any time I tried it.
I never tried holding the switch as suggested above but it has started with a bump start any time I tried it.
OK, update for anyone that's interested.
I made up a bit of a loom with a relay and used the existing switched solenoid feed to trigger the relay and used the main supply to the starter as the power source, switched through the relay.
So far so good, got her up to temp and starts no problem so we will see how it goes.
I made up a bit of a loom with a relay and used the existing switched solenoid feed to trigger the relay and used the main supply to the starter as the power source, switched through the relay.
So far so good, got her up to temp and starts no problem so we will see how it goes.
blitzracing said:
Wiring wise simply remove the solenoid wire from the starter and use it to to feed the coil of a switching relay- the other side of the coil then goes to ground. The relay switch needs a 12 volt feed on one side - you can spur off the starter 12v feed from the battery , or off the output of the alternator that has a constant feed back to the battery, and then the other side of the switch then goes to the now vacated solenoid connection. You might want to consider a fuse in the 12v feed to the relay as well.
It was pretty much this that I did, and I can report that six months in I have never had a single re-occurence of the problem.Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff