T5 Gear Stick Length?

[ChimpOnGas]

Hi chaps,

Can someone confirm the length of the TVR gear stick as it dictates what S-10 short throw shifter kit I buy for my S-10 gearbox mod.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361389618264?_trksid=p20...

Or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281798332967?_trksid=p20...

This is what the seller says about stick length when selecting the right S-10 short throw shifter kit from him...

"Shifter throw length - VERY IMPORTANT: Shifters are simple levers, formed by the stick and stub - the overall length and fulcrum height determine the leverage ratio. Shifter throw is the gear-to-gear distance at the knob, determined by the internal transmission motion and shifter leverage ratio. As such, achieving a desired throw requires consideration of both the stick and stub - ie the stick length, and the fulcrum height of the stub. In a custom application there is no point in comparing the base against an OE unit if you are changing the stick length. To get a good throw, you have to choose the stick and base together as a set. This base model has a 3.03" fulcrum height, ideal for 10-12" stick length. Longer or shorter sticks require one of the other fulcrum options mentioned below (email to request); no one else offers these options but we do because that is the only way you can get the right throw length for whatever stick you choose."

Apparently the stick length measurement the seller needs should be taken from the bottom of the two mounting holes at the base of the stick to the top of the knob threads (so not exactly the stick's total vertical length).

Many thanks to anyone who can confirm this measurement.

[ChimpOnGas]

J400GED said:

Mine measures 10"

Hope this helps,

Ged

Thanks Ged,

I think the measurement the quick shift seller is asking for is intended for someone that already has their gear stick coming directly out of the T5 top plate (IE no TVR linkage).

So for us that translates to... from the top of the knob threads on the TVR stick to the bottom of the two mounting holes at the base of the original positioned stubby lever where TVR connected the rear end of their linkage.



I hope this makes sense??

Effectively you've got to draw an imaginary horizontal line from the bottom of the two mounting holes at the base of the original positioned stubby lever, to the TVR gear stick. If you mark the stick there you can then take the measurement between the top of the knob threads and your mark on the TVR gear stick.

Here's what I'm trying to explain (badly) in a picture which should be far easier to understand than all my old waffle



The final correct measurement will of course be less than your 10" but as we all know... size doesn't matter

Except when you're trying to buy the correct S-10 quick shift kit that is

[ChimpOnGas]

BoostedChim said:

This was my solution, I remade the lever from ali and used a mk4 golf drop link to give me a rubber bush to help with vibration & heat. I left plenty of thread to adjust it at both ends.

Nice job there Andy

[ChimpOnGas]

ChimpOnGas said:

Bump,

Can you help with this measurement Ged?

Thanks in advance, Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

J400GED said:

For you that translates into a measurement in the order of 6 inches.

Thanks Ged,

To be honest I'm quite surprised it comes out at just 6".

I was sure you'd come back to me with around an 7" to 8" measurement given your first measurement taken from the ball end was 10"?



Sorry to ask again but according to the seller of the Hurst S-10 quick shift kit this measurement is absolutely critical, is the 6" an estimate or did you take direct measurement mate?

Just keen to make 100% sure I don't order the wrong thing as the quick shift kit needs to be configured to my exact measurements and will be coming all the way from the US.

If you could drop a tape measure on it again and give me an exact metric figure in mm I'd really appreciate it.

Many thanks, Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

J400GED said:

Dave, the difference in the length without the gearknob is 1.5", so that takes you to 8.5".
The distance to the bottom of the lower hole is in the order of 2.5", leaving 6".

Of course, the accuracy between cars depends on the accuracy of TVRs manufacturing of the gear stick.

I won't be able to re-measure until the weekend, as I work away during the week.

Ah Ok, many thanks I'm very grateful for your help Ged.

So your initial 10" measurement was from the top of the gear knob not the top of the thread?

Then the distance from the bottom of the bottom hole to the tip of the ball end is 2.5".

Giving.... 10 - 1.5 - 2.5 = 6

I get it now.

Many thanks for all your help, I'll tell the seller of the quick shift kit to work on the following...

[ChimpOnGas]

BoostedChim said:

Dave, how are you going to attach the shifter mech to the gear lever? Could you not adjust the height there?

Ah, that's a really good point Andy

Obviously I need to move the stick position to the right of the gearbox centre line somehow anyway, actually can you confirm by how much exactly?



I like your fabricated offset adapter with it's clever rubber bush arrangement and I guess it also gives you a level of stick length adjustment too?

Perhaps I could be cheeky and ask you to make me a copy?

Seriously though, any help with the offset measurement would be gratefully received.

Here’s a picture of the g8ape gear lever adapter used by stevesprint when he converted his Griff to a T5.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

To me it looks like a perfect "off the shelf part" but I'm damned if I can find one for sale anywhere online?



You are well ahead of me on this S-10 mod Andy, so any help you can give me is much appreciated

Many thanks Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

Paul Cangialosi just came back to my shifter query email and he's telling me the quick shifter kits I've been looking at for the S-10 may not suit given my 6" stick measurement.

This is because the T5 with the S-10 tail housing was fitted to trucks with really long gear levers, so the S-10 quick shifter kits are typically designed with this long lever in mind.

On our already super short 6" TVR stick length one of the S-10 quick shift kits could easily result in a shift throw that's way to short.

Paul advised me to simply search out a shifter for a Camaro or Firebird, but I'm now wondering if the TVR one can simply be used on the S-10 tail housing

TBH I thought the bolt patterns were different, but perhaps I'm wrong on this?

Perhaps this is what I need after all?



http://www.ebay.com/itm/83-92-Camaro-Firebird-T-5-...

Boosted

[ChimpOnGas]

BoostedChim said:

Yeah I just re-used my orginal one. You could always swap it later to an aftermarket one if you wanted less throw. There are two bolt patterns Ford and Chevy, I'm pretty sure ours are the Chevy type. On the Ford ones the two front bolts are further from the shifter.

When I emailed g8ape he didn't have any gear lever adapters in stock, he gets them made up 5 at a time. Try him again now, you might have more luck. From one of those threads I think it was g8ape who said the adapter moves the stick 58mm to the right and 10mm back.

If g8ape hasn't got any instock let me know, I might be able to make another. My wife is due to give birth any day now so I don't want to promise something I might not be able to deliver for a while

Thanks mate, I've sent g8ape a PM, lets see what he comes back with.

Congratulation on your new addition, wishing you and your good lady a safe and successful birth

[ChimpOnGas]

Bassfiend229hp said:

Give me a week or so and I'll pop up and you can measure mine if you wish?

Phil

Cheers Phil,

The way I see it neither the centre line of the gearbox or the amount of offset needed will change from the current setup on the TVR linkage.

Surely therefore it wouldn't be that hard to just adapt the existing TVR dogleg bracket?



The existing TVR dogleg bracket just needs two locating holes in the correct place to bolt it up to the shifter, potentially you wouldn't even need to unbolt the original TVR gear lever from it?



Perhaps I'm over simplifying it as I'm sure Andy wouldn't have gone to all the trouble of fabricating his rubber bush bracket if the TVR one could have been simply adapted?

[ChimpOnGas]

BoostedChim said:

ChimpOnGas said:

Perhaps I'm over simplifying it as I'm sure Andy wouldn't have gone to all the trouble of fabricating his rubber bush bracket if the TVR one could have been simply adapted?

I did consider it but I decided against it just in case I needed to back to using the old linkage or sell it even. Also I knew I could make a version that was a lot lighter.

Makes sense Andy, and what you've created is better anyway

If you do get bored between all your paternal duties and fancy making me that adapter, I will make it worth your while.

As an update on my progress I've just received a tracking email to say my S10 tail housing is getting on the plane to fly to Heathrow, it looks like I should have it in under a week

I also spoke with Chris Rinehart of Core Shifters yesterday, and rightly or wrongly placed my order for a custom S10 Hurst quick shift base. TBH I'm not 100% sure if it's true but Chris was adamant the S10 shifter has some important differences so we ended up striking a deal.

http://www.core-shifters.com/collections/swap-base...

Furthermore, apparently the issue with all other S10 quick shifter kits out there is that they're (unsurprisingly) specifically designed for the S10 pickup, which because of it's bench seat and high up driving position has a very long gear stick indeed.

If you just use a standard S10 quick shift base on an application like the TVR with it's far shorter six inch gear stick the throw will be way too short, Chris Rinehart of Core Shifters solves this problem for the hot rod crowd who like to use the S10 tail housing in the States by building a custom quick shift base to suit various stick lengths.

The whole idea of commissioning this custom S10 Hurst quick shift base may in the end prove unnecessary but I've taken a £125.00 punt on it anyway, only time will tell if it's the way forward or a complete waste of money




As it stands these are the component parts I've selected for the project:

1. S10 tail housing: £85 delivered

2. Custom S10 Hurst quick shift base: £125 delivered

3. V8 Tuner 15lb flywheel: £300

4. Dogleg adapter to move the stick approximately 2.5" to the right: £TBC

5. Lloyd Specialist Development's guaranteed lighter but supercharger proven clutch: £TBC

6. SC-Power engine mounts (as mine are in need of replacement): £127.48

I'm hoping the combined improvements from all the above ingredients will give me a lovely light clutch and a super slick gear change which will compliment and enhance the (already excellent) way the car drives.

I've already taken the original millstone 30lbs flywheel down to 23lbs and it was a big improvement, I can only imagine what going down a further 8lbs will feel like, I expect she'll rev very nicely indeed I just hope I don't lose too much low speed tractability?

Well, here's hoping

[ChimpOnGas]

BoostedChim said:

You're missing the shorter shifter rod that lives in the top casing from your list or are you planning to drill and cut your existing one?

You could try John Reid, he might be able to supply one quicker than the states.

Ah, I hadn't thought about that

I'll try and source one from John, thanks for pointing it out

Question: Can my current shifter block just be moved onto the S10 shifter rod?


PS: Any news on your new arrival?

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 7th October 11:28

[ChimpOnGas]

Update...

To go with my brand new £85 S10 tail housing...



I've just purchased this S10 shifter rod from the US for £31 delivered to me in the UK.



Then added this bronze shifter cup to replace the standard plastic one...



Apparently by switching out the plastic cup for this aftermarket bronze one the gearbox feel becomes noticeably more direct.

I'm trying to eliminate all areas of play and wear to extract the very best from this S10 tail housing mod, with the box out I figured that's the time to make sure everything is absolutely as best as it can be before we put it all back together with the new lighter clutch and flywheel.

I still need one of these though...



Given the differences in the shifter lever on my custom Hurst quick shift base from Core Shifters I suspect it'll make more sense to fabricate one to suit?



I also have a feeling I'll need one of these to close the speedo pickup hole?




All these parts soon add up so I do hope it's all worth it?

Here's to a super slick gear shift and a feather light clutch in my TVR, well lets hope so

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 7th October 14:00

[ChimpOnGas]

bobfather said:

Sorry for jumping in, ChimpOnGas I've sent you a email via PH but had no response

Okay folks, back to gearboxes

Responded.

[ChimpOnGas]

BoostedChim said:

ChimpOnGas said:

Question: Can my current shifter block just be moved onto the S10 shifter rod?

PS: Any news on your new arrival?

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 7th October 11:28

Yes it will.

Nope, all quiet.

Great, thanks for the confirmation Andy.

My current shifter block will get fitted to my shorter S-10 shifter rod that's winging it's way across the pond as we speak, my existing detent plate will also be relocated to its new home in my S-10 tail housing

As it stands I think it makes sense to reuse the TVR gear lever with it's adapter bracket to ensure the stick comes out of the tunnel in exactly the right place, I'll probably end up just cutting the ball end off and bolting the whole assembly (with stick) to my Core Shifter.

However, by the look of it I'm going to need the speedo blanking plug as it appears to be an open hole on my new S-10 tail housing?



I'm still not convinced I needed to have bought the S-10 Core Shifter Base (Hurst type), there seem to be two basic shifter base types for the T5 (rectangular & square), both the existing TVR one and the S-10 one are the square type so the TVR one could easily be reused in the S-10 tail housing.



Oh well, the Core Shifter and Hurst Billet Plus 2 it's derived from gets well reviewed, apparently it does give a more positive feel, the stronger self centering spring effect makes up shifts from second to third easier and more direct. Only time will tell if it was worth the money, I still think the biggest improvement will come from deleting the TVR linkage.

The other little addition that may or may not help is the brass cup that replaces the original plastic type, again this seemingly insignificant and cheap to buy part gets well reviewed and is considered by many who know the T5 box well to be a no-brainer addition given the low cost vs shift quality improvement equation.



I now just need to be patient as I await all my gearbox goodies from the good ol US od A

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 8th October 12:05

[ChimpOnGas]

ChimpOnGas said:

BoostedChim said:

ChimpOnGas said:

Then added this bronze shifter cup to replace the standard plastic one...

That looks good, I've got a small amount of play in mine. I did look at replacing the plastic bush but it wasn't cheap. Where did you source this one?

ChimpOnGas said:

Available on EBay yet again..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tremec-Borg-Warner-T5-T45-...

Or cheaper here...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-GM-Dodge-Borg-Warner-...

I actually bought mine direct from the Hawkes Third Generation website, you can pay with PayPal which gives further protection and I got an email this morning to say it had already been shipped.

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/tremec-borg-warn...

I guess at $22.95 it's not what you would call cheap for what it is but I figured a tiny bit of play in my original plastic one will multiply itself quite dramatically at the business end of the stick. It also gets well reviewed and from what I've been reading its considered a no-braner mod by those in the know

ChimpOnGas said:

Given the differences in the shifter lever on my custom Hurst quick shift base from Core Shifters I suspect it'll make more sense to fabricate one to suit?

Yeah I thought that, ideally you need to fit it and see how high it sits as the ball is higher in those.

ChimpOnGas said:

Indeed, I think I'm taking a bit of a gamble and the guy from Core Shifters was keen to point out each custom application will be a little different, in the end I just took a punt on their S-10 model but got them to custom build the fulcrum point and ball end length for a 6" stick application. Only time will tell if the Core Shifter is an improvement over the TVR one or not?

ChimpOnGas said:

I also have a feeling I'll need one of these to close the speedo pickup hole?

Was that from the states as well? I had to remove the boss that this bolts into to fit my bracket. I had to come up with an alternative method to hold the speedo sensor in, although the o-ring does hold it.

ChimpOnGas said:

Well actually I haven't bought it yet, I want to take a close look at the S-10 tail housing I'm getting first but it looks likely I will end up needing it.

When I'm ready I'll be buying it from these guys...

http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/5_speed_prices....

Scroll down to the bottom of the page and you'll see it, for just $16 it looks like a no-brainer.

Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

Update!

This little fella just ordered.



An expensive (for what it is) solution to a simple problem of the open speedo hole in the S-10 housing, I probably should have just bought an old T5 speedo drive head and cut it down but what the hell.

In for a penny, in for a pound... at least I've know ordered everything I need now.

I think

Probably would have been cheaper if I'd just bought a used S-10 tail housing with all the bits included rather than the brand new housing I went for.

Oh well, it's still worked out at just £140 for the lot which I think is reasonable

Hang on a minute, do I need a tail housing end seal now

[ChimpOnGas]

Sardonicus said:

I would of whacked a core plug in there Dave.

Ha ha, you're absolutely right Simon, and I did think about that

My other ideas included...

This...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181544126030

Or this...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321673028321

Or this with an 'O' ring on it...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321827366611?var=5107601...

But I guess I'm just getting lazy and soft so I simply bought what I was sure would fit.

Woe be me

[ChimpOnGas]

Sardonicus said:

he proper one looks trick though

It does mate, but of course nobody will ever see it

[ChimpOnGas]

dixie6789 said:

Hi. Could you tell me where I can get this housing please? I have a Cossie box and the gear stick is in the wrong place. Will put my long long tail on Ebay.

Thanks Mark

Hi Mark,

Check out the original PH discussion, as you'll see most of us have purchased our used S10 tail housings from eBay USA, here's a link to the post....

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=14...

The Chevrolet S10 pickup that used this tail housing is a very ordinary work-a-day vehicle from the early 1990's, it sold in huge numbers in the States but was never sold in Europe, so you'll need to search eBay USA for a used part.

While S10 production numbers were high these tail housings seem to be becoming harder to find, so with demand from hot rodders and engine swappers using the BW T5 box still strong, MDL in the States have started recasting them. A new MDL S10 type tail housing can now be had for $675.00, by the time you've paid shipping and taxes it will likely cost you roughly £600 at today's exchange rates

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/fron...

However, if you search eBay USA you'll see original S10 tail housings still come up for sale from time to time at reasonable money, they usually sell for $300, by the time you've paid shipping and taxes this equates to £230 at today's exchange rates.

Here's one.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/S10-T5-World-Class-Rear-T...

And another....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/92-S10-World-Class-T5-Tra...

I was lucky and snagged my S10 tail housing for what amounted to just £85 Sterling, also consider using Paul Cangialosi of http://www.5speeds.com/, Paul has all the knowledge and parts to help you make the conversion work.

Finally, a good summary of the mod can be found here on Mathew Poxton's blog....

https://matthewpoxon.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/t5-g...

Hope this helps, Dave.