Modern Porsche - Vs - TVR Chimaera

[ChimpOnGas]

Ok on the face of it a bit of foolishness from me here, but it's a more realistic idea than you think

Here goes.....

Option One: Buy a new Porsche 718 2.5 Boxster Roadster S for £51,105

Or...

Option Two: Buy a decent 18 year old 4.0 litre TVR Chimaera for £14,000?


So how do the costs of ownership in year one stack up?

Expense	Porsche 718	TVR Chimaera
Road Fund Tax	£230	£235
Insurance	£825	£285
MoT	£0.00	£40.00
Fuel - Pence per mile	19.3p	20.2p
Servicing	£510.00	£550.00
Depreciation in year one	-£12,326.00	+£800
0-60	4.6 seconds	4.8 seconds
Top speed	177mph	153mph

So taking a modest annual mileage of 6,000 in year one the new Porsche is going to cost me £15,000.49, or just over £1,000 more than buying the TVR Chimaera outright!

The TVR on the other hand will cost £1,471.20 or a massive £13,530.00 annual saving over the Porsche, again this saving being big enough to enough to buy a TVR Chimaera outright!

And I haven't even factored in the lease or loan repayments on the Porsche and a straightforward bank loan of £14,000 to buy the TVR (both over four years), if I did the Porsche would cost at least a further £12,000 a year to run than the Chimaera

So do I opt out of my company car scheme and use my allowance to buy/lease a new Porsche 718 2.5 Boxster Roadster S or do I press 'Ol Gasbag' into service as my company car and save a small fortune

Of course I already have the TVR and 'Ol Gasbag' consistently delivers an average fuel economy of £0.10p per mile, so that makes it work out even cheaper still

A £25,000 saving in year one is what I'm predicting, whoever said TVRs are impractical and costly to own clearly hasn't looked closely at what people seem happy to throw away every year just to put a new Porsche on the drive.

In cost terms the TVR wins hands down and by a massive margin, 'Ol Gasbag' becoming my new company car.. it's a no-brainer boys

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 29th April 14:10

[ChimpOnGas]

T4NGO said:

Or you could use those same 'blinkered, convince the mrs man-maths' and get a sag lol no savings, but your daily hack is a sag. i am sure thats what most of us did lol

There's some genuine fiscal facts in there mate, admittedly it's the depreciation that makes the biggest impact but if you think depreciation isn't real money then just wait until year three comes around.

At that point most people just roll their balloon payment finance package into their next new car, the monthly payments stay affordable and they get a brand new car.

That's a great deal right... Is it fek!!!

People are so short sighted on these balloon payment deals and fail to understand one day they will need to clear the final payment, and after many balloon payment roll overs over many years that's when the reality of financing new cars in this way becomes a frightening reality.

People who turn a blind eye to depreciation are the real blinkered "Man Maths" experts, the guy that chose the TVR option will actually be revealed as the smart one at the end of the day and the far richer one too

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 29th April 15:08

[ChimpOnGas]

T4NGO said:

I was agreeing with you???

I know, but I needed to get it off my chest anyway

TVR aside, any well maintained classic used on a daily basis makes for a cheap car to own.

If it's over 40 years old you don't even pay road fund tax!

Practically, rust, reliability, parts availability and performance in keeping with modern traffic are the key stumbling blocks to overcome. But if you can find a classic that covers those bases you're definitely onto a winner.

An Eagle E-Type would do nicely but starting at £250k they are...erm a little pricey, old 911 Porsches make for good usable classics but have you seen the price these days

A Frontline MGB is another practical and brilliantly improved classic for the modern age but again you need the thick end of £80k to sign up.

So what if you like old school drivers cars, you want to beat the painful depreciation yet you need something that stops and goes in a way that wont embarrass you on modern roads, what if you cant afford the wonderful selection of improved classics available these days?

Well that's where a TVR Chimaera comes in, at £14k you get a modern classic you can use every day that will work out massively cheaper than any new and boring Euro Box.

Be different, enjoy a real car and save yourself a packet.. A subtly enhanced and well maintained Chimaera is not only the best value classic on the market today, when compared with the latest Porsche 917 its also a cheap sports car to own & run full stop!

The 18 year old TVR is just as fast, just as economical, and just as practical as the latest 2016 Porsche, so if that's progress you can keep it

[ChimpOnGas]

Johnniem said:

It's a really tough call fella; I loved both and would have either in a shot but the right car for me would probably be the Pork, if my head were in charge, or the TVR if my heart were in charge. One thing for me would be the fact that the TVR community are just the best bunch you can imagine. I have decided....ignore the money and get the Chim. Heart wins!

Right choice, anyone can own a Porsche, you just get your cheque book out and buy one.

There are thousands out there and while you cant deny the engineering superiority there's zero exclusivity with the Porsche, we all see them every day so they are effectively camouflaged by their very ubiquitous nature.

In an age where where machines just work and seldom need fixing, where if it goes wrong you throw it away and buy a new one or pay someone else to sort it for you.. our masculinity is under threat!

Back in the day when men where men if the family car went wrong Dad bought a Hains manual and got his spanners out to fix it, and so the TVR forces you back to that time where the man is under the car on Sunday while the woman cooks the Sunday roast. Unfashionable yes, politically incorrect.. definitely.

But wrong? .... No Way!

Choose a TVR and you're doing things differently, you're taking a risk but in theory the rewards are high, the truth is TVRs are so frustratingly close to greatness you are almost forced to follow the upgrade path in the hope you can eventually make the car what you know in your heart lurks beneath.

This is the beginning of two emotions...

1. Frustration

2. A bond with the car so strong it becomes a relationship

Just like a good woman your TVR will please and frustrate you in equal measures, it will force you to spend on her and only reward you every now and again.

But that's the magic, you'll never have such a relationship with your Porsche, it will work brilliantly but in doing so can never display the special flawed charisma of the petulant but beguiling TVR.

I started all this by saying the TVR makes great financial sense, and now I'm eulogising over the much deeper rewarding personality and ownership experience delivered by the TVR.

In summary the TVR is actually both good sense for the pocket and great sense for the heart, why would anyone choose a Porsche over that?

I'll tell you why... Because they are scared that's why, they know in they aren't they aren't really man enough to own one and if it did let them down one dark night they would probably end up crying at the side of the road like a frightened school girl!

There I said it, now tell me I'm wrong

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 29th April 19:09

[ChimpOnGas]

Ok, time to inject some reality and common sense here...

I have to admit there are many occasions where my modern company car is the default go-to option, on a frosty morning when I'm feeling tired and find myself late for an important meeting taking the TVR couldn't be furthest from my mind.

Saying that if I lost my job and the company car that goes with it, I certainly wouldn't bother buying a daily hack while I found gainful employment in my next sales role.. that lets face it would invariable come with another company car.

For that period I'd be quite happy to press my TVR into everyday use, I've already improved it's reliability and practicality in every area, and with LPG economy delivering the petrol cost equivalent of 45-50mpg the one thing that makes running a standard Chimaera painful has been completely kicked into touch.... so much so that I'd need a diesel Golf to equal its fuel economy!

I bought my Chimaera for many reasons but mostly for me it's about my love for traditional British sports cars and the driving experience the offer. I've been around traditional classics for years, while for me they deliver the ultimate involving and charismatic driving experience on the right day, it has to be said on so many levels they can also be a deeply frustrating & disappointing on modern roads amongst modern traffic.

In the last 10 years we've seen a significant rise in the "Improved Classic" idea, a concept I'm a massive fan of, but what we need to accept is the starting point is typically something from the 60's that is then extensively improved in performance, braking, handling & reliability.

Lets not forget 60's classic sports cars aren't exactly what you'd call affordable these days, for example I've always considered the Triumph TR4 (while not exactly fast) to be a nice practical classic British sports car... but it seems you'll need well over £20k to buy a decent one these days. A 60's Elan is another great little practical classic (all be it a little cramped inside) but at £30k plus for something half decent the inflated classic values themselves are making everyday use impractical, I'd start to really worry about damage and theft so much so it would really detract from my pleasure.

If you think about it the first manufacturers to lead the way with this "Improved Classic" concept were Morgan & TVR in the 1990's when there was a big increase in classic car interest in the UK, this was actually a more of a twist of fate because both Morgan & TVR were financially forced to follow the build process of old so the end results were just old designs that needed to be subtly updated to remain even remotely saleable... even to the eccentrics that chose them.

TVR of course did a much better job of it than Morgan, but only because Morgan were selling on a nostalgic design that had features hard wired into it that could never be improved, things like the cramped cockpit, poor ergonomics, leaky & draughty hood design, rubbish windscreen wipers ect ect.

TVR on the other hand while doggedly continuing with the old school tubular trellis back bone chassis design at least had the option to update and elevate the creature comforts out of the dark ages. This combined with the use of the reliable Rover V8, fuel injection, the BW T5 gearbox, strong BTR LSD diff and a host of other proven elements from large manufactures with proper development and manufacturing budgets was a recipe that actually allowed TVR to nick a few sales from Porsche in the mid 90's.

When I came to choosing my next classic some six years ago the way I saw it I could either buy something from the 60's (getting expensive even then) and spend another big wedge of money upgrading it to meet my needs, or buy a TVR Chimaera which is effectively an old school drivers car that already had 95% of the upgrades as standard. As someone who expects to actually use his classic car rather than polish and park it at car shows the Chimaera was a no-brainer for me.

Lets say I'd bought an E-Type, the first upgrades I would have embarked on would have been...

1. Stick a T5 gerbox in it to get shot of the terrible four speed box

2. Upgrade the shockingly poor brakes

3. Upgrade the handling with modern dampers

4. Fit fuel injection

So six years ago I could have bought the E-Type coupe for £45k but would have then chucked another £15k into it to make it usable and safe on modern roads, I would have ended up with something very special and reasonably practical but would have spent the thick end of £60k, saying that it would probably be worth roughly £80k today.

Ok so the TVR is never going to have the historical cachet of the Jag but make no mistake my Chimaera definitely delivers the old school driving experience I love so much, its just it came with all the above improvements in place as standard. As a starting point a standard Chimaera represents truly astonishing value for anyone looking for a usable classic, even more so now 60's stuff is so expensive, the upgrade head start the TVR offers already puts you so far ahead of the game for so much less money you can easily afford to throw a few more quid at your it to make a Chimaera what I believe becomes the ultimate "improved classic".

The Modern Porsche - Vs - TVR Chimaera question I posed when I started this topic is not really a fair comparison at all, however the fact I can make the comparison at all and it not seem completely ridiculous is testament to how good the TVR is.

The truth is we need to view the Chimaera for what it is, a brilliant already improved old school drivers car, if you then compare it with more appropriate rivals like an E-Type, 60's Elan, or Austin Healey it becomes immediately apparent what a bargain the TVR is.

The fact I'd quite happily make it my everyday drive if my company car situation was to change is a praise indeed for such a niche market low volume sports car that lets face it was built some 20 years ago

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 2nd May 12:03

[ChimpOnGas]

QBee said:

ChilliWhizz said:

Dave, are you going through some kind of crises mate? Questioning previously made life choices is a sure sign of mid or late life anxiety.... If I can help in any way pm me.. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be there for you....
Always here to help,
Chilli....

I think he has just spent some time in Panama, questioning the meaning of life, women and hats....

[ChimpOnGas]

Brerabit said:

I don’t know quite what it is about my Chimaera but not only do people appear to have a soft spot for it - they seem to respect it - well done PW. I don’t know how much was down to genius, luck or sheer bloody mindedness but you got it so close that refining it is not just a labour of love - but almost an obligation.

The first thing PW did when he took over was to start phasing out the Wedge models, iconic as they were they were also only aesthetically fashionable for a very narrow window of time when compared with other designs.

PW was a classic car fan at heart, and a classic car fan that found himself running a low volume car company during the biggest classic car boom to date, it really shouldn't be a surprise to any of us that he rushed the "S" model into production by recycling and adapting the old "M" body moulds.

Very soon the expensive to build and now very unfashionable Wedge was discontinued, the classic car boom continued and the "S" hit a marketing bullseye, but it was a rush job so while PW was happy to continually develop and improve the model it would seem clear his objective was take the good from the "S" but start with a clean piece of paper to properly remove the bad.

The Griffith & Chimaera models are often touted as the landmark models for TVR and that's certainly true, but the real landmark car for TVR was the "S" because it showed the way back towards the traditional sports car look the public wanted and so provided the profits that allowed the Griff & Chim to be born. The commercials don't lie, for without the "S" success there quite simply would have been no more TVR.

If you look at the V8-S it's pretty clear PW and his team were using it as a test bed for what was to come, so sticking to the tried and tested traditional sports car theme that proved so successful with the "S" so was born the Griffith...

Er hang on a minute, that's not right is it, while under the skin the Griffith was an updated and developed for the modern age old school design it's looks were very forward thinking. So PW with his love for things more traditional looking and his business brain telling him to follow the successful recipe of the former "S" so created the Griffith's more curvy sister the Chimaera.

The rest is history, not only were all the limitations of the "S" removed in a stroke but the Chimaera delivered a prettier and more traditionally styled car that appealed to a much larger audience than the somewhat intimidating (to many buyers) and less practical Griffith.

So by following his instincts and personal preferences for the traditional classic sports cars of old, by taking the sales success of the "S" and developing it into something much much better using the clean sheet approach PW gave TVR their most successful model by a huge margin that was never repeated.

Indeed it was the Chimaera that allowed the development of the models that followed for without the Chimaaera TVR would have been dead in the water trying unsuccessfully to survive on the rather limited sales of their Griffith & Cerbera models. Even small production companies like TVR need a certain level of volume to generate sufficient profit to stay alive, but more importantly they need the profits to re-invest in the next model that most come to sustain sales in a competitive market.

PW wanted (even needed) to make more of the new models than ever before both to keep pace with the competition but also because he clearly wanted to become a proper car producer and to get away from the parts bin heritage, of course proper car producers make their own major components especially the engine which in many respects defines a sports car and it's brand. This as we know is where things went very wrong for TVR but the same history also allows us to understand why the Chimaera was so successful in its day and equally importantly points us to why its the most reliable and painless to own TVR to own by far.

Quite simply the Chimaera was the last and so best developed TVR that still used an engine from a major manufacturer with a decent development budget and also the last model before TVR tried to get too clever with the electronics. The Chimaera itself has a number school boy wiring mistakes so what the hell made them think Doris could wire up a Cerbera and reliably make all those little control units that sit in the boot is totally beyond me.

In summary the Chimaera was the best developed TVR using proven components before PW tried to get too clever, or at least before he tried to introduce designs that were too clever & complex for the limited skills many of his workforce possessed. If you then consider it was by far the best selling TVR ever we are left with enough supply to keep the values down compared with the other lower production models of the 90's & 2ks.

And as we all know "supply & demand" is the key driver of values meaning in this case the problematic Cerbera, the less reliable speed six "T" cars and the less practical Griffith command stronger money. So for the smart amongst us that chose the Chimaera we get a more reliable, more practical and less costly to own car we can easily repair ourselves at a significant saving over the other TVR models.

For these reasons as it was when new in the 90's it is today, the best value and safest way to get into the TVR brand by far!



NB: The "Panama Plague" which is what I'm calling the nasty virus I imported from Central America has left me completely incapacitated and so bored I find myself writing all the above bull on PH. Here's to a speedy recovery

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 2nd May 22:13

[ChimpOnGas]

OleVix said:

Both Brerabit and Chimpondave, thank you for those words, I'ts exactly what we love and what makes the Chim our "nobrainer" choice. The Chimaera gets you into rare sportscars-territory without breaking the bank. The smiles per pound is unbeatable!

Chimpondave

Brilliant Ole, love it

[ChimpOnGas]

Brerabit said:

‘Anaesthetically fashionable’

Smell Chucker at it's breast