TVR Parts Drop Links

[ChimpOnGas]

Hi guys, I'm researching drop links and more and more I find myself agreeing with this statement from Simon....

Sardonicus said:

Rose joints have no place on a road car IMO every one I have come into contact with as been worn/play inc dust booted ones and I am not just on about TVR cars you cannot have any movement in these things without noise and I am not willing to put up with that rattling and why would I? I don't mind harder less compliment suspension but don't do rattles just my cents worth I cant see rose joints having no benefit whatsoever over ball-jointed links (i.e Civic/Accord kit) neither have give like the stock rubber ones.

I have Leven rose jointed links and they made a massive improvement when I first fitted them, but I'm about to embark on a project to completely eliminate all my suspension noises and leaking rear dampers aside I'm pretty sure some of them are coming from my Leven links, so I'm now tentatively looking into alternatives to rose joints.

Has anyone tried the TVR Parts drop links?





Racetech now seem to offer the same thing too....



Are these really just Honda drop links sold at a big mark up?

I'm happy to look at the cheaper Honda drop link solution but only if someone can reassure me with a link to where I can buy exactly the right ones, I need be 100% sure they will fit perfectly first time with no messing about. If there's any fitment uncertainty at all then paying a bit more at a TVR parts specialist to be sure I'm getting the right part that fits & works properly would probably be a my preferred option.

Who's using this type of drop link on their Chimaera and how are you getting on with them?

Do they really eliminate those annoying drop link related noises?

Thanks, Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

Thanks Alun

In the below post Andy (BoostedChim) talks of BluePrint ADH28507 & ADH28506 Honda Accord 1998-03 links fitting the front of his 1997 car perfectly, which does make me think they should work on my very late 1996 Chimaera too....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Right at the bottom of the post there's further talk that Mk4 Mondeo rear drop links may well fit the rear of a Chimaera? A bit of researching reveals the Mk4 Mondeo links are 180mm in length, so I'll be having a measure up tomorrow when I whip my rear Gaz Gold Pros off in preparation for the rebuild work I've booked them in for at the Gaz factory next week.

I am super cautious about these non-standard parts but it's hard to ignore the price difference, I stand to spend £130 for the full set of four links from Racetech Direct or just £50 for quality German made alternatives from Febi Bilstein.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351588553131

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351588580801



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311492643294



It's hard not to be tempted when it's £50 vs £130, the difference of £80 actually pays for the rebuilding of my rear dampers. With this in mind the alternatives idea deserves to be investigated further...

What I might do is buy one of each of the above and see if they fit, the EBay vendor offers a 30 day return policy which means the most I'll ever lose is the return postage if they don't work out.

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Saturday 10th September 23:59

[ChimpOnGas]

ClassiChimi said:

Good luck mate with getting your car rolling smooth as silk,
I'd really like to try some real quality shocks, I'd like a variable Spring on the rears, hardening progressively.

This is where I'm at, I've even started looking at Intrax suspension which is expensive but meant to be the mutt's nuts, for about £500 less I could buy Dom's Nitron comfort kit but both options represent a big outlay with no real guarantees I'll achieve what I'm looking for... which is a great handling TVR with a nice compliant ride over our shocking UK roads where surface quality just seems to get worse and worse every year.

When I converted the car to LPG I rather foolishly did nothing with the rear spring rates, the conversion adds roughly 50kg over the rear axle which I discovered actually has a positive effect on the car's handing & traction but I soon found out the 325lb rear springs needed uprating in line with the extra weight. I fitted a 400lb set which totally solved the problem but it was probably done bit too late to save the rear dampers.

The car now has 400lb springs on all four corners which actually works way better than I ever imagined it would, but while I was still running the lighter 325lb rear spring rates the Gaz Gold Pro did suffer a few rather dramatic bottoming out events which properly put them through their paces and eventually resulted in the N/S rear damper blowing its seals. I knew this before I set out on my summer Euro tour but the fully laden two week 1,800 mile run around France finished the weeping damper off good and proper and it's now knocking like a man buried alive.

For now I've decided to work with what I have and get the fundamentals sorted rather than throw a heap of cash at fancy set of Intrax suspension even though I'm still super tempted by it. When I discovered Gaz will rebuild my rear dampers as a pair for just £80 all in including carriage I decided to take this option and spend my money on things like more road orientated drop links, new metalastic wishbone bushes, top/bottom steering joints, new track rod ends ect ect, I'll then finish it all off with a proper full geometry adjustment over at Topcats Racing.

My thinking is this should all make a big improvement in itself, I can then add the Intrax kit Warren is offering me sometime next year, TBH it makes no sense to fit expensive coil overs to a suspension and steering system that has other fundamental wear issues so these elements have to be my initial points of focus.

Perhaps I'm getting old, perhaps what I want from the car is changing, but mostly I just think it's down to the fact I've developed 'Ol Gasbag's' low speed engine characteristics to levels of smoothness I never thought possible. The lack of suspension refinement I was once happy to accept now shouts out at me as I trickle through town in 4th at 25mph on the merest whiff of throttle with the engine purring at 1,500rpm, this effortless progress means the banging & crashing ride quality is now starting to spoil my enjoyment of the car.

I know the car will never have the compliant ride of a Lotus Evora but surely a Chimaera can be made a lot better than it is? Let me get my fundamental points of wear all sorted first and I'll see where I can develop it from there...

The custom built (to my car) high end but road focussed set up being proposed to me by the highly regarded team at Intrax suspension is definitely on the wish list. If Intrax is good enough for the Areal Atom and is the suspension manufacturer choice of Radical and many others, perhaps Intrax have the expertise to make the finest handling Chimaera that's also nice and compliant to drive over Britain's appalling road surfaces, they're certainly doing their best to convince me they can.

Watch this space folks

[ChimpOnGas]

900T-R said:

ChimpOnGas said:

The custom built (to my car) high end but road focussed set up being proposed to me by the highly regarded team at Intrax suspension is definitely on the wish list. If Intrax is good enough for the Areal Atom and is the suspension manufacturer choice of Radical and many others, perhaps Intrax have the expertise to make the finest handling Chimaera that's also nice and compliant to drive over Britain's appalling road surfaces,

Mine probably is right there (it was the subject of a tech feature I did for a trade magazine where Intrax did a full assessment and set up back in 2008), but truth be told I needed the expensive Anti-Roll Control option upgrade to get the high speed stability and turn-in response to go with the smoothness, progressiveness and strong traction the dampers (using lowish spring rates) afforded. Total cost: the best part of four grand - but in fairness it did totally transform the feel of the car from 'a bit iffy' to 'drive it anywhere with a big grin'.

I know Eric, I really really want Intrax on my car as I'm sure I'll love it, but there's always something more important in my life to spend £4,000 on. Topcats Racing have worked with Intrax in the past and Warren is on first name terms with Henk Thuis, last time I was at Topcats Warren put a call into Henk to discuss my road only requirement and it was suggested the best recipe for my specific requirements needn't include the expensive anti-roll control option.

There was talk of £1,700, perhaps £2k fitted including a full geometry set up which is probably about £500 more than if I gave the car to Dom at Powers Performance and asked him for the same using his Nitron comfort kit.

http://www.powersperformance.co.uk/store/slug/nitr...

TBH I doubt I'll ever spend £4k on my car's suspension, it's not a question having the money it's more that it's an amount I simply can't justify to myself no matter how good the results might be. To my way of thinking there's no getting away from it (and don't take this the wrong way) spending £4k on Chimaera suspension it a bit nuts, so back in the real world the question I'm asking myself is will spending £2k on having Intrax suspension fitted to my Chimaera be worth £500 more than Dom's Nitron comfort kit?

While I'm trying to find an answer to the Intrax vs Nitron question I need to be honest with myself about where I'm at right now, and the answer is I have some serious wear in my current set up that urgently needs addressing so I can continue to use and enjoy the car in comfort and safety. It makes way more sense to me to sort out the fundamental issues before spending a fortune on a set of fancy coil overs?

To put this into perspective, here's my N/S rear Gaz Gold Pro I removed yesterday.





And here's my Leven rose jointed ARB drop links after six years of hard use...



The rubber boots have split allowing water in and trapping it around the rose joint causing corrosion, as the corroded rose joint moves about itself rapid wear is inevitable. With the links on the bench I took a short video which I'll share along with some more photos once I've got them off my phone, suffice to say they are totally shot.

With my rear Gaz Gold Pros rebuilt and a set of the OEM type drop links fitted I'm hoping for some good improvements for a minimal outlay, I can then look at addressing the slight vagueness from the front end which I suspect will demand new track rod ends and new top & bottom joints as a minimum, so my immediate objective is to get all the fundamentals sorted at a reasonable cost before laying £1,500 - £2,000 on the table for fancy coil overs only to then discover everything else on the steering and suspension is worn out.

[ChimpOnGas]

900T-R said:

ChimpOnGas said:

To my way of thinking there's no getting away from it (and don't take this the wrong way) spending £4k on Chimaera suspension it a bit nuts

My take on it: if you're on a budget improving a Griff or Chim, spend it all on suspension. If your budget is larger, spend some more on suspension. If your budget is larger than the cost of the best available suspension, then you might want to start spending on other stuff...

The basic limitation on these cars is that you have a light car on a smallish footprint (especially wheelbase) with limited suspension travel and a bendy chassis. It needs all the help it can get and simply stiffening things up will serve to highlight the issues.

The basic Intrax kit was great in that the car now drove over potholes instead of falling into them, felt much more composed on less than billiard table smooth roads, had much stronger and more consistent traction and wouldn't swing its a**e about at the slightest provocation. All good. But the basic issues of the car feeling unstable in fast bends (like the ones joining motorways) and the turn-in response being a bit soft and imprecise still stood. It was only when the ARC kit was fitted that I felt the limitations of the chassis were transcended to a degree, taking the car to a new level - which is something brake, engine & management upgrades don't really do.

No one is disagreeing with you Eric, but £4k on a set of coil overs for a Chimaera

Really?? £4k!!!

I like spending money on my TVR and I'm sure spending £4k on a lovely set of the best Intrax suspension will transform my car, but can I spend £1,500 - £2,000 and get 90% of the way there? I suspect I can, now take another look at what just came off my car, one very blown Gaz Gold pro and a set of totally shot drop links, don't tell me I need to go spending £4k to enjoy a massive improvement on what I have now

Back to reality, it's time for me to get the suspension working properly before I go dreaming about fancy Intrax kit..

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 12th September 10:40

[ChimpOnGas]

Not sure if people can view this video link on FB but here goes...

https://www.facebook.com/dave.byron.313/videos/120...

The point is the boots trap water which causes the joints to corrode, this accelerates wear rapidly so having boots actually reduces the joint life rather than extending it as you might think. I probably should have filled them with grease which I did consider at the time but never did for some reason.

And here's another shot of the knackered drop link that shows from the centre of the pivot point to the lower washer that supports the lower bush is 70mm.



When trying to find an alternative rear drop link I would have thought this 70mm is the more important measurement rather than just saying the whole thing is 140mm long in total?

The important measurement is surely the distance between the mounting plate on the wishbone to the centre of the hole in the anti roll bar, basically my measured 70mm plus the thickness of the lower rubber bush, this gives us the critical working length of the alternative drop link we're looking for.

I don't have this measurement for either the Mk3 or Mk4 Mondeo links but my guess is both will be different to what's required on a Chimaera, it does seem however people are having success using the Honda Accord 1998-03 front links so maybe the answer is to use these and buy the rears from one of the TVR parts specialists?

It's still a good saving until someone can find some alternative rears that definitely fit perfectly on a Chimaera, the first of us to find the answer wins the respect of the Piston Heads TVR massive

[ChimpOnGas]

An anti roll bar is definitely a sticking plaster solution, what often gets overlooked is no suspension system using ARB's can be correctly described as fully independent. I've never really understood how manufactures get away with using the term "Fully Independent" when in nearly all cases there's a dirty great torsion bar physically tying both sides together

But we need not concern ourselves too much with all this ARB and ARB drop link chat, because the Chimaera has more fundamental issues built in. The use of a front upright designed by Ford in the 1980's for a McPherson strut system on a car using coil overs seems to me the biggest limitation of the lot, then there's the short travel offered by the coil overs themselves and that's before you study their overly horizontal inclination.

Personally I choose to accept these limitations as part of the character of the car, what I can't accept is that my steering and suspension clearly needs the worn parts replacing or refurbishing... so this has to be my immediate focus.


It's actually quite surprising the only people that seem to have made a serious attempt at addressing the Ford Sierra front upright issue is Sportmotive... and I believe this upright will only work on their Evolution Chassis? What we need is a better all ally front upright that bolts straight onto a standard Chimaera with little or no modifications, you may well find then you don't need £4k Intrax coil overs to make the car handle? A pair of these retro fit bolt on aluminium front uprights may well be limited in their design by other parameters you cant easily change like the damper top mount to chassis position, but surely there's still scope to make a better job of things than simply sticking with an old Sierra front hub that's had a core plug knocked into it where a long travel McPherson strut was designed to go?

TVR knew all this themselves of course which is why every TVR following the Griff & Chimaaera used bespoke TVR fabricated front uprights. The first cars to get their own front uprights were Cerbera and Tuscan models but it seems TVR were still finding their feet with suspension design at this time, the Tuscan especially known for having notoriously twitchy steering. It wasn't until we got the Tamora & T350 that thinks came good, I'll put money on this being when TVR finally realised they needed to commission the services of a formerly trained suspension engineer

The rest of us with cars before the Tamora & T350 are left with varying degrees of amateur Heath Robinson suspension design that really demands a dramatic clean sheet approach, which isn't really practicality given the design constraints of the rest of the chassis/body architecture of a Chimaaera or Griffith. All this is why I'll just be trying to get what I have as good as I can make it without throwing the king's ransom at the project which understandably someone on the outside might perceive as trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

That sounds quite harsh, and the truth is if a Chimaera's suspension and steering are all exactly as they should be you can still have a lot of fun chucking one of these cars about, it'll never be an Evora but given my Chimaera clearly needs a thorough going through of all its suspension and steering components it makes sense to do just that, and to do so before I get too excited about spending a tonn of cash on a set of fancy coil overs.

Back on topic....

Who will be the first to come up with a rear drop link alternative that fits the Chimaera?

My bet is Racetech Direct already know the answer

[ChimpOnGas]

Here's my best effort...

Nissan 200sx front drop links...



They're 105mm in length vs the 110mm of the TVR originals so that would make them a very close match indeed, but ideally we need the measurement from the lower bush saddle to the centre of the ball joint.

We're looking for the distance between my arrows to be exactly (or as close as possible) to the 70mm I measured on my Leven links.

Any of you own a Nissan 200sx or have a mate who does?


NB: I've just ordered one as they're only £12.41 each for the German made Febi Bilstein brand, I'm throwing my hard earned £12.41 at this for the potential good of you all, fec I'm nice..

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 12th September 18:44

[ChimpOnGas]

s p a c e m a n said:

Shirley it's the distance from the centre of the joint to the top of the lower rubber bush that needs to be close to the tvr one?

.

Well yes & no Shirley

The truth is the the lower bush saddle (washer) dictates everything as it's welded to shaft, you can then slide on a bush to suit or even cut down the ones that come with the Nissan links assuming they are thicker or the bush saddle (washer) is too far up the shaft. Its easier to adjust the bush or buy different ones than change where the washer sits, but like you say I doubt we need to me mm perfect here.

s p a c e m a n said:

I appreciate your purchase on this as I need a pair of rears and was planning on annoying the bloke at eurocarparts again by making him get all the options out while I stand there and try to match them with an old one.

The way I see it an hour of my time stood in Euro Car Parts is worth more than a £12.41 gamble, someone took a punt on the Honda ones then shared the results here, ultimately that person has saved me money so the least I can do is try to return the favour.

If it all works out then I'll obviously share the info here with my fellow enthusiasts, the thing is when you share with the enthusiasts on Piston Heads you also share with the TVR parts specialist who trust me follow these pages closer than anyone, in this case they've already found the links that work but I'm sure you get my point

Fingers crossed Naisan 200sx front links will do the trick, if not all I will have lost is £12.41, BTW the track rod ends are off a Mk2 Escort or Mk3 Cortina, actually Ford used the same track rod end on a host of stuff from the late sixties right up to the early/mid eighties.

[ChimpOnGas]

Sardonicus said:

s p a c e m a n said:

I tried the mk2 escort ones, all dimensions were correct but the thread pitch to the rod was wrong. I need to investigate a bit more, I've got my car in way too many pieces at the moment though so I'm dealing more with the big bits first

MK2 Escorts never had drop links fitted front or rear

He's talking about track rod ends Simon...

These ones..



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311489441154?_trksid=p20...

Well I hope they are, I've just bought a set

[ChimpOnGas]

s p a c e m a n said:

Yeah, non RS Mk2 escort track rod ends. Googling the part number I found on my old one even sent me to burtons for a pair, but they wouldn't screw onto the steering rack because the thread was the wrong pitch. Let us know how you get on with the ones you've ordered and I'll give it another go, I could've been sent the wrong part I suppose

Six years ago I fitted a pair of Mk3 Cortina track rod ends with no problems whatsoever, and I'm not anticipating any issues with the ones I've just bought either.

Honestly it's such a common part, Ford used the same track rod end for the best part of 20 years on a host of models, the thread is M14x2.

The Ford part number is: 5 021 411

Or you could choose from a host of alternatives:

DELPHI TA687
FEBI BILSTEIN 11988
FIRST LINE FTR4040
FIRST LINE FTR4216
LEMFORDER 11644
LEMFORDER 1164401
MAPCO 19732
MOOG FDBJ0335
MOOG FDES0334
NK 5032503
OCAP 0280655
OPTIMAL G1071
QUINTON HAZELL QR1384S
RTS 9100612
RTS 9100614
RUVILLE 915212
SIDEM 1630
SWAG 50710022
TRISCAN 8500138400
VAICO V259556

[ChimpOnGas]

Belle427 said:

I took my rear anti roll bar off a year ago while I waited for new drop links to arrive, it's still gathering dust in the garage as I noticed feck all difference when driving on the road.

It's a good point you make, what you've done by removing the rear anti roll bar is:

• Given your Chimaera true independent rear suspension

• Improved rear traction especially in the wet

• Removed a common cause of annoying knocks and rattles (ie the rear ARB drop links)

• Removed some weight from the rear of your car

So if there are no adverse handling traits to removing the rear ARB all you're left with is the above four benefits.

I stuck my old original ancient Bilsteins on the back of my Chimaera just so I could move the car while my GGPs are being rebuilt, I then removed both totally knackered Leven drop links. By rights I really shouldn't have driven the car like this especially as the spring rates on the Billies are way too soft given the extra 50kg of LPG kit in my boot.

But I couldn't resist trying it, so I went for a very gentle run on those tired old Billies with their 275lb springs and no rear anti roll bar connected. The first thing I noticed was how quiet the rear of the car was, no real surprise here given one of my Gaz Gold Pros had lost all it's oil and the Leven links were totally shot. However, with the rear end so much quieter the next two things that dominated my senses were the squeaking front Gaz Gold Pros and a general looseness from the front end at speed which leads me to accept I'll need to completely go through the front steering & suspension including refurbishing the front Gaz Gold Pros to match what I'm doing with the rear.

The big surprise was those 1996 original Billies with their way too light spring rates gave a really nice ride, although I wasn't exactly throwing the car about I also noticed nothing untoward from disconnecting the rear ARB other than a significant reduction in rattles and other annoying noises.

With all this in mind I'm going to fit my rebuilt Gaz Gold Pros and initially leave the ARB disconnected, I'll run it like that for a week or two to see how I get on. I'll then fit the Nissan drop links to the rear and see what difference it makes, this will give me an immediate back to back comparison to help me decide if the rear ARB stays or goes. I don't do track days, the way I see it my LPG TVR is a fast economical road going GT classic sports car, as such I tend to use it for continental touring and some light back lane scratching at most so it may well be deleting my rear ARB will suit me perfectly?

Interesting...

[ChimpOnGas]

I don't want this to turn into a slagging of Gaz Gold Pros

I like and seek a compliant ride with good stability, while the GGP's aren't the last word in sophistication they're not nearly as bad as people are making out.

My old Billies were born in 1996 and did 35,000 before I changed them, perhaps I should have had them rebuilt but I went for the GGP's instead and the car's handling improved massively.

When I test drove the car on the old Billies at the weekend it really was a gentle run, and with one totally blown rear GGP fresh in my mind I think I could have put a set of Honda C90 shocks on the back and it would have felt better.

For £80 I will get my 400lb sprung GGP rears rebuilt, I'll drop them at the factory tomorrow and they'll be delivered back to me in under a week, it's a no-brainer fast and cost effective solution to being back on the road enjoying the car again.

With 50kg of gas bottles in my boot I'll be going nowhere on those old tired 275lb sprung Billies, there just there so I can move the car about if I need to.

[ChimpOnGas]

Back on topic, it's interesting to see the type of drop link design chosen by Lotus for the Elise, Exige ect.



https://www.eliseparts.com/products/show/70/396/an...

And Lotus continue to use the same design on the Evora.

Porsche choose the same design too, here's one off a 997 911.



http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/swaybars/...

And Ferrari, here's a drop link from a 599...



http://www.superformance.co.uk/v12m/suspension_599...

None of these manufacturers of fine handling street focussed sports cars fit rose jointed drop links, and none of them fit these vulcanised rubber ball & socket 1960/70s tech rubbish TVR gave us...



If my Nissan 200sx ones fit the rear and the Honda Accord ones fit the front we can all update our drop links to the superior and more modern design used by every major car maker for just £45 for a complete set of four Febi Bilsten German made links.

Or about £125.00 for a set of the same thing from here...

http://www.racetechdirect.co.uk/tvr-car-part-c0064...

[ChimpOnGas]

I would imagine inconsistent loading and unloading of the anti roll bar due to worn or seized drop links would potentially create some odd and unpredictable behaviour when cornering, accelerating and or braking.

However, I can't see worn or seized drop links having much impact if you're just driving along in a straight line, so you'd need to elaborate on when you're actually suffering the issue but the truth is you almost certainly won't find the answer discussing the problem on a forum.

Why don't you get the car checked over by a TVR specialist with a good reputation for setting these cars up properly and one who has the right alignment kit to reveal any anomalies with your geometry?

Someone who knows these cars inside out needs to check over your car in person, it's the only way you'll find out what's really wrong with it Daz...

[ChimpOnGas]

Amazingly my Gaz rear suspension units that I literally only dropped off yesterday at 12.30pm are all sorted.

The Gaz factory found a bent rod on the leaker which they replaced along with all the seals on both dampers.

They are sending them on a next day courier and DHL just sent me a text to say I'll have them tomorrow.

All that for just £90, bargain!

But this fantastic service aside there's more to the story than that, I drove to Bracknell today in the TVR on my ancient Bilstiens and the rear anti roll bar disconnected. By rights it should have been a death trap but my wife had accidentally taken the keys to the Toyota so I had no choice, either risk it in the TVR for 100 miles or miss a prospect meeting and hand the business to the competition.

The thing is it wasn't a death trap at all, it drove so well I'm now thinking I may keep the Bilstiens, the ride is amazingly compliant and civilised with none of the nasty harsh noises my rose jointed drop links and track focussed Gaz dampers gave. Who would have thunk it?

I even filed up with 62 litres of LPG which is 31Kg and no adverse effects whatsoever, just a quiet smooth and noise free ride that had me growing in confidence the more I drove it so much so I ended up having some fun on some back roads and she simply stuck like glue and soaked up all the rough surfaces like I only could dream of achieving with the Gaz rears even when they were new.

Honestly, if someone had told me they'd just stuck a set of newly developed super compliment high end road focussed dampers on the rear I would have totally believed them and happily paid £1000 for these new wonder coil overs. In reality all I did disconnect the rear ARB and stick my snotty looking 20 year old Billy Bilstiens on the back that have been sat gathering dust I my lockup for the last six years



This is almost impossible to accept, but trust me it's 100% true!

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 15th September 16:31

[ChimpOnGas]

ray von said:

ChimpOnGas said:

The thing is it wasn't a death trap at all, it drove so well I'm now thinking I may keep the Bilstiens, the ride is amazingly compliant and civilised with none of the nasty harsh noises my rose jointed drop links and track focussed Gaz dampers gave. Who would have thunk it?

Me. People on here are obsessed with alleged upgrades when in reality the Bilsteins are excellent dampers. Don't get me started on Gaz

I'm going to have a chat with Ben Lang at Blackdown Automotive (07855 503252)...

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Blackdown-Automotive?_trk...

I'm really impressed with my old Billies, they give such a loovely compliant ride with no handling downsides whatsoever as far as I can tell, in fact I'm pretty sure I'm actually quicker on the back roads by a good margin because my suspension is now soaking up the poor surfaces and I'm no longer weaving between potholes and in constant fear of crashing and smashing over the next fag butt left on the road.

The car finally rides like I'd hoped it would and is perfect for my style of driving, I cant believe all this was waiting for me in my lockup for six years and has cost me exactly £0.00 to install. To be fair with my extra weight in the boot my old Billies would probably benefit from some very slightly firmer springs and the opportunity to raise the rear ride height would be nice to give the car more rake and pitch a touch more weight over the front wheels.

So even though I've just spent £90 haaving my GGP rears serviced I'm now super tempted to treat myself to a set of Ben's MK4 Chim/Griff Bilstein mono-tube/Upside-down gas pressure technology dampers complete with the correct road friendly rubber bushes and quality Eibach springs.

I've just put everything in my shopping basket and the total comes to £944.46, not cheap but perhaps Ben will have a deal with me if I'm not buying through Ebay as I know all too well myself they like to take a nice slice of commission. I know a few of you good folks like Ray Von have been saying it for ages but I'm finally starting to realise myself Bilstein may well be the very best value for money Chim/Griff coil overs on the market?

After my genuine positive surprise experience arising from simply lobbing my 20 year old original coil overs on 'Ol Gasbag' I now owe it to myself to explore this whole Bilstein thing further...

I can see another grand slipping through my fingers very soon

[ChimpOnGas]

mjlloyd said:

i have had my gaz gold pros on my griff for 6 years they are miles better than those piece of cap bilstiens i had on there before.plus i have just had the upgraded drop links from race tech put on and they make the car feel much more planted around cornerd but with fitting a cost of 240 pounds ouch

Well that's exactly what I thought when I swapped my Bilstiens for my GGPs six years ago, but putting them back on six years later and disconnecting the rear ARB has got me questioning everything???

Perhaps my GGPs have been shot for ages, one was leaking very badly for sure and today I got a call from Gaz to say a rod was bent too so basically they were totally feked, it's no wonder the Billies feel so good after I've been driving around like that for the last God knows how long?

That's why I'm going to slap my refreshed GGPs back on and see how she rides as a direct back to back with my ancient Billies that I actually have fallen back in love with for the time being.

I'll start with retaining the Billies and connecting the rear ARB using my Nissan 200sx drop links to see what happens, I'll then whip the Billies off and fit the GGPs, first with no ARB then with the Nissaan links to connect it up.

I've decided I'm going to test all possible combinations and that includes doing the same with the front suspension, if the 20 year old Billies do indeed offer the better ride & handling balance then I may well invest a new set where the ride hight can be adjusted and ask Ben to equip them with slightly heavier rear springs to match my extra weight in the boot.

I'm now very intrigued by all this and am determined to find the answer, I will of course share my totally honest findings on the alternative drop links, front/rear ARBs connected or disconnected and which coil overs offer the best ride & handling.

It may not be fashionable but I'm not embarrassed to reveal I'm looking for a compliant ride, not at the cost of good real world on the road handling you understand but I'm not out there trying to shave a few tenths of my track time, I'm simply looking to make my TVR more usable and enjoyable to drive and I genuinely feel I'm faster in a car that soaks up poor road surfaces than on that crashes over them.

Finally here's one last thought for the day from me...

How is it I needed to go from 325lb springs to 400lb springs on my rear GGPs to stop them bottoming out, when my prehistoric 20 year old Bilsteins that have been stuck in my lockup for 6 years proved today they refused to bottom out with their lightweight 260lb springs..

Can it be the damper units on the GGP coil overs just can't control a lighter spring that's going to allow the suspension to move through a greater range of articulation, if that's the case and Gaz are trying to solve the failings of their damping by simply increasing the spring weight its just going to end up with the suspension not working as designed.

It strikes me to deliver that lovely compliant ride I'm looking for the suspension must be allowed to move through it's full range of articulation, currently I'm not 100% convinced my GGPs are achieving this?

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 15th September 19:00

[ChimpOnGas]

MisterT said:

A man at Eibach told me some years ago that the rising rate rear spring D0103 has a rate of 217 lbs/in rising to 342 lbs/in so this might account for why these old springs are performing better than you expected

^^^I'm just off the phone with Ben Lang and this is exactly what he told me^^^

However we are now designing something bespoke to best suit the unique characteristics of 'Ol Gasbag' and her slightly heavier rear end, this will include linear rather than rising rate springs and a clever re-valve to suit.

Basically the proposal is a hybridised unit, a Chimaera damper body re-valved and sprung following Tuscan 'S' specifications, these will be machined with grooves to allow fine tuning of rake & ride height as dialling in more more nose down attitude has the effect of pushing some of that addition weight forward to reduce under steer.

Ben is clearly a mine of information and took to the unique challenges of my gas powered contraption with a genuine can do attitude and passion to deliver the very best results possible.

There are a myriad of options being proposed at this stage from a simple refurbishment of what I have now to a menu of upgrades on my original units, from here I can go to brand new bodies with the same extensive range of valving and spring rate options offered on my old Billies that seem to be rather good just as they are TBH.

Lets see if we can tune them to 'Ol Gasbag' and make the suspension on my Chinmaera the best and most compliment road going setup I can possibly achieve within the limitations of the suspension design we all know has some fundamental issues that goes way beyond a set of well chosen quality coil overs.

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 15th September 19:56

[ChimpOnGas]

ray von said:

ray von said:

Dave, I just had a conversation this morning with my local garage about aftermarket suspension and the guy summed it up nicely " Some people buy aftermarket dampers and then spend all their time trying to get it set up as though they had Bilsteins" Not a dig at you

SILICONEKID345HP said:

After going trying

Gaz Nickles
Gaz Gold Pros
Gaz Monos

All were terrible.

I think the Nitrins are the business , I run them soft for the road and a TVR specialist thought they were Bilsteins.
They are useable in any setting not like GAZ.

there we go

I'm listening to ray von and I'm listening to Ben Lang, but mostly I'm listening to the things I've discovered myself over the last few days. What I've not been listening to over the last two days is all the banging, crashing and rattles my Chimaera suspension has been making for the last few years.

All this came out of an happy accident really, I only fitted the Bilsteins while the GGPs were being rebuilt so I could move the car about, and I only drove it for a bit of fun to see how dreadful the ride and handling was in this state.

It's genuinely come as a massive surprise to me but I now have to accept what I'm looking for from the ride and handing of my Chimaera may be yellow and have a Bilstein sticker on it

A custom Tuscan S sprung & valved set of Bilsteins bespoke built for 'Ol Gasbag's' special requirements, with the addition of the proper modern type road focussed drop links we've been discussing here may well deliver the perfect noise free compliant ride with tight handling I've been dreaming of all along.

It's a funny old world chaps