Engine won't fire. Any ideas?

[caduceus]

Was attempting first fire today and it's not having it. The engine turns over and I can smell petrol so it IS getting to the front of the engine. I smelt the pipes and there is a smell of fuel on the N/S pipe/bank, but not the O/S.
Aside from that, it just won't fire. Not even a hint of spark or the slightest of farts. It does however spin freely 2 or so cycles, then slow/labour, then spin then slow, etc.

The dizzy, as far as I can see it (I tippexed it for orientation) is the right way round. Will double check the leads, again. I did this twice whilst reassembling engine ancillaries.

What am I missing?

Any ideas chaps?

I will go out and turn her over and record it and hopefully it will reveal something that someone will recognise.

Thanks in advance
Cad

[caduceus]

QBee said:

Could it be a duff battery from that description - if it is struggling to turn it over for seconds at a time, then it may not have enough juice to spark as well.

Attach some good quality jump leads from your well charged daily driver, start its engine and try again.

Already tried that Astra van diesel.

[caduceus]

engine fire

[caduceus]

ClassicChimaera said:

Did you check for a spark?
Spins over fast enough

Strangely enough I've not done that before. Remove a HT lead and hold it to the block?

[caduceus]

wuckfitracing said:

Have you had the distributor out ? If so is the rotor arm pointing to the lead on the distributor cap that goes to number 1 cylinder when at the top the compression stroke. Might sound daft but I know of several people who have done this wrong (not me).

Yes. Did that when I put the dizzy back in. Going double check, again, the HT leads in the morning.

[caduceus]

s p a c e m a n said:

Spare plug in a lead and rest it on a rocker cover to see if there's spark would be my first thing, then check that the firing order is correct. I'd then use the connector and bulb out of the side indicator repeater in the wing and plug it into the injector loom to see if the injectors were firing. Fuel lines are on the correct way around aren't they? I'd check the engine had a good earth too, rocker cover to chassis with a multimeter.. one of those should point you in the directon of the problem

Don't have a multimeter. But will check the other things in the morning. Whip the plugs out first. Then check leads, etc.
Seems funny there was only a fuel smell from ONLY the N/S exhaust pipe....

[caduceus]

One other thing - my battery was out of the car for 2 years. It was only 3 months old and a Bosch S4. Could it have discharged itself and become useless in that period?

[caduceus]

Steve_D said:

From the noise on cranking I'm placing my bet on dizzy 180 degrees out.

Steve

I've checked the dizzy cap this morning. There is only one way it can got on, as there is a cut out and tab to align the cap with body. Also the dizzy body itself has that regulator thing on the front that points to the N/S part of the aux belt. So that's right.
If that's what you mean

I'm assuming I got the timing wrong when I first put the dizzy in.

- Take off oil filler cap
- Rotate the crank, past the inlet valve opening and closing, then as the exhaust valve starts to move turn until the balancer hits TDC. Or something like that (can't remember exactly, as I phoned V8D on how to do it).
- Then put dizzy in correct position as when it was taken out.
- Place rotor arm pointing to cylinder 1 lead on cap.

I'm just going to find a guide online on how to do it again, and repeat the procedure. Then re check the leads and try firing up again.

Just so fed up of having to go over stuff again and again

Edited by caduceus on Wednesday 15th February 07:48

[caduceus]

I think I've probably got the cycles wrong when fitting the dizzy...

If anyone knows of a definitive and easy to follow guide on how to get the correct cycle before putting the dizzy in, I'd appreciate it

[caduceus]

Just got it to TDC on the firing stroke. Took off the dizzy cap, and it was pointing to cylinder 4! God knows how that happened. When I did this the first time round I set it at 1
Maybe I was on the pop at the time.

Going to take out dizzy and drop it back in with the arm pointing to 1 again. Although I just read on a Landy forum it's best to set it near number 8 so when the gear teeth notch together as you push the dizzy home it'll slot nearer to number 1.

[caduceus]

Yes, I suppose I could have moved the leads around two places clockwise, but I had to do the whole rotation of the crank to TDC firing on 1 to find out anyway.
I'm praying this will be what the reason for it not starting. But I would have thought there would have been at least one or two pops at some point during all the attempts to get it going.....

[caduceus]

It's sorted now (well, pre-start at least). It's a serp engine so the pump is driven from the crank, not the dizzy. Probably a little easier in that respect. When I lined it up to go down I had the rotor pointing nearer to cylinder 2, so when it slotted in, the rotor turned nearer to 1. Then just turned the dizzy body a little to line up exactly at 1.

Just awaiting a friend to come over to sit in the hot seat and keep the revs up while I check for leaks and bleed the coolant properly. Praying it starts this time. Otherwise I'll be finding a tree and a bit of rope :/

[caduceus]

Steve_D said:

No pops but those hesitations during cranking was that cylinder trying to fire when it was coming up to compression. The fire then tried to drive that piston back down against the starter hence the hesitation.

Steve

That's reassuring. Thanks Steve.

[caduceus]

She lives again!
Started first time, and with a bit of dizzy tweaking she was purring, loudly...
Solid 50psi dropping to about 45 when it was hot and fan kicking in. Temp wise it never got to 100 degrees. Just topped out at 90 and fell to around 60/65. The y piece to where it joins the main exhaust was glowing cherry red at one point. Then it seemed to just disappear. Not sure what that was all about.

She sounds beautiful. I forgot how great these cars sound.

Thanks for the support guys. Means a lot.

Cad

[caduceus]

Thanks chaps.

This is how hot things got during the 20 minute cam run in




I'm assuming it was a combination of the exhaust wrap not letting the heat disperse from the manifolds, and over-fuelling whilst the ECU works out the new cam and far from perfect timing...?

It DID settle and disappear after about 15 minutes.

[caduceus]

The day before it was turned over a fair few times with no spark. Could be fuel residue left over....

[caduceus]

Steve_D said:

Glowing cherry red is not unusual when bedding in a new cam.

Steve

What causes it Steve? The ECU over-fuelling with the new cam?

Is it worth investing in a strobe light to fine tune the dizzy timing or whatever it's called? The actual cam timing was done by V8D so I'm confident there's nowt wrong there. I was twisting the dizzy quite a bit today to find a relative happy medium but I imagine it's quite a bit off where it should be.

[caduceus]

rovermorris999 said:

As it went away could the ecu have learnt new settings as suggested?

That's what I'm assuming. Either that or the unburnt fuel from the previous day's non firing attempts was burning off. Who knows.. But Steve did say this isn't uncommon when running in a new cam.

[caduceus]

Thanks for the replies. Will fire her up again later and check the temps and idle now cam is bedded in.

The question still stands though - Is it worth investing in a strobe light to fine tune the ignition/dizzy timing? Are they complicated to use? Never seen one being use in the flesh bizarrely enough.

[caduceus]

Steve_D said:

Strobe is a tool well worth having.
You can get two basic types fixed or adjustable.

For both type you need to mark the front pulley by using Tippex to highlight the timing mark and also the fixed pointer on the timing case.

If you have the fixed type gun you highlight on the pulley the timing advance you want to achieve.
If you have the adjustable type you highlight TDC on the pulley.

To use you connect the gun to 12v and the sensor wire to the number one HT lead. When No 1 fires the strobe lights. If you shine that light on the pulley and the fixed timing pointer. If the timing is correct the line on the pulley will be in line with the fixed pointer.

The adjustable gun is the better tool. You use a dial on the gun to set the timing you want to achieve, point at pulley and adjust the dizzy until the marks align. The advantage is rather than set the dial point the gun at the pulley and adjust the dial until the marks align. You can now read what the timing is on the dial.

You will normally be setting the timing at idle but your dizzy has a mechanical advance mechanism which will advance the timing as the revs increase. This advance is said to be 'all in' at certain revs where it no long increases (probably around 3250 revs). The advantage with the adjustable gun is you can bring the revs up and measure (using the dial) how much and when the timing increases and stops increasing.

Steve

Thanks for the detailed and informative reply Steve.
I have borrowed a Snapon strobe light from a very kind specialist mechanic and will be doing this tomorrow.

I was told to set it at 10 degrees at idle. Sound about right? Also, do I need to hold the revs at 3250 and set it at 10 degrees again?