Advise Required Please
Discussion
A bit of advise required on next winters project please,
Just passed the MOT a few weeks ago but Outriggers are coming to the end of life. Not bad for a 94 car which is used all year round. Visited Neil Garner and discussed his solution which does not require the body lift, he showed me what he was doing to another and very happy with this. It just shows how things move on, when I bought the car 12 years ago was concerned about outriggers and the big money required to remove the body to replace.
Anyway thats the history. It would seem sensible for me to restore the 4 corners as part of this project, so am planning on removing all suspension components, having them refurbished, painted and reinstalling and delivering for the outriggers and have wheel alignment at the same time as feel these areas are now getting a little tired.
Am very hands on and can tackle most things and plan to do all the spanner work myself.
During the Summer would like to org anise as much as possible, that way its not one big bill and do not have the added pressure and frustration of waiting for parts to be made and delivered, so my questions are:-
Is it worthwhile restoring the wishbones or is it more practical to buy bushed replacements – how good is the finish on these parts.
The same question regarding the original shocks, am very happy with the ride so not looking for an upgrade.
Should I look at powder coating springs and carriers etc or will hand painting be more practical with something like PQR, concerned about coating bearing faces and fit.
Have pondered over the above work and considered a full body off and chassis refurbish, but the spine appears in good condition and feel once going down this route the costs would rise into a major investment, so am happy with giving myself another 10 to 15 years refreshing the vulnerable bit only.
Any hints and tips gratefully received.
Andy
Just passed the MOT a few weeks ago but Outriggers are coming to the end of life. Not bad for a 94 car which is used all year round. Visited Neil Garner and discussed his solution which does not require the body lift, he showed me what he was doing to another and very happy with this. It just shows how things move on, when I bought the car 12 years ago was concerned about outriggers and the big money required to remove the body to replace.
Anyway thats the history. It would seem sensible for me to restore the 4 corners as part of this project, so am planning on removing all suspension components, having them refurbished, painted and reinstalling and delivering for the outriggers and have wheel alignment at the same time as feel these areas are now getting a little tired.
Am very hands on and can tackle most things and plan to do all the spanner work myself.
During the Summer would like to org anise as much as possible, that way its not one big bill and do not have the added pressure and frustration of waiting for parts to be made and delivered, so my questions are:-
Is it worthwhile restoring the wishbones or is it more practical to buy bushed replacements – how good is the finish on these parts.
The same question regarding the original shocks, am very happy with the ride so not looking for an upgrade.
Should I look at powder coating springs and carriers etc or will hand painting be more practical with something like PQR, concerned about coating bearing faces and fit.
Have pondered over the above work and considered a full body off and chassis refurbish, but the spine appears in good condition and feel once going down this route the costs would rise into a major investment, so am happy with giving myself another 10 to 15 years refreshing the vulnerable bit only.
Any hints and tips gratefully received.
Andy
Thanks guys some good advise there.
Am quite confident that the spine is good following an hour or two underneath, but as quite rightly said it is not possible to see everything, but think if you are honest with what you can see it will give a good overall impression. The only issue I have on the spine that I can see is around the exhaust headers where the paint and yearly waxoil is burnt off and a lot of connections to the chassis are here.
However have taken on board what has been said and shown and will get a second professional opinion before making a final decision which I believe to be the correct course to steer down.
Just a heads up - Neil Garner do not cut holes in the body work for outrigger access which is one of the reasons I visited them, but the list price is more than most. Their new out riggers are welded back on the spine with the exception of the rear top connection which is sleeved onto the existing cut off tube 200 mm outside. Have a lot of respect for these guys who know what they are doing.
As always, great feedback and thanks
Andy
Am quite confident that the spine is good following an hour or two underneath, but as quite rightly said it is not possible to see everything, but think if you are honest with what you can see it will give a good overall impression. The only issue I have on the spine that I can see is around the exhaust headers where the paint and yearly waxoil is burnt off and a lot of connections to the chassis are here.
However have taken on board what has been said and shown and will get a second professional opinion before making a final decision which I believe to be the correct course to steer down.
Just a heads up - Neil Garner do not cut holes in the body work for outrigger access which is one of the reasons I visited them, but the list price is more than most. Their new out riggers are welded back on the spine with the exception of the rear top connection which is sleeved onto the existing cut off tube 200 mm outside. Have a lot of respect for these guys who know what they are doing.
As always, great feedback and thanks
Andy
jazzdude said:
Last year I was in the same boat, generally a good chassis that just looked a little rough in places where the powder coat had a little surface rust.
Lucky for me, the outriggers had been replaced by the previous owner and did not need doing, but I still decided to do a partial body lift, which if you say you are up to getting your hands dirty is very doable in my opinion. I also did the wishbones, the bushes, refurbed the Gaz Golds (which only needed powder coating), drop links, TRE's and the diff bushes.
Yes you will need to put some time in and if you are planning to do this over a few weeks, then it will take that. I was basically spending a 2-3 short afternoons on it, and as you siad, bought all the parts in one hit.
Although it is time consuming, allow about 2-3 months, it was very rewarding over a winter break and I saved a fortune, just a few hundred quid for the parts. I reused the existing suspension parts, just got the bushes removed at a machine shop and then blasted, and the recoat was done by hand with Rustoleum. The chassis and suspension has been left uncovered, ie no gunk or Waxoyl and this month, I lifted it in the air again and gave it a wipedown and it looks as good as it did when I finished it last year.
You just have to be methodical and allow yourself to be patient to give it the time to do it.
This year its in the air again and having all sorts of other mods and improvements put on it, so maybe I just like messing around on this car.
Thanks JazzdudeLucky for me, the outriggers had been replaced by the previous owner and did not need doing, but I still decided to do a partial body lift, which if you say you are up to getting your hands dirty is very doable in my opinion. I also did the wishbones, the bushes, refurbed the Gaz Golds (which only needed powder coating), drop links, TRE's and the diff bushes.
Yes you will need to put some time in and if you are planning to do this over a few weeks, then it will take that. I was basically spending a 2-3 short afternoons on it, and as you siad, bought all the parts in one hit.
Although it is time consuming, allow about 2-3 months, it was very rewarding over a winter break and I saved a fortune, just a few hundred quid for the parts. I reused the existing suspension parts, just got the bushes removed at a machine shop and then blasted, and the recoat was done by hand with Rustoleum. The chassis and suspension has been left uncovered, ie no gunk or Waxoyl and this month, I lifted it in the air again and gave it a wipedown and it looks as good as it did when I finished it last year.
You just have to be methodical and allow yourself to be patient to give it the time to do it.
This year its in the air again and having all sorts of other mods and improvements put on it, so maybe I just like messing around on this car.
Had not thought of a partial lift - a bit of a halfway house option.
May I ask your opinion on this regarding access to the main spine chassis - would this allow reasonable access to the difficult to reach parts for a scrape and paint.
I am not looking for a 100% restoration, it does not need that - just a wash and brush up with a bit of prep and paint around the header area.
I totally understand and respect those who have done the total refurbishment, but for me just want to a reasonable job. It was bad enough having put time and money into a repaint and waiting for the first stone chip - with some of the pictures of immaculate painted chassis don't think I would enjoy driving it except on a perfect day.
Many thanks
Andy
Thanks Paul and Jazzdude and all who have taken the time and trouble to post.
The information and advice has been excellent and allowed me to come to my own conclusions and course of action which is far more logical now I have had all this impute.
So have decided the best course for me is based on the following:-
Have a second professional opinion at Neil Garner who will do the outriggers.
Have decided the main chassis spine is good apart from the known area around the headers which is surface rust due to the protective coating being burnt off and the road crud being splashed around in the wheel well. Have seen the pictures posted of some chassis after body off and if that was mine I would be doing the same.
The outriggers are coming to the end of life and need some attention if the car is going to get through another MOT or be safe, any effort to restore the outriggers on the car is just going to be a bodge and waste effort and money. It would be sensible to refurbish the suspension on all four corners as part of the project and have decided to try and reuse the existing wishbones to keep costs down. Once this has been completed all the parts in the DIRTY AIR will be fresh and can take responsibility for them.
As part of the project will also address the spine under the headers and have a general wash and brush of the rest of the chassis and hand paint a few local areas that the coating has been knocked off as best I can with the body on.
Was going to fit new carpets with a sound deadening skin over the next couple of months but will possibly put this on hold until after discussion and assessment by Neil Garner.
I like the idea of a partial body lift to give me better access to the wash and brush up of the spine, but also think that if I thought this was required a full body off would be the way to go but a huge step if the spine is ok. I think the danger of doing this is that a refresh project would turn into a restoration which the car does not need.
Certainly, after this is complete will install some protective flaps in the front and rear wheel well to stop the road crud spraying off the wheels and directly onto the outriggers and spraying between the body and top of the tubes.
The car has been wax oiled yearly from new which I have carried on with during the 11 years with me, but will reassess this because it looks such a mess. I like the idea of maybe a yearly wash and brush up instead because any problems can be addressed at the same time instead of just covering them up. I guess this decision will be made after I see what is under 23 years of wax oil.
Many thanks
Andy
The information and advice has been excellent and allowed me to come to my own conclusions and course of action which is far more logical now I have had all this impute.
So have decided the best course for me is based on the following:-
Have a second professional opinion at Neil Garner who will do the outriggers.
Have decided the main chassis spine is good apart from the known area around the headers which is surface rust due to the protective coating being burnt off and the road crud being splashed around in the wheel well. Have seen the pictures posted of some chassis after body off and if that was mine I would be doing the same.
The outriggers are coming to the end of life and need some attention if the car is going to get through another MOT or be safe, any effort to restore the outriggers on the car is just going to be a bodge and waste effort and money. It would be sensible to refurbish the suspension on all four corners as part of the project and have decided to try and reuse the existing wishbones to keep costs down. Once this has been completed all the parts in the DIRTY AIR will be fresh and can take responsibility for them.
As part of the project will also address the spine under the headers and have a general wash and brush of the rest of the chassis and hand paint a few local areas that the coating has been knocked off as best I can with the body on.
Was going to fit new carpets with a sound deadening skin over the next couple of months but will possibly put this on hold until after discussion and assessment by Neil Garner.
I like the idea of a partial body lift to give me better access to the wash and brush up of the spine, but also think that if I thought this was required a full body off would be the way to go but a huge step if the spine is ok. I think the danger of doing this is that a refresh project would turn into a restoration which the car does not need.
Certainly, after this is complete will install some protective flaps in the front and rear wheel well to stop the road crud spraying off the wheels and directly onto the outriggers and spraying between the body and top of the tubes.
The car has been wax oiled yearly from new which I have carried on with during the 11 years with me, but will reassess this because it looks such a mess. I like the idea of maybe a yearly wash and brush up instead because any problems can be addressed at the same time instead of just covering them up. I guess this decision will be made after I see what is under 23 years of wax oil.
Many thanks
Andy
CanoeSniffer said:
Hi Andy, that may well have been my car that you saw at Neil Garners!
Anything like this?
You can definitely have full confidence in NGs in doing the outriggers, yes it's a considerable expense but when they're so open and honest with their concerns, thoughts and progress you know that it's worthwhile doing. I too was fearing a full body lift required on my car due to all-weather running and a long time since itd seen any serious attention, but found that although the outriggers were completely shot the backbone was in pucker shape. Strange really, shows just how vulnerable the outriggers are!
Mike
Anything like this?
You can definitely have full confidence in NGs in doing the outriggers, yes it's a considerable expense but when they're so open and honest with their concerns, thoughts and progress you know that it's worthwhile doing. I too was fearing a full body lift required on my car due to all-weather running and a long time since itd seen any serious attention, but found that although the outriggers were completely shot the backbone was in pucker shape. Strange really, shows just how vulnerable the outriggers are!
Mike
Hi Mike
Yes it was your car I looked at, and agree NG are a great bunch of straight forward people. Was a bit concerned about having outriggers done without either removing body or cutting holes in it which is why I visited them. Have complete confidence in their system and know they would not do anything which did not fit in with their quality service.
Mine is an L reg so around the same manufacture time, the newer ones, I have been told had corners cut with the chassis paint as the orders ramped up and stressed the factory. Have seen some pictures of chassis sitting in the car park for weeks corroding before being collected for powder coating because the in house paint plant could noy cope with the numbers.
Once mine are done am going to make protective flaps in the front and rear wheel wells because the outside areas are in the DIRTY AIR and are getting blasted by road crud off the wheels - amazed mine have lasted 23 years in this location.
I live in Weston-super-Mare having moved here from Bristol. Quite a nice group of TVR owners around the area and am intending a bit of a group meet at one of the small car shows we have down here, be a nice hoon out in the summer.
Andy
Hi Mike
Am sure you will meet a lot of new friends over the next couple of months, these cars are better than a small dog for getting talking to people. Neil Garner have an open day around May time which is very good.
Bristol has a monthly car meeting at Queens Square and the Haynes Museum has a monthly meeting, these normally getting a lot of attention and the chance to talk cars.
Have just joined the TVRCC as hoping to go on a few trips this summer, but have not been to any meetings with them yet.
Thomas
Thank you very much for your advice, please do not worry too much as I have my eyes wide open regarding the chassis on these cars. I believe this has allowed me to buy quite a decent one which has been well looked after.
Just as a matter of information the wax oil has only been applied to the outriggers and wishbones, which was detailed on the first service, and after all would seem a sensible approach given the location and difficult access for maintenance. If the center spine had received this treatment I would have been very suspect and walked away as there is no reason to do this unless covering a problem.
You may think I am being a bit tight and slapdash but this is not the case at all, I just know how easy it is to get carried away, for example if my chassis looked remotely like some of the pre-refurb pictures I have seen I would not have bothered and replaced it.
The advice has been great, as when I first bought the car all those years ago, the only option for outriggers was a body off which was why so many cars for sale at that time were bad. It was obvious to me though even with a very sound chassis that at some time in the future the outriggers would need to be replaced and am happy to take advantage of new tried and tested solutions.
Andy
Am sure you will meet a lot of new friends over the next couple of months, these cars are better than a small dog for getting talking to people. Neil Garner have an open day around May time which is very good.
Bristol has a monthly car meeting at Queens Square and the Haynes Museum has a monthly meeting, these normally getting a lot of attention and the chance to talk cars.
Have just joined the TVRCC as hoping to go on a few trips this summer, but have not been to any meetings with them yet.
Thomas
Thank you very much for your advice, please do not worry too much as I have my eyes wide open regarding the chassis on these cars. I believe this has allowed me to buy quite a decent one which has been well looked after.
Just as a matter of information the wax oil has only been applied to the outriggers and wishbones, which was detailed on the first service, and after all would seem a sensible approach given the location and difficult access for maintenance. If the center spine had received this treatment I would have been very suspect and walked away as there is no reason to do this unless covering a problem.
You may think I am being a bit tight and slapdash but this is not the case at all, I just know how easy it is to get carried away, for example if my chassis looked remotely like some of the pre-refurb pictures I have seen I would not have bothered and replaced it.
The advice has been great, as when I first bought the car all those years ago, the only option for outriggers was a body off which was why so many cars for sale at that time were bad. It was obvious to me though even with a very sound chassis that at some time in the future the outriggers would need to be replaced and am happy to take advantage of new tried and tested solutions.
Andy
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