Coolant issue.
Discussion
Not sure what to think of this one. Driving along, temps a tad low after 15 miles I can hear and almost feel a prounounced tapping coming from engine bay so pullover. The engine switched off clunks/taps like a hammers being hit off it. Seriously violent action with palm placed on Plenum. It stops. Re start engine, Rev it, hold revs for awhile, fans kick in and out, no tapping clunking sounds, drive car,,, hear water rushing in or out of heater matrix, heaters hot,
Carry on a bit more, hear prounounced tsppimg so pullover,, engine running feel hose from engine to swirl pot, clunking and what feels like sudden rushes of water and air, these clunks move the engine. Switch off. Leave it for a few minutes at most, fire up and drive 10 miles home with no noises and again at home no huge ticking as engine cools and no clunks from engine.
Long story short I'm hoping this is air in the system rather than what felt and sounded like metal clashing against each other. Is this a sign of liner problems.
Very strangely when I'd first noticed the tapping and stopped the engine, no tapping at this point I unscrewed the expansion cap and barely any pressure released?!!
Did the same thing the second time and there was pressure as you'd expect. Hoses don't feel to firm or bulging but are firm.
Any ideas guys.
I've never heard or seen an engine make such odd noises.
The noises continue when engines off so not mechanical but it feels like it and the engine shudders from the force.
Carry on a bit more, hear prounounced tsppimg so pullover,, engine running feel hose from engine to swirl pot, clunking and what feels like sudden rushes of water and air, these clunks move the engine. Switch off. Leave it for a few minutes at most, fire up and drive 10 miles home with no noises and again at home no huge ticking as engine cools and no clunks from engine.
Long story short I'm hoping this is air in the system rather than what felt and sounded like metal clashing against each other. Is this a sign of liner problems.
Very strangely when I'd first noticed the tapping and stopped the engine, no tapping at this point I unscrewed the expansion cap and barely any pressure released?!!
Did the same thing the second time and there was pressure as you'd expect. Hoses don't feel to firm or bulging but are firm.
Any ideas guys.
I've never heard or seen an engine make such odd noises.
The noises continue when engines off so not mechanical but it feels like it and the engine shudders from the force.
Edited by ClassicChimaera on Thursday 30th March 07:50
Discopotatoes said:
if you can get it to repeat get a screwdriver against your ear and place it on the inlet manifold near as you can to the cylinders do each cylinder you should be able to hear which cylinder is slipping or narrow it to a bank
I'm convinced it's a slipped liner now 
The noises when engine was running sounded entirely mechanical and loud, f
k st crap! I'm vainly hoping because the clunking carried on when engine was off its cooling related but the more I think about it, it's both! I'm assuming liner movement could add pressure into the water system!
I'll check oil and water first thing then get some checks done.
I'm not very confident this will be a simple Air in the system problem.
So engine gets hot, liner sllips and mechanical noise ensues.
Engine cools and liner regains grip??? Why has it gone silent again. I drove a good 10 miles with no tapping and engine was very quiet. Temp gauge never got above 90. Hmmm!
Has anyone witnessed the sound of a slipped liner in a serp engine. How would you describe it.
It's obviously serious because the engine vibrated and the clunks resonated through it.
On another note, I noticed my plenum was very cool to touch after running in wind then instantly putting hand on it, it's usually hot, or it is when I've placed my hand on before but it could just be heat soak when engines stopped!
I feel like Mclaren, might aswell give up
I'm gonna write a list of the worst things that can go wrong and tick them off as I go along Richard
Cracked block will be in the next breath knowing my luck.
It's such a quiet engine normally.
At first I thought I had a lifter falling to pieces by the sounds of it.
No point me guessing.
You know where I'm going tomorrow. It's a liner surely cos it's gone tight and stops making such horrendous noises,what else could come and go like that.
That's me off the road for sometime if this is the reality.
Unbelievable.
Cracked block will be in the next breath knowing my luck.
It's such a quiet engine normally.
At first I thought I had a lifter falling to pieces by the sounds of it.
No point me guessing.
You know where I'm going tomorrow. It's a liner surely cos it's gone tight and stops making such horrendous noises,what else could come and go like that.
That's me off the road for sometime if this is the reality.
Unbelievable.
Discopotatoes said:
fingers crossed for you, but get a sniffer test done if a liner is slipping and pressurising the water jacket this will show up
Yep. It's obvious now I think about it. 20,000 miles at grandad speeds. Jeez. I might aswell prepare myself for bad new and try and find some positives from this. I've come to love my RV when for years I thought they were s
t,,,,, FFS I have the feeling it's more than one of them, coming from left and possibly right bank too going by my ears.
Ok on Saturday I went 25 miles with the roof off, I heard this noise but thought it was the flipping rear screen settling and creaking. By the time I'd slowed from 70 mph to 30-40 in town so I could hear properly it had settled and didn't do it so assumed I was right. How wrong was I.
I wonder if Dom needs a van driver for a month, does he do credit
come on ,,, that is funny 
Edited by ClassicChimaera on Wednesday 29th March 22:14
Discopotatoes said:
if you do find its a liner and if you can stretch to it top hats are the way forward, I've had this on my old P38 just after i bought it, 70000mile later and a couple of overheats (due to blocked rad and failed viscous fan) and a HG failure later the block was still good as gold, a days work replacing the HG's and getting rid of a airlock and was back to normal, goes to prove this is a no brainer when building a lump from scratch.
Which is a very good point, and very very annoying that I didn't have them done. I knew nothing about these engines then!! It might be a broken spring or rocker for all I know but the symptoms do appear classic liner problems.
I do not rev this engine above 5000 revs and that's not often so id be surprised if it's valve train.
This focuses the mind slightly! Buuuuuummmmer
Steve_D said:
Not saying this is not a liner issue but the noise continuing after the engine is off is more likely to be localised boiling and the noise is the steam pockets charging through the system.
Again this would not be rocker or lifter related if the noise continues.
Steve
Thanks for this clarity Steve. Again this would not be rocker or lifter related if the noise continues.
Steve
This is my only hope that the noises I heard whilst engine WAS running are this localised boiling that I can feel when engines switched off, carries on for 10-15 seconds then settles. water/air/pressure on the hose after the thermostat felt violent.
I also heard the sound of water rushing through the heater pipes in the pass footwell whilst driving which I've never had before, then the ticking.
Thanks for the replies guys, helps make sense of it all.
My temp gauge took to long to get upto temp! Should have known right then something wasn't right. Tut tut.
Edited by ClassicChimaera on Wednesday 29th March 23:31
Thanks for the words guys, loose hose, I'd thought of that one too.
Now a few weeks back I replaced steering arm joints, loosened small water pipe that goes to the metal tubed bit to swing the clip out the way, tiny amount of coolant seepage and nipped up. Maybe drawing air there. But I'm not using water!
AND I have a recently purchased expansion cap. About a year or so old!
Genuine VW part so? I'll put the old one back on and try it
I'm about to down my coffee and have a look at it in daylight.
Feeling pensive and deeply miffed!
Water pump Dave replaced a year ago, I did imagine a broken impeller. Cold start this morning and I'll listen with a driver to ear.
Now a few weeks back I replaced steering arm joints, loosened small water pipe that goes to the metal tubed bit to swing the clip out the way, tiny amount of coolant seepage and nipped up. Maybe drawing air there. But I'm not using water!
AND I have a recently purchased expansion cap. About a year or so old!
Genuine VW part so? I'll put the old one back on and try it
I'm about to down my coffee and have a look at it in daylight.
Feeling pensive and deeply miffed!
Water pump Dave replaced a year ago, I did imagine a broken impeller. Cold start this morning and I'll listen with a driver to ear.
Edited by ClassicChimaera on Thursday 30th March 07:41
You'll probably have to press on pic then again so it scrolls down to see it clearly. Ipad !
Something's not been right for awhile,, black plugs less than 3000 miles ago when these were installed!
Those ( what appear to look like metal shards) are welded to the plug!
Water blue, oil clean, no loss of coolant, engine fires and runs quiet. Long screwdriver to ear on inlet manifold at ports, top of rockers, all sounds good, no tapping. Water pump sounds normal with driver to ear, rises and and falls with revs.
I've not warmed the engine yet as I've just pulled this plug. Not sure I should either!
this is for people's info and debate.
I will discuss this with engine builder. What a nightmare.
Any input is very welcome. It's a learning curve.
I don't want this to become a witch hunt so keep personal views aside please. This is serious st and I need technical advice only.
Thanks Al
Something's not been right for awhile,, black plugs less than 3000 miles ago when these were installed!
Those ( what appear to look like metal shards) are welded to the plug!
Water blue, oil clean, no loss of coolant, engine fires and runs quiet. Long screwdriver to ear on inlet manifold at ports, top of rockers, all sounds good, no tapping. Water pump sounds normal with driver to ear, rises and and falls with revs.
I've not warmed the engine yet as I've just pulled this plug. Not sure I should either!
this is for people's info and debate.
I will discuss this with engine builder. What a nightmare.
Any input is very welcome. It's a learning curve.
I don't want this to become a witch hunt so keep personal views aside please. This is serious s
t and I need technical advice only. Thanks Al
The water system has been annoying me for ages Peter, it's been bled enough times one way or another.
By me and Doms boys. Sat at idle when checking Mbe over and temps stable as hell and that was only weeks ago!
It's bksed let's be honest.
I'm sure that won't be the only plug with those deposits!
A nights sleep, processing the various noises, air or pressurised water system, thumping, rattling clanging then what sounded like a piston ring breaking after hitting something! Then nothing and quiet as a mouse, no smoke or steam, didn't want to use much power but did accelerate to check noises and did feel maybe 5% less responsive but very difficult to detect.
Started it this morning and it sounds ace! But that plug shows the damage has already been done by the look of it.
Big changes afoot. Sad day.
One final observation. When I met another Tvr madman, he has what sounds like a very nice Tvr to exchange some tyre's and first realised something's very wrong, I put my palm over both tail pipes, didn't think much of it but knowing how clean it normally burns, felt a bit wet, normally it's like nothing's coming out other than a great deal of heat!
Oh well. If someone can learn from these engine experiences it might save someone's engine lunching itself.
By me and Doms boys. Sat at idle when checking Mbe over and temps stable as hell and that was only weeks ago!
It's b
ksed let's be honest. I'm sure that won't be the only plug with those deposits!
A nights sleep, processing the various noises, air or pressurised water system, thumping, rattling clanging then what sounded like a piston ring breaking after hitting something! Then nothing and quiet as a mouse, no smoke or steam, didn't want to use much power but did accelerate to check noises and did feel maybe 5% less responsive but very difficult to detect.
Started it this morning and it sounds ace! But that plug shows the damage has already been done by the look of it.
Big changes afoot. Sad day.
One final observation. When I met another Tvr madman, he has what sounds like a very nice Tvr to exchange some tyre's and first realised something's very wrong, I put my palm over both tail pipes, didn't think much of it but knowing how clean it normally burns, felt a bit wet, normally it's like nothing's coming out other than a great deal of heat!
Oh well. If someone can learn from these engine experiences it might save someone's engine lunching itself.
Edited by ClassicChimaera on Thursday 30th March 10:33
Squirrelofwoe said:
Gutted to hear that Alun, me & Mike were only talking about you last night as we were discussing the possibility of another meet up soon
Hi mate, ohhh the cars been rippin good recently too. Gutted ain't the word. Unless my numbers come up I'll be doing like a lot of owners seem to do, spend another fortune rebuilding it and chassis restore, then selling it cos I can't afford the repayments
I was only thinking the other day as I merrily drove along with slick gear changes making it feel brand new, it's never ever broke down, things failed or I went overboard and replaced things but only once did it stutter and stop. My fault I'd not connected coil wires securely. Nipped up and on my way again.
I've done over 30,000 miles in 5 odd years so I've had more fun than I could point a stick at but at what price.
Maybe enoughs enough and I should let someone else enjoy the benefits I've added to the car.
f
k that Squirrelofwoe said:
It sounds like you've been drinking some of that coolant chap!
In all seriousness you'll get it sorted, just think of the fun you've had in all those miles- and in any event whatever it costs will be significantly less than the depreciation you'd have suffered in something newer & not as interesting over 30k miles...
yes I'm an accountant
Keep talking In all seriousness you'll get it sorted, just think of the fun you've had in all those miles- and in any event whatever it costs will be significantly less than the depreciation you'd have suffered in something newer & not as interesting over 30k miles...
yes I'm an accountant
I kid myself barking on about how much this car costs as the individual bits aren't that expensive, it's just the total gets out of hand.
Edited by ClassicChimaera on Thursday 30th March 12:22
pb450 said:
Judging from the facts, I find it difficult to believe it's a liner if the noise continues once you've stopped the engine. 
Equally, I find it unlikely that the liner would regain it's grip in exactly the right place, if it had previously let go when warm, once it has cooled again, such that you have a noisless engine once more when re-started from cold.
I know it's not quite the same but when the heat exchanger in my kitchen boiler packed up many years ago, the effect one Friday night in the depths of winter was to sound like a whole battalion of Panzer tanks was driving across the roof. Literally the whole house shook! This was the direct result of boiling water. (New heat exchanger (only) and all was well.)
Number 2 plug sounds ominous and perhaps some damage has been caused by some local overheating but the prospect of a dropped liner sounds unlikely, going by the facts. That said, I have no experience of dropped liners, so what do I know?
There are some good suggestions made by others on here though, which sound a lot cheaper. Good luck with this one.
PB, you may be close to the truth there. Equally, I find it unlikely that the liner would regain it's grip in exactly the right place, if it had previously let go when warm, once it has cooled again, such that you have a noisless engine once more when re-started from cold.I know it's not quite the same but when the heat exchanger in my kitchen boiler packed up many years ago, the effect one Friday night in the depths of winter was to sound like a whole battalion of Panzer tanks was driving across the roof. Literally the whole house shook! This was the direct result of boiling water. (New heat exchanger (only) and all was well.)
Number 2 plug sounds ominous and perhaps some damage has been caused by some local overheating but the prospect of a dropped liner sounds unlikely, going by the facts. That said, I have no experience of dropped liners, so what do I know?
There are some good suggestions made by others on here though, which sound a lot cheaper. Good luck with this one.
I'm inclined to bleed the water system as it's obviously got air in it. The question will still remain why have I got air in it!
Guessing isn't an option so I have to let experts form an opinion and go from there.
Any and all pointers and advice or thoughts are welcome as it's all good knowledge.
I did have what now sounds like extra airintske at the plenum, breather pipes forcing engine gases under pressure up and through intake system. Hmmm.
I better look for another paper round
Sardonicus said:
Just see this Alun those bangs you was getting are almost certainly air/steam pockets like Steve D already suggested you must be loosing coolant 
but remember this even if you have slight water loss the 1st thing to be uncovered is the cylinder heads they get a kick-in 
the most cooling wanting part of your motor, the temp gauge will only indicate coolant/water temp if its submerged its accuracy will always be hit and miss if anything other than ... i.e steam or hot air, are you sure that the s. plug as metal deposit on it though? because that would mean a failed piston which will mean its got fking hot and the coolant level must of been really low the 1st indication of low coolant is the heater stop blowing hot generally, if it turns out the piston as picked up or melted its crown I am not sure I could trust that block again without a top hat liner repair frankly, to get a piston to fail due to over heating takes some doing on the RV8 especially just street driving
Hear what your saying Simon. those bangs you was getting are almost certainly air/steam pockets like Steve D already suggested you must be loosing coolant but remember this even if you have slight water loss the 1st thing to be uncovered is the cylinder heads they get a kick-in the most cooling wanting part of your motor, the temp gauge will only indicate coolant/water temp if its submerged its accuracy will always be hit and miss if anything other than ... i.e steam or hot air, are you sure that the s. plug as metal deposit on it though? because that would mean a failed piston which will mean its got fking hot and the coolant level must of been really low the 1st indication of low coolant is the heater stop blowing hot generally, if it turns out the piston as picked up or melted its crown I am not sure I could trust that block again without a top hat liner repair frankly, to get a piston to fail due to over heating takes some doing on the RV8 especially just street driving Swirl pot is full and I've added no water in months, levels are good and heater had been hot, but after yesterday's driving with low temps on the gauge I suspect low water levels in the inlet manifold area,swirl pot full on cold start up today!
Again deposits on plug could be deceptive.
A liner once slipped stays slipped!
Mines quiet as normal when I started it this morning.
Maybe it's running to cold! I rarely get pinks and tinks when it cools down as it never seems to get hot. Yesterday the hoses felt very hot.
I'll bleed the air out the system and take it over to Dom as soon as I can.
Thanks for that Simon
RobXjcoupe said:
Going through what you describe I think you overheated and the metal on the spark plugs is aluminium from the piston or from the head.
You said the temp gauge wasn't reading hot but clearly you were. If a liner had slipped even at 2000rpm the piston is up and down 30 odd times a second so that would be proper mullered, knackered rings and all sorts.
Make sure you are full of coolant and start the engine to get up to temp, shouldn't take too long and the electric fans should kick in soon after. Check your temp gauge and see what's it's reading as it warms up and when the electric fans kick in. It may be a faulty water pump as mentioned before.
If you do need any machining work carried out don't be afraid to ask. Just ask and I'm sure I can do most things
It's a great bunch of guys out there. Thanks Rob. You said the temp gauge wasn't reading hot but clearly you were. If a liner had slipped even at 2000rpm the piston is up and down 30 odd times a second so that would be proper mullered, knackered rings and all sorts.
Make sure you are full of coolant and start the engine to get up to temp, shouldn't take too long and the electric fans should kick in soon after. Check your temp gauge and see what's it's reading as it warms up and when the electric fans kick in. It may be a faulty water pump as mentioned before.
If you do need any machining work carried out don't be afraid to ask. Just ask and I'm sure I can do most things
Let's see where we are before I decide how to proceed.
Tvr are s
t but the blokes that own them are little gems. Thanks for the support to you and all who have text me with words of wisdom and friendship.
Alun
When I first pulled over after 35 mins driving having heard the thumping sound and the flow through the hose from swirl pot to engine and the surges I instantly loosened the cap of the expansion tank( blue cap) to release pressure fully expecting to nip it very quickly as water would flow out. No pressure was there yet the engine moments before had this pulsing.
I didn't open the bung to the swirl pot until it had been left overnight to fully cool. Water in expansion tank and swirl pot was where it should be, namely half way up and full.
The second time I pulled over with the same thumping there was pressure from the cap and I simply closed it before water came flooding out.
Why did it have no pressure after a longish drive upto temps.
I'm about to try and keep my patience when bleeding the system now so let's see what I can discover.
I didn't open the bung to the swirl pot until it had been left overnight to fully cool. Water in expansion tank and swirl pot was where it should be, namely half way up and full.
The second time I pulled over with the same thumping there was pressure from the cap and I simply closed it before water came flooding out.
Why did it have no pressure after a longish drive upto temps.
I'm about to try and keep my patience when bleeding the system now so let's see what I can discover.
I'm fully expecting it to work properly then slowly air or something will pressurise the system and over a few weeks it will be the same again. This isn't the first time it's had air!!!!
Cracked block. Ahhh it's nonsense as I don't appear to have water or oil mixed and no loss of coolant.
I'll check the hose to expansion isn't blocked first. Thanks again Simon.
Cracked block. Ahhh it's nonsense as I don't appear to have water or oil mixed and no loss of coolant.
I'll check the hose to expansion isn't blocked first. Thanks again Simon.
Removed expansion tank and disconnected small pipe. Undid swirl pot bung and put a funnel in topped up with coolant, blew through end of 8 mm hose and water and bubbles flowed.No blockage. Hmmm.
Jacked car up, removed bolt in vent pipe on inlet manifold, nice blue clear water instantly, let a cup full pour out and nipped up. Did the same at the rad bleed screw and the same result. Kept funnel in swirl pot half filled with coolant.
Started engine and warmed upto temps with fans kicking in and out 3 times over about 30 mins as I squeezed hoses and raised and drops engine revs,,, plenty of bubbles and air being released into funnel. Eventually no bubbles at all.
Turned engine off and left funnel in swirl pot whilst it cooled, no extra coolant went in. Removed funnel installed bung and checked expansion tank. 1/3 full
There's no air in there as far as I'm concerned. Heaters hot etc.
Temp gauge rose to about 82 when fans kicking in and out rising to 90 when everything including plenum is hot. Perfect.
Letting it cool down.
A bit of water out the exhausts but nothing more than you'd expect from a cold engine,,, hmmm maybe more than it should be?
Engine sounds normal.
No 1 plug removed after bringing upto temp and has a decent colour but displays silver looking deposits!
No mayo on underside of oil filler cap or in the rocker box.
No 1 plug
Jacked car up, removed bolt in vent pipe on inlet manifold, nice blue clear water instantly, let a cup full pour out and nipped up. Did the same at the rad bleed screw and the same result. Kept funnel in swirl pot half filled with coolant.
Started engine and warmed upto temps with fans kicking in and out 3 times over about 30 mins as I squeezed hoses and raised and drops engine revs,,, plenty of bubbles and air being released into funnel. Eventually no bubbles at all.
Turned engine off and left funnel in swirl pot whilst it cooled, no extra coolant went in. Removed funnel installed bung and checked expansion tank. 1/3 full
There's no air in there as far as I'm concerned. Heaters hot etc.
Temp gauge rose to about 82 when fans kicking in and out rising to 90 when everything including plenum is hot. Perfect.
Letting it cool down.
A bit of water out the exhausts but nothing more than you'd expect from a cold engine,,, hmmm maybe more than it should be?
Engine sounds normal.
No 1 plug removed after bringing upto temp and has a decent colour but displays silver looking deposits!
No mayo on underside of oil filler cap or in the rocker box.
No 1 plug
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