That's what friends are for. MGF VVC with they all do that .

[MGJohn]

This one bought at a bargain price by my sons' friend Nathan :~



So, 9am this morning :~

Son No.1 said:

.
Dad, can I borrow your ..????
.

Electric Drill and wire brushes, Camshaft locking tool, Electric Tyre inflator, smaller Torque Wrench and E12 socket and .. numerous other bits and bobs.

This was the scene soon after I arrived with said ... bits and bobs... Oh yes Dad, a K-Series Oil Filter ~ Yes, I had an OE MG-R one... :lol: .... :~



They soon got stuck in cleaning up the cylinder head ~ block interfaces :~



^^ Many hands maketh light .... or should that read ... Spoil the ...











Both metal dowels present so no need to fit new. The cylinder head appeared to have been skimmed before but, using my engineer's straight edge, the head certainly didn't need doing again so was ready to refit to the block, but first the MLS Cylinder head gasket followed by the head saver shim :~





My CAMshaft locking tool in place with both Pulleys correctly aligned :~



All back together ~ Nathan had thoughtfully photographed the various coloured connectors with his camera phone which saved guesswork putting them all back :~



Then back reassembling the various parts stripped from the car to allow good access to the engine and components.



It was fast approaching darkness when they fired up the engine for the first time ~ having first rotated it [U]manually[/U] several times to ensure no metal-to-metal contact. Oh yes, some new 10-40 Oil and a new OE MG-R Filter fitted.

Then all four tyres inflated. They all 'looked' fine but, some had only 10psi ~ that is misleadingly typical with modern low profile tyres. One was completely out of pressure but looked OK.

Very useful tool this tyre inflator. Plugs into the cigar lighter socket and does the trick up to 35 psi.



Now ready for the off :~



Whilst previously :~



Click this link :~

http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/MGJohn/media/...

The car has both Tax and MoT but Nathan has not arranged Insurance on it so far. So, I was asked to take it for a spin with my son following behind in my Rover 45.

Took it for a ten mile gentle trip watching the temperature gauge like a Hawk. I had in mind that all K-Series cars are tricky to bleed the cooling system, not least the MGF/TFs because of their engine configuration. The lads had the engine idling for over half an hour prior to the drive and the gauge needle static all the time just below the mid-way index. Good sign. During the run I took it up to around 4,500 rpm. No problems and that gauge read normall throughout. Then my son had a turn at the wheel with the owner alongside. He can drive other cars under his policy provided he has the owner's permission. So he and the owner set off on the return journey home with me following. I had both front windows open to listen to the MGF's engine. It sounded superb and later, Martin admitted he had taken it up to 7,000 rpm. Methinks a tad early to do that but, he was confident of their work.... He's done quite a few K-Series in the past few years, including three of his own VVCs.

Back after the run, Nathan treated us all to a Chinese Curried Chicken and Boiled Rice nosh-up. Boy oh boy, we had a good appetite by the time we'd finished another job well done. So another half decent MGF VVC lives to fight another day ... good eh.

Oh, yes, that's what friends are for. My son has recently bought a house which is in need of quite a bit of decorating ... Nathan will help.

Yes indeed, that's what friends are for ...
.

[MGJohn]

Wicker Man said:

Thanks for sharing the photos. Looks like a job well done! How long did it take, start to finish?

Easily done in a leisurely DIY weekend and that's with frequent breaks. Within a day if need be. The lads were thorough spending much time cleaning and preparing. That being the way to a really good job and longer term reliability, rather than simply renewing the gasket. For instance, cleaning the coolant hose locations of corrosion crud build up on the coolant elbow, exhaust manifold interfaces etc. Leaving that on can lead to coolant and exhaust gases leaks.

I took a short vid of my son with my drill .... the valves and combustion chambers already treated to a clean up.

http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/MGJohn/media/...

Engine access in the MGF/TF is not bad at all if you remove all the hood and various parts enclosing the compartment as they did. What appears extra work removing stuff actually saves precious time in the overall job. There are a lot of myths surrounding these cars. One such being the job these lads have just done is and engine out task.

Fortunately, the K-Series engine in these and similar cars is one of the easiest 16 valve, double overhead camshaft engines to work on. Even the higher spec VVC engine in this car is not difficult to work on.

Neither I or the two lads have any formal training in these things. Just access to the wealth of information on the web and the simple desire to do a good job, which unfortunately and sad to report, is not always the case when entrusting such work to professionals. Contrary to popular belief, it is not Rocket Science....

One of the main reasons I take time to post these threads is to simply show what any ordinary Joe can do for themselves. I know they are appreciated and even some have been inspired to tackle a similar job themselves successfully.

[MGJohn]

Things like this make me Wild Oliver! Livid even ...

Can you point me to the legislation that clearly defines this PITA requirement?

By the way, check the Vid link in my OP where Motor Insurance cover ... is covered.

[MGJohn]

I have read every one of my Certificates of Insurance carefully since I took out my first Policy in 1959. I have never seen that caveat about the other car needing to be insured.

Plus, back in those far away days, I was an Insurance Broker placing Motor Road and Motor/Motor Cycle Racing Risks and handling claims with Lloyds of London when I worked in the City. Obviously things have changed in the meantime but, not my understanding of how important it is to check your Certificate of Insurance EVERY time.

[MGJohn]

marky911 said:

MGJohn said:

I have read every one of my Certificates of Insurance carefully since I took out my first Policy in 1959. I have never seen that caveat about the other car needing to be insured.

I'm not a nit-picker John and new to this forum due to a possible MGF purchase, but you do need to watch those bloomin' insurers on this one.

The caveat isn't generally stated on the certificate, that will just say the usual "The insured may also drive any car not belonging to him etc, etc."
It's all in the policy booklet though in the small print.

I even rang my insurers up once as I was borrowing a mates car. They said "We don't require the other car to be insured as your third party liability covers you but, if the Police stop you and want to be awkward we wouldn't get involved in a court case." Make of that what you will. I asked for the first bit in writing but it never came.

Anyway, not wanting to turn this into an insurance topic, well done to the lads on the car. Handy lads definitely.
How hard is the roof to remove? and does it all line up no problem when refitted or does it take a load of aligning?

ETA - Cool minivan!

Which document do the Police ask you to produce when checking if you are covered?

[MGJohn]

Yes, not just awkward coppers but some less clued up about such matters. There's a difference. Fortunately only a very few like that in my experience.

Few months ago my good lady asked if I would pick her up after her late night firm's do. No risk of drink-driving that way.

I used her MG ZS 120 we've had for ten years come May. So well into the early hours with hardly a car about, I pressed on bit ...

Passing over J11 of the M5, I noticed a dark three series come off the M5 exit slip road sharpish and tuck in behind me on the bypass. Closer than really needed on the empty roads. Followed me like that for a few miles.

Been there done that before so keeping in mind it's either a plain clothes mobile plod or, ne'r do wells up to some strokes, as a series of larger roundabouts approached I decided to put the nippyness and handling of the ZS to good use. Soon put quite a distance between me and the 3-Series each time. All within the speed limits of course, just in case. Shrewd move that. When about a mile from home, quickly nipped around a smaller roundabout again leaving the 3-series behind who then caught up quickly with the Blue lights flashing merrily away.

I pulled over straight away and lowered my window.

Bib said:

.
Bit brisk their Sir....just a routine check for alcohol.
.

I rarely drink and never when driving.

They had already done the document checks before pulling me over and knew the car was Insured in my good lady's name with a named driver ( spouse ). They asked my name and my answer satisfied them that all was well and they bid us safe journey.

That was both an amusing and pleasant experience. In over fifty years of driving and riding I have been stopped many times as I like to travel in the early hours. Doing that thirty-forty years ago meant you hardly ever saw another vehicle on a hundred mile run in the early hours. Do that run during the last decade and you will see trainloads of dozens six axle articulated trucks grinding away even around 2am. I was once held up for over an hour on the M6 along with thousands of others at 1.30 in the morning.

It did not used to be like that. Far from it.

My son said:

.
Dad, did you really do over 100mph on the North Circular and the Police car move over and wave you by ?
.

Yes son. On more than one occasion.

Imagine that happening today ..

Youngsters today, don't know theyze born ...

[MGJohn]

na said:

I'm glad wildoliver put about insurance cover because I thought exactly the same but also thought I'd leave it for someone else to say as most people make assumptions about insurance based on general knowledge rather than reading their actual policy and loads of disagreement ensues - note, John you say you know your insurance cover so I'm not arguing or disputing you

a lot of people think if they have 'fully comp' (that is just a name/term that is used by people) that they can drive other cars third party but not all 'fully comp' has this in the policy

these things are not PITA legislation but a contract agreement within the insurance, some classic insurance (so I'm told nothing I'd accept) don't allow the car out after dark this is all to do with the insurance agreement and not any PITA legislation

named drivers on policies are another ball game

I've got 'classic' insurance, again 'classic' is just a term used generally mine is actually called Specialist Vehicle Insurance

I have 'fully comp', in reality it's Comprehensive (Comp)

in the section of my policy called Driving other vehicles it has that the usual plus usual exclusions of cover including :-
Any event which happens when the insurance is not in the name of an individual person

that's just my policy

ALWAYS read the Certificate of Insurance.

The PITA aspect relates to legislation, largely ineffective to deal with certain aspects of car use and related Insurance. Legislation which for the average honest and legal car user, is a PITA.

It did not use to be like that. Effective policing would be better and far more effective "Legislation" rather than box ticking.

[MGJohn]

Common misconception: it is not the car that is insured, it is the Policyholder that is insured to drive the car or cars the subject of the policy. Many policies, such as Third Party only, do not cover the car at all only the policyholder or named drivers .... on the certificate. The certificate should always detail who is entitled to drive and what cars can be driven.

The Driving Other Cars ( DOC )section detailed on the Certificate should either specifically EXCLUDE the driving of other cars, or detail which 'other' cars can be driven subject to certain conditions.

DOC Conditions: On all my certificates of insurance, it clearly states which cars can be driven and never specifies they must be insured elsewhere. When driving other cars under that section, the cars are never covered. Only the Insured/Policyholder is covered for the basic legal requirement of Third Party cover.

When DOC is included on ordinary Motor Insurance Policies, named drivers are never covered under the DOC section, only the single Policyholder/Proposer/Insured. Otherwise there could be say four additional named drivers on a certificate and that means five cars could be on risk at any given time. No way would any company survive long allowing that. There are special Motor Insurance available for companies running fleets for their employees and those obviously are tailored to suit and cost!

DOC is invariably excluded with young and/or inexperienced drivers. Otherwise, a teenager could buy and insure say a Micra or Metro and drive Dad's Porsche, Ferrari or even my Rover 620ti all of which require rather more experience to drive without mishaps.

Worth repeating, ALWAYS read, check and double check your Certificate of Insurance. Memorise the salient details. It could save you making a bad mistake which could be costly and all too easily done owing to ignorance, laziness etc.

In a court of law the wording of the certificate is what will be the deciding factor with regard to who can drive what car. Also worth repeating, it is the DRIVER/Proposer/Insured named on the certificate that is covered to drive. Not the the other way around. As previously stated, the car may not be covered by choice of the proposer or as a result of the Insurance company's underwriting guidelines for any given driver risk.

Some very wealthy folks can lodge funds so that they are their own Insurance. Very few do that but, some do....

[MGJohn]

I have a Motor Trade Policy. Anyone can drive a car under my policy as long as I sit alongside them in the car.

[MGJohn]

It has always been up to the individual to ensure that he is insured to drive a car. Nothing changed there. It has always been so.

These various changes to the law are designed to stop cars being driven without insurance of the driver.

They do not do that. They are however, nice little earners for the sandal wearing, bearded types we entrust to the nation's well being who try to justify their existence and over rewarded salaries by coming up with legislation overkill. The men are just as bad or even worse.

If someone takes a car illegally, the Police see it showing as Insured on MID and so nothing is done although if that car were involved in an accident, there's no guarantee those who suffer as a consequence will have any Insurance to turn to. TWOC has seen a line of folks waiting at a Bus Stop taken out .... and numerous other hideous examples can be seen just about every week that goes by.

If that same Police observer checks and the car which is not shown on the MID, that would set the alarm bells ringing and effective action would be taken, unless instructed to ignore for some reason and yet another box gets ticked as a job well done.

Can you see the difference?

Those we entrust to the Nation's well being seem only to excel in getting far too many things quite simply wrong, always with the best possible motives and a lack of forward vision which would never justify their continued employment in a more reasoned sensible world.

Never mind the quality of Police servicing, feel the width of these ticked boxes.

Is it any bluddy wonder this Nation is the way it now is and with no signs of things improving, only more signs of getting worse.

It did not used to be like that. far from it. Legislation overkill is not the answer.

na..

Did you click on the vid in my OP? Had you done so you would have seen someone ask if the car was still insured .... and confirmation that it was as a simple check with MID will show.

... and another thing. On my property I have a small track and for years, I've allowed young lads including my own sons and their friends to drive reasonably powerful cars in a safe environment with little danger to themselves or perhaps more importantly, none to others. Driving cars which will never be used on the roads ever again. So, to do this now means that those cars would have to be insured!! Pathetic!! Here's my then schoolboy son some years ago doing just that.



Something I used to allow regularly but now it seems, not possible since those highly regarded and over rewarded bearded types have their all knowing way....

Any bluddy wonder!! A nation excelling at getting far too many things quite simply ... WRONG!

Still this legislation overkill will ensure no cars are ever driven without insurance. Guaranteed even ... You couldn't make it up.

Now BACK on topic. There has been some interesting developments with this nice little MG and when time allows, I'll put up some more information.

[MGJohn]

You are correct to highlight the importance of Motor Insurance na. Far too many folks take the subject far too lightly. Some live to bitterly regret that stance on the subject. Life can be a hard teacher for some folks. The trick is not to be one of them.

[MGJohn]

Since heard that this nice little MGF lost drive after a rapid gear change at maximum revs ~ which I think is about 7,200 rpm on these VVC K-Series. Coasted to a standstill and good old Dad and his trusty tow bar ( most of my cars have one of those ) to the rescue. Fortunately only a few miles from base. I have the technology .. :~



Initial thoughts being it must be gearbox or the cable linkage as it would select a gear and drive a little way then no way ~ total loss of drive.

Anyway, once again these lads have come up trumps. After checking the gearbox and various remote linkages ~ quite complex on these rear engine jobbies, all appeared in order. Removal of the starter motor and a peep at the clutch revealed the problem. Clutch had broken up. They fixed that today and it was again a case of :~

Son No. 1 said:

.
Dad, can I borrow your hose and funnel? We need to refill the gearbox oil.
.

Yes, my "ACE" special tool ... a plastic funnel and a short length of garden hose ...

This is my 'special mod' for filling PG1 Gearboxes. Here used on a Rover 620ti :~





This is what the other end of the garden hose looks like :~

[MGJohn]

Masoogoo said:

Helo MG John,

Rover 25 2003 1.4 Impression
I've recently purchased a Rover 25 with 60k miles that is forcing coolant out thro' the header tank cap when up to temperature. Despite the owner tellimng me that it's previously had a head-gasket change [20,000 miles ago], I believe that a head-gasket replacement is required. Also, on flushing the coolant system, I noticed a lot of bromze metallic material was present, which I'm sure is a head-gasket bodge attempt.
Anyhow, rather than scrap the car, I've armed myself with a new Haynes manual and I'm planning on replacing the head gasket and getting the head inspected at a local cyl head specialist firm, from where I will also purchase the latest MLS gasket kit.
Before starting, can you offer me any useful tips or advice?
Many Thanks in advance for your time,
Andy
Northampton

Yes, of course. Firstly, renewing the cylinder head gasket ( CHG ) on any K-Series engined car is one of the easiest jobs on any DOHC engine. Even for someone who has never done a similar job to this before. The small size and flyweight engine components are a great help when working single handed.

Yes, the "bronze metallic material" is almost certainly cure all snake oil .. It could be remnants introduced before the CHG was done 20,000 miles ago. If it's been introduced since then, that's a bad sign but still no confirmation of a damaged cylinder head gasket. Could be worn spring Valve in the Expansion bottle cap allowing coolant to boil over at a lower temperature. Could be escaping coolant from a worn hose or loose fitting one. Lots of other likely suspects which cause coolant loss which if unchecked and not rectified, will allow over heating which will eventually damage the CHG. It's possible the CHG is still intact and the damage not yet done.

Meantime search MG-Rover.org for pointers on what to look for and 'how to' if it is a case where the CHG is damaged and needs replacing. Then, before starting if you have any further questions or need more advice, make a list and give me a ring. I'll help where I can. Far easier to cover such things verbally than in a long post. PM me for contact details.

[MGJohn]

Provided the rest of the cooling system is in good shape, in my experience, a worn or wearing Water Pump on any K-Series is almost certainly the main cause of overheating leading to cylinder head gasket ( CHG ) damage.

When the W.Pump wears, coolant is lost through a small vent in the Pump Body directly underneath the Pump's Drive Shaft. A healthy cooling system operates at a higher pressure than atmospheric which allows coolant temperatures to reach well above atmospheric boiling temperatures. Any loss of that pressure results in premature boiling up which usually forces it's way out of the Bottle's sprung Pressure Cap Valve. If this condition is allowed to continue and car is driven on, the cylinder head gasket will be damaged by the excess of heat. Could be that damage has already happened meaning compression gasses are forced past the fire rings into the coolant passageways exacerbating the over pressurised condition. It is not unknown for a K-Series new Pump to be faulty. Aftermarket ones .. who knows? If as sometimes happens, the Pump is renewed and replaced with the uprated factory unit which includes the Evaporator ~ more on this later ~ that Evaporator protects the timing belt and works too well evaporating the first coolant losses from the wearing pump leaving NO Tell Tale damp patches under the car to alert the observant car user ( an endangered species IMHO in recent decades ) that something is not right.

Exactly this happened to my MG ZS bought new in 2003 when it was about seven years old. Car was losing a little coolant but ran faultlessly otherwise with no signs of leaks in cooling system. I wrongly assumed the coolant loss must surely be unseen via a worn CHG into the combustion chambers. Then out as an unseen mist through the exhaust. Continued regularly topping up the little losses and when my wife returned home after a fast run on a hot day, I noticed the fans running on fast and strongly far longer than is usual for the AirCon after engine switch off. Never done that before.

Lifted the bonnet to reveal an empty coolant expansion bottle ... Then noticed I was standing in a brightly coloured pool of coolant. There was a waterfall of coolant running from under the Water Pump location. How can that be? I did some web searching which revealed the uprated Evaporator version ( who knew? ... ) of the pump when all became clear. Replaced the pump with a new one WITHOUT the evaporator... Car continues to be faultless and will be eleven years old next month. By that time I had bought a MLS CHG but that will live on unused for another day ... If the replacement pump wears then there should be the tell tale damp patched under the car soon after engine switch off.

I have taken the time to post at length to alert anyone searching having been puzzled by coolant losses without any outward signs of where it's going. Could be the worn out pump wot did it ... ?

Taking the problem car to a garage more often than not results in a sharp intake of breath and an overly high quote to renew the CHG because as everybody now understands, "They all do that mate ~ it's a Rover. Well known fact .... mate... cost yah!" ...

I have recently purchased a tidy MG ZT 1.8t ~ I prefer Petrol turbos. Car drives well and is well equipped. Car is losing coolant. There is more vapour mist than is usual from the exhaust pipe. That new CHG still in its wrappings will come in handy after all... I look forward to tackling the job and I will renew the Water Pump anyway along with the Timing Belt. Three birds with one stone as all those components will become disturbed renewing the CHG. Pumps and Belts about twenty quid each.

Contrary to popular belief, it aint Rocket Science.

HTH you and anyone else faced with the same scenario.

[MGJohn]

Masoogoo said:

I think you're probably right - the CHG is knackered because the Water Pump is knackered and is likely to have been for some time.

The coolant wreaks of oil / combustion.

The only thing that puzzles me is that the compression on all cylinders appears to be in rude health...

A cold engine can give ideal compression readings. Things may open up a fraction allowing gas-coolant-oil interchanges with a hot engine.