The love affair is nearly over

[V12 Migaloo]

I have been keeping my head low recently, due to the following and the fact I was away on business/pleasure.
The story goes that I have (as many on here know) a XJ V12 Series III, bought new by my father in 85. Since then I've bought a X300 (4.0 Sport) X308 (3.2 Sport) S-TYpe (modern Mark I 3.0) S-type (2.5 auto) and several X-types diesels.
Anyone who reads my postings know me as a die hard Jaguar enthusiast and possibly one of their best ambassadors. I have convince many people to buy one when they were going to opt for ze Germans..
2 years ago I opted out of the company car scheme and bought 2006 XJ-D with just over 30k on the clock.
Despite initial restricted performance issues (which were all sorted) the car has given me 2 years of stress free motoring, in comfort with a good return of MPG.
At 40'000 miles I paid for a 90k intensive service. 6 weeks ago at 60K I paid for a 120'000 miles intensive service, all Main dealer. The car is as good as new, looked after like it was a classic, driven with great respect and the fact that this is my money in this car. One week after this £600 intensive service the big end bearing went.... BANG!
Guy salmon (Thames Ditton, who have been brilliant by the way) investigated the knock and confirm my worse fears. They offered to stump up 20% of the cost. Jaguar after much deliberation offered to pay 25%, but this means that I am still going to have to pay around £6k on a car thats only worth £7k, £8k at best.
Before my trip away I contacted Jaguar Customer service and explained everything as above. I have just recieved the phone call I was dreading and they will not contribute anything more to this case. I'm now left with a car that requires 80% of its value spent on making it work.
This has totaly wrecked my enthusiam in Jaguar and cars in the whole. I'm going to have to sell my V12 just to pay for this repair and then I might as well sell 20 years of Classic car magazines at the same time too and buy a freaking Lexus or a Phaeton. But I only want to buy a Jag...
I really feel sick to the core.
I've given jag customer service one last chance to at least stump up something more. I'm not expecting to get away scot free, but it makes no sence to spend 5 grand on a car thats worth only eight at best.
Hopefully I have some positive news in the morning. I'll keep you all posted.

[V12 Migaloo]

I'm doing about 20k a year.... the problem is not DPF regen contaminated oil but dodgy design and cheap components, the bearings can spin sometimes... Its really knocked back my enthusiam hence why I will have to consider a Lexus..big shame really.

Edited by V12 Migaloo on Friday 17th May 10:30

[V12 Migaloo]

P700DEE said:

Sorry to hear about your tale of woe but you might be advised to avoid diesels if moving away from Jaguar as the issue is a diesel problem not a Jaguar one. From my reading of the forums if you don't drive big miles with long journeys then a diesel can cost a lot more than a petrol (nice V8 in the Jag too ) Have you looked to just getting te engine fixed or swapped at an independent ? Should be £££ cheaper

You cant get a rebuild or get them repaired as jag dont sell the internals, believe me I've look at all avenues.
I think the dealer (Guy salman, Sytner Group) is going to pull a rabbit out of the hat and help a bit more. If anything I've learned that in the future only buy from a decent group, retain them as your servicing agents and thankfully they will look after you.

[V12 Migaloo]

hidetheelephants said:

V12 Migaloo said:

I'm going to have to sell my V12 just to pay for this repair and then I might as well sell 20 years of Classic car magazines at the same time too and buy a freaking Lexus or a Phaeton. But I only want to buy a Jag...
I really feel sick to the core.

NOOOOOOO!

Yes, perhaps a bit too hasty here on selling the 12.

[V12 Migaloo]

andyps said:

johnnnnnnyy said:

Have you had a look on EBay for a second hand engine, there seems to be a few around from breakers that offer a warranty. I'd be inclined to buy the engine, and get the dealer to fit it as part of the deal.

I think that is what I would be looking at doing, and then maybe cutting losses and changing to a petrol engined Jag. Sorry to hear about the problems though.

I'm going to cut my loses and buy a V70 AWD 2013. Sad but Jaguar have proved that their not at all interested in my loyalty. Real shame.

[V12 Migaloo]

jimattfield said:

So, if I have understood correctly, a manufacturer offers to pay 25% of the engine replacement costs on a seven year old car and you feel harshly treated? I just know this won't go down well, but good luck trying to find a Volvo dealer who would do that (been there). Personally, I wouldn't offer you anything after seven years, you can't hold Jaguar responsible for the repair cost/depreciation curve. Take the advice given, get a used engine and continue your years of enjoyable Jaguar motoring. You are very unlikely to get an offer like that from most (if any) others.

First of all JIM, 25% from Jaguar is a slap in the face and all they are doing is cutting their profit margin on the naked engine sitting on a shelf collecting dust, these items get written off in 18 months or so on the accounts anyway.
Do You think it acceptable that after 60'000 miles, with every single service at a Jag main dealer, and the last 2 being Intensive services that the bottom end on a large capacity diesel fails terminally. What gaurentees that this wont happen on a used engine... and who the F..k would spend 3 K on a used motor on a car worth what 8k at best?? Only a muppet would do that Jim. I rather take that 3K and put it toward something else.
Now I'm a huge Jag fan, I even rate myself as probably one of their best ambassadors, I travel world wide, dealing with CEO's, Engineering directors and conversations always moves on to A) women, B) Golf C) Cars. I've litterally lost count how many people in the UK, Italy, Germany, Japan, USA et al have bought a JLR product because I've opened their eyes... but If Jaguar Customer Service think they can flippently treat someone who has specified the purchase of 10 new Jags in less then 20 years, has a show winning V12 and was seriously considering a X351, in the way the I've been treated then they have got another thing coming.
Yes, I too find it highly unlikely that that would happen with any other manufacturer. However in 25 years I have not had any mechanical issues with any of the cars I have ever bought, (electrical yes (Thanks Beemer) and I've driven all my company hacks hard... I had a volvo S60 D5 for 3 years (on lease) and hardly opened the bonnet, I did about 80K and I think I only had the first free service and one at 40k, aprt from a split hose I had no issues what so ever. The however Jag was driven & mantained with care and utmost respect.
The fact the the servicing dealer is doing all they can (more or less offering to do the labour free of charge) is the only saving grace for the marque here. Guy Salmon and the Sytner group take a bow, they have done all they can.
It feels as if I've been puched in the kidneys by JLR customer service, hence its going to take a long time before I even consider whiping my ar*e with their brochures.
The wife will have to stay with the Jeep, theirs no way I'll buy her a Disco 4 now and I'll just look at X351 owners now with slight envy but thats Ok. Theirs no way I'm investing in a company that has no regard for customer loyalty.

[V12 Migaloo]

Thanks Jim for your pearls of wisdom, I am dealing with it and I'm moving on thanks. I need an oil burner because I drive much further then the cattery and back. Even the X351 3.0D has similar issues with bottom end bearing rotation. I dont expect preferential treatment, buying 10 Jags is obviously something thats not important, just a modicom of acknowledgement and understanding from the manufacturer to hold their hands up to the fact their is a design fault and help pay a significant part of the problem, 25% is not, it's purely a token amount. But nor do I dont expect to get away scot free, I would've settled for 50%. But nor do I expect a large capacity diesel to have terminal failures. When our 2.5 S-TYpe V6 was leaking coolant through the head Jaguar paid for and swapped the entire drive train FOC and this was some 2 years out of warrenty. They obviously wanted customer retention then, now JLR obviously dont need it. No JLR wont notice, so fk em and yes I am a big Jag fan as professed but I will not blindly purchase something at the expense of losing my self respect. I see that you dont have that kind of a problem. Bully for you.

Edited by V12 Migaloo on Friday 17th May 10:29

[V12 Migaloo]

Fat Albert said:

I agree that 25% after 7 years is a good offer, much more than the Porsche 996 and Boxster owners got after the Intermediate Shaft and rear main seal failures and other issues on the water-cooled flat 6.

I got nothing from SAAB when my 6 year old 9 5 V6 let go a few years ago

This just proves some people obviously have much lower expectations then I do. Nothing wrong there Albert. Question Did you buy 10 porsches or 10 SAABS previously, nope. Where you going to buy in the next few months 2 additional cars from the group... If you had and were then I dont think you would roll over so easily like some people suggest I do.

[V12 Migaloo]

Triple7, l'll leave the brand bitter to be honest and the last thing I need is that constant nagging of will it/wont it...? like I had always with my bmw which on most occassions it normally did!
I didn't have the option of a 10 year 100 mile warranty when I bought the car, in actual fact I never knew it existed, on any of the 10 new Jag’s I’ve bought.
What I can't get from all of this is how flippantly a few posters on here shrug off an issue like this and seem as if I should just “suck it in old boy” (and I am not looking for an arm around my shoulder or any sympathy what so ever, I'm just chatting within the forum as I sometimes do) as it's ok for us to roll over and except the fact that moderns cars are now built like ste... a bottom end going on a car of this class 20 years ago would've be nigh on unthinkable, at least in my driven experience.
Perish the thought Triple7 if your Trent 800's were prone to these kind of occassional, but terminal failures.
PS: Love the fantasy garage by the way, Honestly!!

[V12 Migaloo]

Norman, surprised you would roll over so easily....

[V12 Migaloo]

http://cars.uk.msn.com/features/chinese-owner-smas...

[V12 Migaloo]

NormanD said:

V12 Migaloo said:

Norman, surprised you would roll over so easily....

MayBe but I'm of the NO extended warranty brigade so sometime have to take the hit as well

And I'm of the it should not have occured in the first place, a big end bearing, really Norman, come pal, at 160K yeah perhaps, unlucky you could say, at 60k, no way. I expected more. Silly me. Still roll me over and dont bother using the Vasalene.

[V12 Migaloo]

So gents, an update.
Firstly, don't under estimate how difficult it is to get a valid assessor to inspect your car, believe you me it took an age. In the end I employed the services of the people who look after my classic. Sometimes in these situations you don't see the wood for the trees and that's what happened. I'm standing in one of their units looking over 12 different engines (all Jaguars) in various states of re-build and then it struck me, Can you investigate and asses the issue with the diesel???
So in December they found that 2 of the bottom end bearings had indeed rotated. This is not general wear & tear, but in fact a design/manufacturing fault. The guys had to strip the whole bottom end down to find the real cause. The rotation of the bearings cut of the oil supply. What swayed the case in my favour was how clean and how little wear there was internally. The visual inspection confirmed that the condition matched the extensive preventative maintenance and low mileage.
This failure wasn't bad luck, something to suck up and pay for. Their was a poor decision made at the design stage to have the bearing held in place by pressure, everyone agreed that a bottom end failure at 60k was ridiculous.
So next time any of you have an issue don't take it on the chin like so many posters advised. Stick to your guns, persevere. A lot of people chastised me for not having a Jaguar warranty, yes perhaps your right, but when something goes wrong, terminally, their are rules and regulations in this country that can assist you to get a fair and just result.
The finance company will be settling this issue. Guy Salmon and Jaguar came up with a very very good offer on a replacement fitted new engine, but it looks like that the XJ-D will no longer be in my custodianship.
Since this occurred the V12 was pressed in to doing 14'000 in a little over 10 months... 2 weeks before Christmas the engine gave up the ghost so now I have 2 jags without functioning engines.
Now the V12 is siting in my garage and I have a hole where my daily should be.
At least now I can start trawling through the show rooms and start the search for a seriously modified V12 lump...

[V12 Migaloo]

I understand the 3.0 D has modified shells that have lugs to hold them in place, although I have been advised that these lugs are fairly small for the rotational pressure applied to them, but its better then no holding lugs what so ever.

[V12 Migaloo]

supermono said:

Interested in this thread as having driven quite a few hundred thousand miles in cars and on bikes usually like my hair is on fire I've had nothing even a little bit costly go wrong.

You've just broken two engines. Is that just bad luck or are you unwittingly causing them stress?

Without meaning to ridicule you can you give us an insight into your driving/revs/speed/servicing/oil/warming up style please?

It's likely you're unlucky but would be interesting and useful to know these indicators if you don't mind...

I live on a drag strip. In the morning when the cars are cold I rev the ar*e out of them and do my best to break 9 second 1/4 mile...
I jest of course... You've seen the film driving Miss Daisy I presume? Well the diesel, as it was my main car was driven much the way that chauffer drove.. i.e. smoothly, calmly and as it always had the child seat in the back rarely did it see any tail out shenanigan's...it was well cared for and driven in a way to protect the investment I had made in it. Don't get me wrong I drove that car, I am an enthusiast after all but as I'm in engineering I do have a modicum of mechanical sympathy. The V12, well it only ever had 100% throttle input, was side ways all too often and I was actually surprised it lasted till 170k. She was driven hard and loved it.
The bh is that for 20 years I have always driven my company cars to within an inch of their lives, the last 2 cars I personally bought (V12 not included within this) where taken care of to ensure they were warmed up correctly and serviced on the button, both though didn't repay my kindness!

[V12 Migaloo]

tobinen said:

My sympathies to the OP, that must be really gutting. Not much help now, but I think given the offer you had on the table from Sytner regarding the replacement engine, would it not have been more cost-effective to source an engine from outside the Jag network and use a decent indy?

All the engines out there where quick leggy and hence you are taking a risk of the same happening again.. So Nahh not really, best to wash my hands of the whole affair and start afresh. Now I have no idea what to get. May wait till the Golf R arrives..

[V12 Migaloo]

AudiWurst said:

V12 Migaloo said:

I'm a huge Jag fan, I even rate myself as probably one of their best ambassadors, I travel world wide, dealing with CEO's, Engineering directors and conversations always moves on to A) women, B) Golf C) Cars. I've litterally lost count how many people in the UK, Italy, Germany, Japan, USA et al have bought a JLR product because I've opened their eyes...

Now you have an Audi A6, will you be performing similar ambassadorial duties for Audi?

To be fair this will be my 3rd Audi, 100cd, A4T cab and now this, the A6, but in answer to your question, No. The A6 will be pure transportation. That's all Audi's are really, staid, reliable, with little of the soul and cachet of a Jag, but who know, lets see how she runs when it eventually arrives.

[V12 Migaloo]

oh dear, seems I cant come on this page without ruffling some feathers... to give me candid retort though the example mentioned is akin to saying Vauxhalls are fast cars because of the Lotus Carlton.. one swallow doesn't make a summer.

[V12 Migaloo]

Careful you 2, my mum was from Rome...