Jag XFR knocking noise from engine, very worrying
Discussion
Hi all,
https://youtu.be/DPbD4inUvxA
Can anyone tell me what they think the knocking noise may be? This occurred after it was serviced by a JMD last week. And the fault occurred on xmas eve.
I pulled over asap, and there was an engine management light and a "Restricted Performance" message.
AA were called out and recovered it back to Jag, they are investigating it in the next day or so. Does this sound terminal?
Thanks
https://youtu.be/DPbD4inUvxA
Can anyone tell me what they think the knocking noise may be? This occurred after it was serviced by a JMD last week. And the fault occurred on xmas eve.
I pulled over asap, and there was an engine management light and a "Restricted Performance" message.
AA were called out and recovered it back to Jag, they are investigating it in the next day or so. Does this sound terminal?
Thanks
I've recently had a phone call and the the workshop technician says that it could be the supercharger that's at fault, rather than the engine. Waiting to get confirmation on this, and will most likely be updated tomorrow.
Are superchargers expensive?
It seems that if this is the fault, then they have dodged a bullet and i will have to pay for a new one. Although i am worried of the possibility of fragments that may have worked their way into the engine; is that a possibility?
Are superchargers expensive?
It seems that if this is the fault, then they have dodged a bullet and i will have to pay for a new one. Although i am worried of the possibility of fragments that may have worked their way into the engine; is that a possibility?
It sounds like it's not the supercharger, as mentioned above. JMD have called me up this morning to say that the belt has been removed and there is still a sound coming from the engine. I'm assuming with the belt off, there is no action from the SC at all?
Further investigation work is being carried out, and in their favor, no cost to me. But i will not hear back from them until Tuesday now.
So it still points to the bottom end failure, which is caused due to lack of oil?
The car is 8 years old, 77K on the clock.
Further investigation work is being carried out, and in their favor, no cost to me. But i will not hear back from them until Tuesday now.
So it still points to the bottom end failure, which is caused due to lack of oil?
The car is 8 years old, 77K on the clock.
Edited by XFRFred on Friday 30th December 10:37
Had a phone call this morning, confirmation that the Supercharger is at fault.
The technician will now sit down a create a report as to what is needed to repair this.
The shocker is that the JMD will be speaking on my behalf (without any intervention from me), to Jaguar Landrover UK, to cover this, even though the car is out of warranty.
The JMD feel that the supercharger should not have failed, even though the car is 8 years old and has about 77K miles on the clock.
So hopefully i should get a phone call later today to let me know how this pans out, fingers crossed.
The technician will now sit down a create a report as to what is needed to repair this.
The shocker is that the JMD will be speaking on my behalf (without any intervention from me), to Jaguar Landrover UK, to cover this, even though the car is out of warranty.
The JMD feel that the supercharger should not have failed, even though the car is 8 years old and has about 77K miles on the clock.
So hopefully i should get a phone call later today to let me know how this pans out, fingers crossed.
I agree a bit odd, but i'm not going to rock the boat at the moment. Everything has been written down and dated, well as you can see above.
Not sure why they would say that it wasn't the SC and then state that it was the SC, but yes i am curious as to why they have said this.
I was under the impression that if there is a noise from the engine, with the SC disconnected, then there is an engine issue? How can the SC emit a noise if it's disconnected?
Not sure why they would say that it wasn't the SC and then state that it was the SC, but yes i am curious as to why they have said this.
I was under the impression that if there is a noise from the engine, with the SC disconnected, then there is an engine issue? How can the SC emit a noise if it's disconnected?
If the belt is removed from the supercharger pulley, do the internals still move and potentially cause noise?
I've just had another chat with them to ask why i was told on the 30th that is wasn't the SC, and now it is the cause.
Their reply was that some of the "isolator springs" could have been at fault and this could have caused the noise.
I've just had another chat with them to ask why i was told on the 30th that is wasn't the SC, and now it is the cause.
Their reply was that some of the "isolator springs" could have been at fault and this could have caused the noise.
Evening all.
I went to go visit the car today, unannounced, and this is what i heard.
https://youtu.be/aVGH42EpsSA
The Supercharger has been disconnected, but can anyone else hear that rattle, like it could be the timing chain?
I was told that the sound is still coming from the SC, even though it has been disconnected as air is forced into it as the revs go up. But it's still the knocking noise from before and it seems just as loud.
I'm not trained, but when i heard the knocking noise, it did seem to come from up to. I think i could feel the vibrations on the top too.
At the moment Jaguar UK say that they are not contributing because of the age of the car (2009) and that i don't have more of their cars.
You would have thought that if they wanted to keep customers, they would go out their way.
The JMD says that it will be £4K to replace, they are willing to drop this to £3400.
So i will be speaking to Jaguar UK tomorrow, to see what can be done.
I went to go visit the car today, unannounced, and this is what i heard.
https://youtu.be/aVGH42EpsSA
The Supercharger has been disconnected, but can anyone else hear that rattle, like it could be the timing chain?
I was told that the sound is still coming from the SC, even though it has been disconnected as air is forced into it as the revs go up. But it's still the knocking noise from before and it seems just as loud.
I'm not trained, but when i heard the knocking noise, it did seem to come from up to. I think i could feel the vibrations on the top too.
At the moment Jaguar UK say that they are not contributing because of the age of the car (2009) and that i don't have more of their cars.
You would have thought that if they wanted to keep customers, they would go out their way.
The JMD says that it will be £4K to replace, they are willing to drop this to £3400.
So i will be speaking to Jaguar UK tomorrow, to see what can be done.
Seems like this might be an engine issue.
I sent a question to a Supercharger specialist and they have said the following:
Question: One of the things I’ve been told, is that the main dealer disconnect the belt from the SC, and it was still making a noise with the engine running. I have limited knowledge of the internals of this SC, but I find this hard to believe.
Answer: Usually running the engine with the blower disconnected is a clear way to identify whether the noise was coming from the blower. If no noise, blower was the problem. If noise remains, it’s coming from somewhere other than the blower.
Question: They mentioned that the isolating springs could have worn?
Answer: There is a plastic coupler with springs at the base of the snout which is a common failure.
N.B I was told by the JMD that this was not the issue.
Question: I would have thought that with the belt disconnected from the pulley, there would be no movement from the SC at all.
Answer: No, the supercharger vanes are ‘windmilled’ by the passing air when the engine runs with the belt disconnected - if they didn’t turn no air would get to the engine. Even though turning, the unit will generally make no noise without the belt connected because it is not under load.
I've sent an email over to Jaguar UK to see what they say about a 2nd opinion.
I sent a question to a Supercharger specialist and they have said the following:
Question: One of the things I’ve been told, is that the main dealer disconnect the belt from the SC, and it was still making a noise with the engine running. I have limited knowledge of the internals of this SC, but I find this hard to believe.
Answer: Usually running the engine with the blower disconnected is a clear way to identify whether the noise was coming from the blower. If no noise, blower was the problem. If noise remains, it’s coming from somewhere other than the blower.
Question: They mentioned that the isolating springs could have worn?
Answer: There is a plastic coupler with springs at the base of the snout which is a common failure.
N.B I was told by the JMD that this was not the issue.
Question: I would have thought that with the belt disconnected from the pulley, there would be no movement from the SC at all.
Answer: No, the supercharger vanes are ‘windmilled’ by the passing air when the engine runs with the belt disconnected - if they didn’t turn no air would get to the engine. Even though turning, the unit will generally make no noise without the belt connected because it is not under load.
I've sent an email over to Jaguar UK to see what they say about a 2nd opinion.
Edited by XFRFred on Thursday 5th January 15:10
DTYPE said:
XFR FRED,
Did drop you an email from your contact page the other day but did not hear back, no worries.
Google JTB00349v2, it's the current bulletin for the supercharger noise.
Have done a few now, your first vid sounded louder than I've heard one, the second not so, the JMD have told you its not the isolator, however when you were at the dealer did they rotate the S/C by hand and rock the pulley back n forth? (engine not running obviously), it would be utterly obvious if there was an issue with that part & and or charger, if the bulletin is followed then a complete S/C unit is only required if there is further damage to the rotors/bearings/housing, this will only be apparent once the top cover has been removed (that will need to happen anyway to replace either the isolator or charger).
With regard to the engine 'ingesting' parts of the charger if this were to happen then valve/bore/piston damage would be highly probable and I very much doubt the car would be running free of a misfire or far worse noise.
If you search youtube for rattling 5.0 SC noise there's quite a few vids, the design is very similar on the cadillac CT9, you may still be lucky and only require the isolator kit, still a few hundred for the kit and nigh on same time to fit as a whole unit.
The only surprising thing if it is just the S/C is that no noise was detected or reported at the service, they normally start off quite and progressively get worse, and clearly out of warranty they would have been keen to sell it to you as extra job/bits!
Pics below of the isolator kit (old one removed) you can clearly see the shaft wear from the hardened spring which breaks eventually, effectively the kit is a whole new snout.
Regards
Dan (Elite Jags)
Hi Dtype, just seen your email, sorry, it still goes to an old email address but it wasn't ignored. Did drop you an email from your contact page the other day but did not hear back, no worries.
Google JTB00349v2, it's the current bulletin for the supercharger noise.
Have done a few now, your first vid sounded louder than I've heard one, the second not so, the JMD have told you its not the isolator, however when you were at the dealer did they rotate the S/C by hand and rock the pulley back n forth? (engine not running obviously), it would be utterly obvious if there was an issue with that part & and or charger, if the bulletin is followed then a complete S/C unit is only required if there is further damage to the rotors/bearings/housing, this will only be apparent once the top cover has been removed (that will need to happen anyway to replace either the isolator or charger).
With regard to the engine 'ingesting' parts of the charger if this were to happen then valve/bore/piston damage would be highly probable and I very much doubt the car would be running free of a misfire or far worse noise.
If you search youtube for rattling 5.0 SC noise there's quite a few vids, the design is very similar on the cadillac CT9, you may still be lucky and only require the isolator kit, still a few hundred for the kit and nigh on same time to fit as a whole unit.
The only surprising thing if it is just the S/C is that no noise was detected or reported at the service, they normally start off quite and progressively get worse, and clearly out of warranty they would have been keen to sell it to you as extra job/bits!
Pics below of the isolator kit (old one removed) you can clearly see the shaft wear from the hardened spring which breaks eventually, effectively the kit is a whole new snout.
Regards
Dan (Elite Jags)
Will message you back in a little bit.
Another update
Jaguar UK have called me and said that there will be no contribution to the cost of replacing a SC. They feel that as the car is 8 years old, i have to pay the full amount. They cannot explain why the fault occurred so close to the major service, but there is no movement from them. Even though i mentioned the JTB, they told me that this JSB is not on their system and not associated to my car. What this means, i don't know, but the JTB00349v2, which outlines the nose cone repair, is not valid by JAG UK.
I have spoken to the JDM and they have still not tested the oil for metal, or for oil pressure.
I've asked them to carry our the test on the pulley, to hold it whilst the car is rev'd to see if there is still a knocking noise, whilst the mills are prevented from moving; I'm still waiting on an answer. I'm also still waiting on them to let me know if there is a knocking noise and a rough feeling when rotating the pulley by hand.
They've not responded to my question to error codes that were thrown up, the model/part number of the supercharger or why they feel it's the SC at fault rather than the engine.
I've spoken to a few independents now and they seem to thing that the isolating springs have gone, in the nose of the SC. A relatively cheaper repair, if this is the problem.
Look like i'm going to have to go back to the JMD, carry out the test myself and the get the car over to an indy, so that they can repair the SC.
I'll update again, once i have news on the pulley test and progression of the movement of the car and where it goes.
Jaguar UK have called me and said that there will be no contribution to the cost of replacing a SC. They feel that as the car is 8 years old, i have to pay the full amount. They cannot explain why the fault occurred so close to the major service, but there is no movement from them. Even though i mentioned the JTB, they told me that this JSB is not on their system and not associated to my car. What this means, i don't know, but the JTB00349v2, which outlines the nose cone repair, is not valid by JAG UK.
I have spoken to the JDM and they have still not tested the oil for metal, or for oil pressure.
I've asked them to carry our the test on the pulley, to hold it whilst the car is rev'd to see if there is still a knocking noise, whilst the mills are prevented from moving; I'm still waiting on an answer. I'm also still waiting on them to let me know if there is a knocking noise and a rough feeling when rotating the pulley by hand.
They've not responded to my question to error codes that were thrown up, the model/part number of the supercharger or why they feel it's the SC at fault rather than the engine.
I've spoken to a few independents now and they seem to thing that the isolating springs have gone, in the nose of the SC. A relatively cheaper repair, if this is the problem.
Look like i'm going to have to go back to the JMD, carry out the test myself and the get the car over to an indy, so that they can repair the SC.
I'll update again, once i have news on the pulley test and progression of the movement of the car and where it goes.
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