So we bought a cheap P38....
Discussion
Earlier in the year, Mrs Interloper decided that as we live in the remote wilderness of Hampshire and having to navigate a drive with at least two small pot holes, we must get a 4x4 especially for winter. Brilliant an excuse to purchase another motor!
Personally I fancied a series landy or even better a forward control but as it wasn't my money, a more sensible vehicle needed to be found. The classifieds turned upa few diesel Discoveries but they didn't look greatly appealing. I then pointed out that as it was an occasional vehicle fuel economy shouldn't be a concern...
So we ended up looking over a 97 Range Rover HSE 4.6, advertised for £1300. It had a peeling bonnet, sagging roof lining and recalcitrant door locks but everything else appeared to work.
Mrs Interloper neatly fixed the roof lining with pins straight out of her sowing kit! Its not a perfect repair but its effective and the roof no longer sags.
I fixed the drivers door handle, the main cable had popped out but the passenger door requires a new solenoid, so that will wait.
Driving it is interesting to say the least, I really like it. It has a laid back feel but the slighlty revy nature of the 4.6 is a little bit at odds with the experience. The engine wants you to cane it, the chassis doesn't really!
Also the air suspension is fab and works well, the idea of putting it on normal springs seems pretty sacrilegious
After a few weeks of short trips pootling about we took the beasty on a longer run and discoverd a slight over heating issue. I pressure tested the coolant system and that didn't show up much so I decided to take the radiator to an expert. He checked it over, declared it blocked and I fitted a new one.
More drivel and a dashboard strip out to come!
Personally I fancied a series landy or even better a forward control but as it wasn't my money, a more sensible vehicle needed to be found. The classifieds turned upa few diesel Discoveries but they didn't look greatly appealing. I then pointed out that as it was an occasional vehicle fuel economy shouldn't be a concern...
So we ended up looking over a 97 Range Rover HSE 4.6, advertised for £1300. It had a peeling bonnet, sagging roof lining and recalcitrant door locks but everything else appeared to work.
Mrs Interloper neatly fixed the roof lining with pins straight out of her sowing kit! Its not a perfect repair but its effective and the roof no longer sags.
I fixed the drivers door handle, the main cable had popped out but the passenger door requires a new solenoid, so that will wait.
Driving it is interesting to say the least, I really like it. It has a laid back feel but the slighlty revy nature of the 4.6 is a little bit at odds with the experience. The engine wants you to cane it, the chassis doesn't really!
Also the air suspension is fab and works well, the idea of putting it on normal springs seems pretty sacrilegious
After a few weeks of short trips pootling about we took the beasty on a longer run and discoverd a slight over heating issue. I pressure tested the coolant system and that didn't show up much so I decided to take the radiator to an expert. He checked it over, declared it blocked and I fitted a new one.
More drivel and a dashboard strip out to come!
After replacing the rad, I kept a sharp eye on the coolant level and noticed that it kept dropping but still no noticeable leeks?
Anyway a few weeks back we started to notice how fogged up it got, now to be fair its not immune from water leaks into the cab but this seemed excessive. I checked around the dash and found a damp patch just on the transmission tunnel below the matrix on the drivers side.
After a bit of research I figured it could be the matrix O rings as this is pretty common.
I found a guide to replacing the O rings with out taking the whole dashboard off, I found I just couldn't get past the air vent ducting, so bit the bullet and stripped the entire dash...
Dun dun dah!
I then brought the dash inside
Old joke warning.... so I could have it Cat scanned....
The real target was the matrix O rings, which no surprise were easy to sort once you had everything off.
Now all I need to do is to get the dash back in.....
Anyway a few weeks back we started to notice how fogged up it got, now to be fair its not immune from water leaks into the cab but this seemed excessive. I checked around the dash and found a damp patch just on the transmission tunnel below the matrix on the drivers side.
After a bit of research I figured it could be the matrix O rings as this is pretty common.
I found a guide to replacing the O rings with out taking the whole dashboard off, I found I just couldn't get past the air vent ducting, so bit the bullet and stripped the entire dash...
Dun dun dah!
I then brought the dash inside
Old joke warning.... so I could have it Cat scanned....
The real target was the matrix O rings, which no surprise were easy to sort once you had everything off.
Now all I need to do is to get the dash back in.....
I started by following this guide but got stuck at the point were you need to move the air ducting.
http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/heaterori...
Then used this as a guide to dash removal.
http://paulp38a.com/range-rover-p38/dash-removal/
The dash guide is very good.
http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/heaterori...
Then used this as a guide to dash removal.
http://paulp38a.com/range-rover-p38/dash-removal/
The dash guide is very good.
First casualty of the dash rebuild, I managed to break one of the A pillar trims on re fitting. The guide actually recommends carefully removing them both to avoid damaging them when taking the dash out, doesn't say anything about carelessly re fitting, Doh!
Not very invisible repair until I can pick up a replacement...
Anyway, dash back in...
I have to say the under dash bolts are a complete sod to line up and get back in. I would be curious to know how it all went in at the factory?
Bolts done, air bag, dials and centre control unit thing-a-me re fitted, especially shot in a blur...
I should have it all done tomorrow morning, touch wood.
Not very invisible repair until I can pick up a replacement...
Anyway, dash back in...
I have to say the under dash bolts are a complete sod to line up and get back in. I would be curious to know how it all went in at the factory?
Bolts done, air bag, dials and centre control unit thing-a-me re fitted, especially shot in a blur...
I should have it all done tomorrow morning, touch wood.
Sunday was not exactly fun, I realised I had forgotten the alarm sensor in the middle of the dash (the one that sits in the middle of the centre air vent. So I had to undo most of my hard work and free the dash back off, so out came the dials, out came trhe air bag and then the awkward dash bolts. I then fished out the and then had another fight lining up the dash to get the bolts back in.
I managed to get everything back together except the glove box which needS some adjustment as it wont stay shut.
Then I re connected the battery, had to go through the EKA ritual to fire the engine and discovered the key fob buttons have stopped working!
The key itself works, there is no battery low warning but the little red LED no longer flashes, any idea if this is just knackered buttons or do I need a new key?
I managed to get everything back together except the glove box which needS some adjustment as it wont stay shut.
Then I re connected the battery, had to go through the EKA ritual to fire the engine and discovered the key fob buttons have stopped working!
The key itself works, there is no battery low warning but the little red LED no longer flashes, any idea if this is just knackered buttons or do I need a new key?
Jacckk I tried the reset but holding the key buttons seems to do nothing. Hence I suspect I need to replace the buttons or the key. Fettler I like the idea of simplifying the security but I think that would be hugely involved due to the way the dash, ecu, becm, srs and air suspension communicate.
Jacckk the key has stopped flashing, I noticed that fairly quickly. The batteries in it are fresh And it works in the ignition, hence I think the fault is in the key. Also only the drivers door seemed to unlock/lock with the key in the door, I didn't really think about that at the time but now you ask the question yes the central locking stopped I think!
Edited by interloper on Thursday 8th January 21:51
Captain's log star date errr were was I? Ah yes, right since the dash re fit I have had the key tested and its not emitting so, we are almost about to by a new key but...
Small bomb shell, Mrs Interloper discovered the MOT was very, very nearly due. Anyway I booked it in at my work (a Mercedes truck and van garage) and it promptly failed.
It failed mainly on emissions, possibly caused by a missfire. Although I must come clean here and say I hadn't realised I thought the engine was supposed to woofle in a slightly off beat manner, turns out I had been driving a V7!
Anyway I this morning I followed some advice and disconnected the fuel injectors one at a time (disconnecting the HT leads in the same manner can damage the engine ecu on a Gems car) with the engine running and found cylinder one didn't mind having its fuel supply cut. Inspected the spark plug and couldn't beleive how clean it was...
Almost as if it had never fired!
The ceramic material on the coil pack is breaking up in places...
Possibly not a good sign? Personally I suspect the coil pack is shot. Just need a way to test my theory!
Small bomb shell, Mrs Interloper discovered the MOT was very, very nearly due. Anyway I booked it in at my work (a Mercedes truck and van garage) and it promptly failed.
It failed mainly on emissions, possibly caused by a missfire. Although I must come clean here and say I hadn't realised I thought the engine was supposed to woofle in a slightly off beat manner, turns out I had been driving a V7!
Anyway I this morning I followed some advice and disconnected the fuel injectors one at a time (disconnecting the HT leads in the same manner can damage the engine ecu on a Gems car) with the engine running and found cylinder one didn't mind having its fuel supply cut. Inspected the spark plug and couldn't beleive how clean it was...
Almost as if it had never fired!
The ceramic material on the coil pack is breaking up in places...
Possibly not a good sign? Personally I suspect the coil pack is shot. Just need a way to test my theory!
So one month and a few days and finally an update! Firstly I took the plunge and replaced the coil pack, boy what a fiddly arse job that was. Once on, the engine fired and ran much sweeter than before and sadly exhaust didnt smell quite as in-TOXIC-ating as previously! Then I obtained a replacement centre and back boxes and was all set to fit them...
Unfortunately my daily driver (Mazda MX3) had some technical issues, which has meant most of my weekends in February were spent under it rather than the Range Rover, not ideal. Anyway, I finally got back on the Range Rover , got the exhaust hung and arranged another MOT test.
As it stands I still haven't sorted the key issue. Mrs Interloper wont pay for a new key until she knows the P38 has a fresh MOT certificate! Fortunately I work at a Mercedes truck and van dealer and we have an on site MOT station and fairly understanding testers.
Mind you this is were things get a bit hairy, knowing that they cant start it, the tester asked me to fetch the car in. So I duly, performed the EKA dance and drove it onto the test ramp and left it running (assuming that the test would start imminently. I then went back to my office.
A couple of hours later I popped back in the work shop, not having heard anything, the other tester was now on my car? He looked at me, smiled and said "good, its past err but it has got a little hot, I had to put the heater on!".
Turns out the first tester had got pulled away before he got to look at it and the old heap had simply sat running for about an hour and a half before tester number 2 had got his hands on it..
Apart from being a bit hot and stuffy in the cab all seemed well, so I went to drive home. I promptly got stuck in Readings wonderful traffic and the needle zipped straight into the red, the traffic cleared and I hoped a bit of fresh air movement would calm things but no, it stayed in the red. Then I hit the next set of lights and I started to get steam! I pulled into a dodgy looking side road, parked up and stopped the engine.
I let it cool for a bit then decided to try and top up the level (I had left a 3ltr bottle of water in the boot). This is definitely the stupid bit, I eased off the cap with a rag, I really should have let it cool more before trying this, lost a couple of litres of coolant in a sudden volcanic eruption (no surprise really), then topped up.
By this time there appeared to be a slight ease in the traffic level so I EKA'ed again and got going, then straight back in the red, slight panic was setting in but I realised that another little detour would land me at an Esso garage, so I cruised carefully to the forecourt, bought some anti freeze and scrounged more water.
This time I was more patient, waited for it to cool further, then popped the cap and managed to poor 5ltrs of water and a 1ltr of anti freeze in (yes I know its supposed to a 50/50 mix, didn't realise it would need so much fluid!). Then I fired up the engine and went through the self bleed process. Popped the cap on. After that the needle stayed bang in the middle all the way home, what a relief.
I do wonder if I still have a small coolant leak or if I didn't bleed it properly after changing the heater matrix seals. I will have to keep an eye on it. Still a good result in the end, the beasty has an MOT and the engine hasn't exploded, so I would consider that a success!
Unfortunately my daily driver (Mazda MX3) had some technical issues, which has meant most of my weekends in February were spent under it rather than the Range Rover, not ideal. Anyway, I finally got back on the Range Rover , got the exhaust hung and arranged another MOT test.
As it stands I still haven't sorted the key issue. Mrs Interloper wont pay for a new key until she knows the P38 has a fresh MOT certificate! Fortunately I work at a Mercedes truck and van dealer and we have an on site MOT station and fairly understanding testers.
Mind you this is were things get a bit hairy, knowing that they cant start it, the tester asked me to fetch the car in. So I duly, performed the EKA dance and drove it onto the test ramp and left it running (assuming that the test would start imminently. I then went back to my office.
A couple of hours later I popped back in the work shop, not having heard anything, the other tester was now on my car? He looked at me, smiled and said "good, its past err but it has got a little hot, I had to put the heater on!".
Turns out the first tester had got pulled away before he got to look at it and the old heap had simply sat running for about an hour and a half before tester number 2 had got his hands on it..
Apart from being a bit hot and stuffy in the cab all seemed well, so I went to drive home. I promptly got stuck in Readings wonderful traffic and the needle zipped straight into the red, the traffic cleared and I hoped a bit of fresh air movement would calm things but no, it stayed in the red. Then I hit the next set of lights and I started to get steam! I pulled into a dodgy looking side road, parked up and stopped the engine.
I let it cool for a bit then decided to try and top up the level (I had left a 3ltr bottle of water in the boot). This is definitely the stupid bit, I eased off the cap with a rag, I really should have let it cool more before trying this, lost a couple of litres of coolant in a sudden volcanic eruption (no surprise really), then topped up.
By this time there appeared to be a slight ease in the traffic level so I EKA'ed again and got going, then straight back in the red, slight panic was setting in but I realised that another little detour would land me at an Esso garage, so I cruised carefully to the forecourt, bought some anti freeze and scrounged more water.
This time I was more patient, waited for it to cool further, then popped the cap and managed to poor 5ltrs of water and a 1ltr of anti freeze in (yes I know its supposed to a 50/50 mix, didn't realise it would need so much fluid!). Then I fired up the engine and went through the self bleed process. Popped the cap on. After that the needle stayed bang in the middle all the way home, what a relief.
I do wonder if I still have a small coolant leak or if I didn't bleed it properly after changing the heater matrix seals. I will have to keep an eye on it. Still a good result in the end, the beasty has an MOT and the engine hasn't exploded, so I would consider that a success!
eliot said:
I'm afraid you probably have a shagged block. Blocked rad could be caused by previous owner filling it up with k-seal.
If the coolant loss is slow and can be kept from overheating, then just use it and top up the coolant. You wil know when its very low because the heater wont blow hot at idle.
Letting it overheat on the ramp has probably shagged it though.
The rad is new-ish, the previous was blocked! I had recently done the heater matrix seals and I don't remember bleeding it afterwards, an airlock could have caused the over heat. If the coolant loss is slow and can be kept from overheating, then just use it and top up the coolant. You wil know when its very low because the heater wont blow hot at idle.
Letting it overheat on the ramp has probably shagged it though.
Yes potentially the engine may be on its last legs but after bleeding it behaved it self and coped fine with the twenty mile, slightly stop start run home.
I take the view that its a cheap old bus and it could eventually expire on us but its got life left in it and we will enjoy it whilst it still runs.
ChemicalChaos said:
Your block is cracked. Its an incredibly common problem on the 4.6 as they are bored out right to the limits of the original engine design (3.5). The water jackets cracked and coolant works up the side of the cylinder liners into the cylinder, where it is burnt off hence no leaks.
Yep and if google any medical symptoms it normally points towards cancer, AIDS or ebolah! Okay maybe the block has a crack but the vehicle is used pretty casually and the levels are normally watched closely. If the worst comes to the worst, maybe we will scrap it but also I do have an engine hoist so there are other possibilities... LS power maybe?!
Very minor update, new key arrived Wednesday (as mentioned the old one's fob stopped working and the EKA code was needed every time to start), finally got around to try it and....
It works perfectly and the sync method is dead easy. Essentially you hold the lock button, insert in the door lock (keeping the button pressed). Turn to lock to turn to unlock, back to middle remove key, take finger off the button. At this point the drivers door is manually unlocked but when you hit the unlock button the rest of the doors unlock. After that you can start the vehicle, all done.
Happy days!
It works perfectly and the sync method is dead easy. Essentially you hold the lock button, insert in the door lock (keeping the button pressed). Turn to lock to turn to unlock, back to middle remove key, take finger off the button. At this point the drivers door is manually unlocked but when you hit the unlock button the rest of the doors unlock. After that you can start the vehicle, all done.
Happy days!
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