Can a Sandwich Shop Make Decent Money ?

[DSLiverpool]

Following on from my other thread I think it will be a new start not a subway or other franchise, I am looking at low entry cost but decent quality. I think we have local demand for a quality bagel deli / shop but whilst I fancy the concept I have no experience of food (my missus would over see running it).

However is it a load of hassle for a few hundred quid a week - anyone got a view based on experience

[DSLiverpool]

POORCARDEALER said:

Friend has one that takes 2k a week, earns her about 500 a week after staffing costs rent etc etc....its very busy for 3 hours a day hence she has 4 staff for those hours. Her rent is 12K a year.

Thanks useful to know.

[DSLiverpool]

SydneyBridge said:

Think you could if you get a decent location,pricing right and something unique and slightly different. Might only be busy for few hours a day but build around that and depending on location,try opening for breakfast.

The bagels are the USP, the sunday smoked salmon trade the kicker and the normal boring daily stuff the rent payer.

[DSLiverpool]

Type R Tom said:

Don't forget salt beef and English mustard like à la Brick Lane

Yep and like the Carnegie in NY but as I said is this a load of fluff for little cashmere ?

[DSLiverpool]

Thanks for the input, I am torn between subway copy with bagels not subs (inc platters etc) and a Italian / Jewish deli inspired by Liverpools deliconseca that is doing really well.

Unusually and in certain places a huge Sunday bagel and salmon ritual occurs and it's not just a Jewish thing, my original idea was to just open 3 days a week as a play biz but if your paying for the shop etc may as well use it.

[DSLiverpool]

jammy_basturd said:

Good advice.

I like the pop up shop idea and the cart - I will have time soon to concentrate on it full time and will update the thread on how it goes.
So far:
No Bagel shops / Jewish or Italian Deli within many miles except supermarkets
I have found the supplier of the great bagels and cakes that won the bakery competition and are my favourite
I can afford a shop may rent though
Loads of used fridge counters etc about
Catchment area is huge and deliveries can be arranged as area is compact
Area is wealthy and a bit foody

[DSLiverpool]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Its hard to describe a old school bagel shop that I am used to, its far from fancy and the Golders green ones are far from fancy. I think Jammys idea of a pop up shop is a good one as we can sell just the components for home use or even provide a "making table" so they make their own bagel. (that's got me thinking).

Hidden costs are a killer for any business and often not considered until you wonder where the profit is, we don't need a living from this so we have time to get it right and as I intend to own the shop I can switch it to smut or summat else or even let it.

"Will the missus do the hours?" I assume not as she hasn't worked for years but I have real friends who could do shifts and I am "street smart" on leakage etc. She has always wanted a food place and I have to do a Liverpool dash most sundays to buy the bagels so two birds / one stone.

[DSLiverpool]

jep said:

There's a good bagel shop (QC's) in Sheffield City centre. On one side next door is a good panini shop (Grace and Flavour), and the other way is another sandwich shop that does everything. The bagel and panini shops have queues every lunchtime, the sandwich shop less so. Both focus on doing fresh food with a good range of choice for good value. It must work as they've been going for a number of years now, although I have no idea on what margins they make.

http://uk.businessesforsale.com/uk/Sandwich-And-Bagel-Bar-In-Sheffield-For-Sale.aspx



I think I have sold myself INITIALLY on a pop up shop with a make your own bagel table - needs more thought

[DSLiverpool]

Pot Bellied Fool said:

Fascinated that you make a dash into Liverpool for bagels at the weekend - would never think of doing that!

.

Real bagels, fresh smoked salmon, cream cheese with salmon, egg n onion and chopped herring (yuk) on a table, friends round coffee on the go, papers - its a nice sunday however now we have the kids we do it less and less. Also sunday morning drive to Liverpool and back when I had a convertible was a great blast - in a 4*4 less so !!

[DSLiverpool]

Dogbash said:

Just thought I'd add to this topic.

Local to where I live there is a butchers down a high street. They started doing carvery baguettes around 10 years ago to boost their business. You can have a baguette in small or large and the fillings you can choose from are roast beef, pork, turkey, chicken, sausages, bacon and you can have stuffing, apple sauce, cranberry, mayonnaise. Basically any combo you like.

They charge £2.50 for a small one and £3.00 for a large. People literally cue out of the door. This despite the fact there is a subway in the shop next door. Its fairly close to a college and all the students walk down there during their lunch hours. I have no idea how many they sell on a busy day but it must be a few hundred, especially on a Saturday which seems to be the busiest day. Put it this way, they have 2 people serving, each I'd estimate can produce a roll in around a minute. That's 120 rolls an hour and they have a good 2 hours each day where people are cueing out of the door.

Might be an idea? People love a carvery, seems even more so when its in a baguette!

Cheers

I have that on my work doorstep - the unforgettable http://www.muffsonline.co.uk/ - prize winning Muffs all the carvery rolls and stuff - is always busy (looks like hard work)

[DSLiverpool]

Chaps just to clarify, when I go on a sunday its rammed, I spend £25 / £30 on salmon, bagels and bits and so do lots of other people so maybe saying its a sandwich shop is misleading. Yes it will have a daily trade of whatever like a normal sandwich shop but the "social habit" of a bagel weekend breakfast would be something I would look to tap in to / educate. For obvious reasons the Jewish owned shops don't open on a Saturday but I would admittedly with Fridays bagels (lightly warmed no doubt).

This sundayI think its shut for new year but I will pop over when open and do some more serious footfall counting and size of bag watching.

So to recap. I expect most £ to be made on a weekend / sunday morning, anything we get during the week is a bonus and I will take it as it comes and adapt to demand. I will own the shop and it will have a few 2nd user fridge counters and larder fridges etc it wont be 5 star (you should see the Liverpool one its a tip) and I have picked up a lot of info from here PH at its best ;-)

[DSLiverpool]

The sunday habit of bagels is huge in South Liverpool (not Speke but Childwall, woolton, Allerton etc) as I said its rammed from 8am to 1pm with no "single" orders just bulging carrier bags. I now live on the Wirral as do a lot of my old pals from Liverpool, I will have a empty shop in Heswall "soon" which is probably the wealthiest little town outside Chester and Wilmslow (ish) and I think I can make it wash its face. If not the shop can do something else - its not life or death nor is it an essential income.

The shop in Liverpool is run by a Manchester lad who drives in from Manchester every day but admittedly I don't know his hours / days just that sunday is packed and its his only work. Would he do it if it didn't pay? Yes he is in the heart of the quasi jewish area (Jews and none jews with jewish habits) and I would be trying a new area but nothing ventured - I will have time on my hands soon and whilst I don't want to work in a shop I can oversee it correctly whilst looking for something new and interesting longer term.

[DSLiverpool]

singlecoil said:

I'm getting the impression that the OP sees this as an interesting experiment and one in which it won't matter too much if it doesn't work out. That's an excellent basis on which to start a business and a path which I am following myself at the moment.

In the OP's case it's bagels which are something he is fond of, another plus point in choosing a business, and in mine it's guitars, something I am very partial to.

In both cases not actually needing to make a living wage is a great help.

Correct on all counts, the last "try it for a laugh" business was a remote controlled ladies fingers where you could pleasure your partner from a distance, not as lucrative as I hoped.

[DSLiverpool]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not working within would be more accurate fed up with Google, ebay, amazon, suppliers, customers, SEO, SOA, SPG you get the picture I am sure.

[DSLiverpool]

swerni said:

Are you going to make then yourself or buy in?
Will it be kosher ?
If the answer to either of those two is no then your immediately limiting your market

Kosher yes and they will be bought in from the award winning Manchester bakery whose bagels I love and so do many others.
If it takes off you could bake in store but baking bagels is a long process. Note my Wirral market is not jewish so taste and authenticity are more of the sales drivers.

[DSLiverpool]

swerni said:

I was born in the East End so grew up on this stuff.
Also a very close family friend use to supply Waitrose, Sainsbury with their bagels and challah until the sold out for a couple of million.
IMHO very few places are authentic, bagels are best hot and straight from the oven and don't seem to travel very well.

One of the downsides of living in Surrey, there no decent kosher deli
Open one down here.

Reheat and http://www.statefayrebakery.co.uk

[DSLiverpool]

They are very very good ( I like "chewy" and the sesame seed top but not the bottom) been eating them for years - they do mail order, why not have a bagel breakfast ? They do a lovely smoked salmon cream cheese but I doubt that travels well

[DSLiverpool]

boobles said:

There's a family run bakery close to me and if anywhere is an example of being successful it's there. http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=http://www.burbidg...
It has been there for a number of years & the guy who owns it is a multi millionare & also appeared on "Britains best bakery".. The prices are bit steep but there is always a queue outside the door so he must be doing something right.

He either won the lottery or inherited his millions or has 10 of those shops because with my best man maths I cannot see one shop getting you the 7 figure holy grail

[DSLiverpool]

Lol yes it is, I have decided on a three day opening pop up shop type thing with lots of fanfair and "want" built into the fact you cant have it every day etc etc this will prove the model without significant overhead, if its washes its face on 3 days we can try 4 etc

The shop purchase didn't happen so that's the first step ...............