Changes to Dividend taxation

Changes to Dividend taxation

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PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
This was just announced in the Budget.

I don't understand the implications yet but thought I would start this thread as many of us take minimum PAYE and maximum Dividends, and is likely to cost us more.

Further clarification by anyone finding out would be welcome please.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
He seemed to say £5000 without further tax liability regardless of marginal tax rate, the balance at in effect 40%/45% tax.

So if after salary plus £5000 you don't use all your basic rate tax band you loose it and end up paying additional tax on a large slice of Dividends.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
Seems it's this:

5K tax free then 7.5%,32.5%,38.1%

Will the corporation tax paid still be deemed to cover the 7.5%? Presumably not.

Edited by PurpleMoonlight on Wednesday 8th July 14:01

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
SGirl said:
This reduction in corporation tax - is it for all companies this time, or just the big ones?
All by the sounds of it.

The increase to the employment allowance to £3000 from 2016 is nice too.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
bobbylondonuk said:
I think it works like this


profit in Ltd co.
20/19/18% corp tax

11k income tax free
5k dividend tax free

20/40/45% income tax
7.5/32.5/38.1% dividend tax
But will the CT paid by the Ltd be deemed to offset any of the Dividend tax as it does now?

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
Then the result is I believe a 7.5% tax increase on the individual on all net dividends above £5000.

Wow .......

If are a basic rate tax payer and take £30,000 net Dividend you will pay an additional £1875 in tax.

Well I'm not a happy bunny.


PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
It's going to affect business owners mainly who take significant Dividends as opposed to salary.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
worsy said:
Not so. It is an increase of 7.5% on all dividends taxed at Basic Rate. Dividends currently taxed at higher rate and above are unchanged.
Don't think so.

Currently dividends taxed at equivalent 40% income tax equates to 25% of the net dividend, the new rate is 32.5%.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
plasticpig said:
Well that's exactly who the change is targeted at. They are not shelling out loads in NI contributions so the lost revenue has to be recovered from elsewhere. It's still far more tax efficient for the company to pay out dividends rather than salary and it is for the individual as well.
It is, but if you want people to take the often financial risks and create jobs for others then they need to see a reward for that.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
TheHound said:
It will work as follows

Salary - 11k - £0 tax
First £5k Dividend - £0 tax
Dividend £5k-£32k - up to £27k taxed at 7.5 % - £2,025 Tax (max)
Dividends £32k -£150k - up to £118k taxed at 32.5%
Dividends over £150k - taxed at 38.1%

Edited by TheHound on Wednesday 8th July 17:12
Is that correct?

If there is a £5,000 tax free dividend allowance, why isn't the next £32,000 at 7.5%?

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
CT dropping to 18%.
Yeah but from 2020.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Thursday 9th July 2015
quotequote all
EddieSteadyGo said:
TheHound said:
I was going to do a breakdown but just take a look at this link.

http://www.uktaxcalculators.co.uk/dividend-vs-sala...
Superb link!

This shows clearly that the change to taxation to small business owners is similar to the effect of a 2 or 3p rise in the basic rise in income tax!
Yep, if you want to take £50,000 of profit as income you will pay £1,300 additional tax next year.

Interestingly though, if you take £60,000 the increase is only £360.

Maybe it's time for a pay rise then.

tongue out

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Thursday 9th July 2015
quotequote all
This makes interesting reading.

Profit 2015/16 Tax 2016/17 Tax Tax Increase

20000 2459 2613 154

30000 4459 5213 754

40000 6459 7813 1354

50000 9119 10413 1294

60000 13119 13483 364

70000 17119 18083 964

80000 21119 22683 1564




Edited by PurpleMoonlight on Thursday 9th July 08:29

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Thursday 9th July 2015
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Company directors will just have to be a bit cleverer in defining what their withdrawals from their own companies relate to.
Indeed.

If over age 55 there is scope to pay to a pension scheme and draw that immediately, 25% would be tax free. The limit is £40,000 for the first tax year but £10,000 therafter.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Thursday 9th July 2015
quotequote all
Okrib said:
Thanks to these tax changes, she will now lose over 50% of her personal allowance and face a huge tax rise.
What?

She hasn't lost her personal allowance as it couldn't be used against Dividends anyway.

I agree there is an increased tax charge against the Dividends but to claim that she will now have to go out to work as a consequence is absurd.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Thursday 9th July 2015
quotequote all
Okrib said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
What?

She hasn't lost her personal allowance as it couldn't be used against Dividends anyway.

I agree there is an increased tax charge against the Dividends but to claim that she will now have to go out to work as a consequence is absurd.
Assuming a current net dividend of £40,000 and no PAYE salary, currently there is 0 tax to pay.
Yes there is.


PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Thursday 9th July 2015
quotequote all
UpTheIron said:
am... but how else would it work? If they were just flat rates, not bands:

Scenario 1: If already a higher rate tax payer, you will pay 32.5%... so makes no difference.
Yes there is, because currently you pay additional tax of 25% of the net dividend received whereas post 2016 you will pay 32.5% tax.

Fundamentally it's a tax increase of 7.5% on dividends received in excess of £5000.

Of course if you are a 40% tax payer via PAYE and you receive £4000 in dividends, you actually save £1000 in tax.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Friday 10th July 2015
quotequote all
Look at the first table in the article.

It's clear the dividend tax is still banded as it was before, just higher.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Friday 10th July 2015
quotequote all
Okrib said:
The other question is whether this £5,000 allowance is added on to the personal allowance for people who only receive dividend income.

If someone receives a dividend of £40,000 and no additional income, which of the following scenarios will it be?

1: Personal allowance £11,000, Dividend allowance £5000. Total taxable = £24000 @ 7.5% = £1800 tax payable

2: No personal allowance as no PAYE. Dividend allowance £5000. Total taxable = £34000. £31785 @ 7.5% = £2383.88, £2215 @ 32.5% = £729.88 = £3103.76 total tax payable.
It has never been possible to offset the personal allowance against dividends, and it still isn't.

PurpleMoonlight

Original Poster:

22,362 posts

157 months

Friday 10th July 2015
quotequote all
Okrib said:
So at what level does the higher rate kick in?

Previously when she has done her tax return (dividend income only) it has been at the same point as everyone else (£42765 or whatever it is).

Is it now going to be lower? By the sounds of it surely it must be? Because if there's no personal allowance then after £31785 it must go to higher rate.

So anyone paid by dividend with no salary would effectively be losing the equivalent of the personal allowance.
Ah, sorry my confusion. I was thinking of reclaiming the tax credit against the personal allowance which you can't.

The accounting website intimates the same basis will still apply, so you will be able to have £16,000 of dividends for 2016/17 before the 7.5% tax kicks in, and assuming the personal allowance isn't used anywhere else.

But this website doesn't and calculates the 7.5% tax charge against all dividends in excess of £5000 only.
http://www.uktaxcalculators.co.uk/dividend-vs-sala...

Guess we might have to wait for further assessment of the new requirements.


Edited by PurpleMoonlight on Friday 10th July 15:31