Question for the PH legal eagles - selling at distance
Discussion
My plumber went into a store to purchase some items for a bathroom that I'm renovating. He received a quote and sent it over to me.
I looked at the quote, agreed it, called the supplying company, made one slight change and paid over the phone by card.
In this instance, who is the customer and does the purchase fall under the Consumer Contracts Regulations, specifically at distance (what was Distance Selling Regulations)?
To be clear, I never set foot in their showroom and dealt with a member of their staff over the telephone.
I looked at the quote, agreed it, called the supplying company, made one slight change and paid over the phone by card.
In this instance, who is the customer and does the purchase fall under the Consumer Contracts Regulations, specifically at distance (what was Distance Selling Regulations)?
To be clear, I never set foot in their showroom and dealt with a member of their staff over the telephone.
The plumbers name is on the quote and invoice as he deals with the store regularly.
The final order was different to the quote that was sent to me.
There is nothing about trade sales and no terms or similar on the quote (or invoice for that matter however as that's supplied at point of delivery I don't see the relevance).
Interesting one. Paid master card debit card. More interested in the actual legal principle of the matter as opposed to getting my money back (I can handle the latter!).
The final order was different to the quote that was sent to me.
There is nothing about trade sales and no terms or similar on the quote (or invoice for that matter however as that's supplied at point of delivery I don't see the relevance).
Interesting one. Paid master card debit card. More interested in the actual legal principle of the matter as opposed to getting my money back (I can handle the latter!).
PurpleMoonlight said:
The Moose said:
They have refused a full refund, yes. Offered a 75% refund - I.e. Charging a 25% restocking fee
Hmmmmm. I think you should accept that.The problem is it is not a clear cut distance sale.
Yes you ordered and paid via the telephone. You may be able to argue the plumber was their courier. But the receipt is in the plumbers name. They may argue you simply paid on behalf of their customer, the plumber, and they have no contract with you.
If they dig their heals in I doubt it would be worth a county court claim over.
Regardless of whatever potential outcome is achieved, it's an interesting case as to what the actual legal position is.
sgrimshaw said:
Couple of thoughts ..
1. When you called the supplier, did you call to place an order or to pay for an order placed by your plumber.
2. As you called to order the parts and pay with your personal credit card, then it's worth calling the credit card company and telling them that they are trying to charge you a restocking fee on an order placed by you by phone. Let the supplier "prove" they didn't make a sale to a consumer which DSR prohibits charging a restocking fee on.
3. Has you plumber spoken to the supplier? Does he get charged a restocking fee by them should he return items which the customer doesn't like or don't fit etc? Maybe he'd get a better response from them than you.
1. I actually initially called to place an order for the goods, however one item was out of stock and was going to be out of stock for a while so we adjusted the order and I then paid for the goods as per the new order (basically rather than ordering something 1500mm I ordered 1400mm!).1. When you called the supplier, did you call to place an order or to pay for an order placed by your plumber.
2. As you called to order the parts and pay with your personal credit card, then it's worth calling the credit card company and telling them that they are trying to charge you a restocking fee on an order placed by you by phone. Let the supplier "prove" they didn't make a sale to a consumer which DSR prohibits charging a restocking fee on.
3. Has you plumber spoken to the supplier? Does he get charged a restocking fee by them should he return items which the customer doesn't like or don't fit etc? Maybe he'd get a better response from them than you.
2. Debit Card, not Credit Card I'm afraid.
3. He says he doesn't want to get involved (thanks mate - don't worry about the tens of thousands we spend with you each year!!!). Apparently on these he would be charged a restocking fee.
PurpleMoonlight said:
If you are confident you can demonstrate a distance sale then you can reject within 14 days now I think, and the retailer cannot charge a restocking fee.
Perhaps point that out to them and see what they do.
Their response is:Perhaps point that out to them and see what they do.
"Our supplier charges us a restocking fee and if we don't pass that on to you, we will lose money on taking these goods back".
(Mine to that is "I'm sorry, but that's the cost of doing distance business")
Simpo Two said:
Before the fight starts, how much are we talking about/is it worth the scrap?
Total order circa £1,000 so £750 returned, arguing over £250 at the moment...Chrisgr31 said:
The Moose said:
(thanks mate - don't worry about the tens of thousands we spend with you each year!!!).
If you are spending this much per year on a plumber is this actually a domestic transaction or a trade in the first place? Why do you spend so much in the first place?To address the points above, as far as I'm aware, I wasn't given any special pricing. I just had my plumber put together the list for me so that I didn't forget anything. I'm not a plumber or an expert in such things.
The supplier have a trade counter and a retail area. As far as I can tell, they are one and the same.
They don't stock what I want instead (I did already think about that) and want me to wait 2+ weeks (but not entirely sure exactly how long) to get it. Plus they still want to charge the 25% restocking fee...
Edited by The Moose on Wednesday 4th November 22:33
Cyberprog said:
You are a consumer, and you formed the contract with the supplier by agreeing to the price they suggested and paying for it.
That they have put your plumbers name on the paperwork is immaterial, you purchased them and it's you they are responsible to.
You are 100% covered by distance selling regulations, and you should speak to your CC company if the supplier is being awkward.
All your plumber has done is introduce you, as a client, to the supplier.
This is what my understanding of the situation was. Shame I paid on a debit (Master) card...That they have put your plumbers name on the paperwork is immaterial, you purchased them and it's you they are responsible to.
You are 100% covered by distance selling regulations, and you should speak to your CC company if the supplier is being awkward.
All your plumber has done is introduce you, as a client, to the supplier.
So, update if anyone is interested.
I have a 75% refund so far.
I wrote an e-mail asking for an update from the supplier. They told me that I have to wait until they resell the items I purchased and they had no idea how long it was going to take. I said that wasn't acceptable and I wanted my money back as I was legally entitled to.
They never responded so I started the MCOL process yesterday afternoon.
Will see what happens when they get served.
I have a 75% refund so far.
I wrote an e-mail asking for an update from the supplier. They told me that I have to wait until they resell the items I purchased and they had no idea how long it was going to take. I said that wasn't acceptable and I wanted my money back as I was legally entitled to.
They never responded so I started the MCOL process yesterday afternoon.
Will see what happens when they get served.
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