New business advice please - Farm Shop
Discussion
Hi,
So a quick scene setting.
I live on a farm in the country on a busy trunk road but close enough to 4 towns. The area is a bit of a tourist destination, there are craft centres, caravan sites, destination pubs, garden centres etc dotted around.
On the other side of the road from us about 200 yards away is a farm shop. And this is a farm shop extraordinaire - 6 tills going flat out when I called in on Saturday, yesterday (Monday) when I passed there were about 50 cars in the carpark. It is a busy operation and extremely well run. If you call in at 8 am the staff will be polishing the fruit and veg while they wait for customers. You get the idea.
But they don't do anything remotely healthy or organic. Bookers cash and carry supply their fresh stuff and a lot of the shop is high end confectionary and 'Mrs Darlington' type jars.
I want to start an organic shop here. It's a livery yard with 40 stables so a decent 'captive audience' for starters. There's an organic wholesaler who will deliver a great range of stuff at a price that I can easily make 100% margin going on Waitrose etc prices. And obviously it's free - no rent, rates, power etc.
https://www.organicnorth.co.uk/
I have a field opposite the exit of the place down the road - no trouble at all to put a sign up.
I have for starters a 4 metre square room which I've cleared out - if I make money in there I will chuck some horses off and convert a bigger building.
Soooo reason for writing all this:
I want staff asap, we have a nice life already and this shop needs to add to it not detract from it. What is the real cost of employing someone full time?
Would you go for planning straight away or fly under the radar until it's proven?
Do I need a fire certificate?
I have spoken to the farm PLI about the shop and they seem cool but are there insurance requirements I haven't thought of?
Anything else?
I've never done anything like this before so anything else you can think of would be gratefully received!
Cheers all.
So a quick scene setting.
I live on a farm in the country on a busy trunk road but close enough to 4 towns. The area is a bit of a tourist destination, there are craft centres, caravan sites, destination pubs, garden centres etc dotted around.
On the other side of the road from us about 200 yards away is a farm shop. And this is a farm shop extraordinaire - 6 tills going flat out when I called in on Saturday, yesterday (Monday) when I passed there were about 50 cars in the carpark. It is a busy operation and extremely well run. If you call in at 8 am the staff will be polishing the fruit and veg while they wait for customers. You get the idea.
But they don't do anything remotely healthy or organic. Bookers cash and carry supply their fresh stuff and a lot of the shop is high end confectionary and 'Mrs Darlington' type jars.
I want to start an organic shop here. It's a livery yard with 40 stables so a decent 'captive audience' for starters. There's an organic wholesaler who will deliver a great range of stuff at a price that I can easily make 100% margin going on Waitrose etc prices. And obviously it's free - no rent, rates, power etc.
https://www.organicnorth.co.uk/
I have a field opposite the exit of the place down the road - no trouble at all to put a sign up.
I have for starters a 4 metre square room which I've cleared out - if I make money in there I will chuck some horses off and convert a bigger building.
Soooo reason for writing all this:
I want staff asap, we have a nice life already and this shop needs to add to it not detract from it. What is the real cost of employing someone full time?
Would you go for planning straight away or fly under the radar until it's proven?
Do I need a fire certificate?
I have spoken to the farm PLI about the shop and they seem cool but are there insurance requirements I haven't thought of?
Anything else?
I've never done anything like this before so anything else you can think of would be gratefully received!
Cheers all.
SmithCorona said:
I see them as complimentary businesses, not competition.
There are many "farm shops" which are cynical marketing ploys, your neighbours sound like one of them.
I think all you will need to draw people over the road is a decent sign. Maybe consider a veg box service too.
Yeah I see it as a massive plus having them over the road. It means there are already thousands of people a week coming within a couple of hundred yards to spend money on produce.There are many "farm shops" which are cynical marketing ploys, your neighbours sound like one of them.
I think all you will need to draw people over the road is a decent sign. Maybe consider a veg box service too.
I sat next to the guy who started the La Tasca chain at a charity dinner once. He said when he wanted to open a new restaurant he just found where the best restaurants were in town and set up as close to them as possible. Seemed to work for him!
hidetheelephants said:
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
A risk is that if it’s successful the shop over the road will just add an organic section and you will be a bit screwed.
What about if instead you did a local organic food delivery service - a once a week delivery day type of thing.
Then you just use your existing space to prep the orders and deliver them locally yourself at first.
If they were going to do that they would already; it's just a shop, possibly posh, on a farm, not a farm shop.What about if instead you did a local organic food delivery service - a once a week delivery day type of thing.
Then you just use your existing space to prep the orders and deliver them locally yourself at first.
I get the risk of them opening an organic section but I think with the right signs we will still pull customers in. Marketing wise we will still be a farm shop on a farm and 100% organic.
Thanks for the input. I appreciate there are risks.
Footfall isn't an issue, over the road is rammed full time and I have a field opposite their entrance where I can put a sign. Wastage is going to be a learning curve though
I am not in danger of being beaten on price. Across the road they sell a jar of pickled onions for £11 and a steak pie for £15. It's not costcutter!
I know what wages are, it's the employer costs I was after. I'll speak to my accountant.
Footfall isn't an issue, over the road is rammed full time and I have a field opposite their entrance where I can put a sign. Wastage is going to be a learning curve though
I am not in danger of being beaten on price. Across the road they sell a jar of pickled onions for £11 and a steak pie for £15. It's not costcutter!
I know what wages are, it's the employer costs I was after. I'll speak to my accountant.
Mr Overheads said:
I reckon that in a tourist area I would put a childrens play area in eyeline of the place opposite and then sell good quality ice cream and tea/coffee plus snacks. Doesn't need to be huge. Check out The Milk Churn Scarcroft. Tiny amount of play equipment, sells ice creams coffees and sandwiches.
Then sell the organic veg/fruit alongside as a starter farm shop and expand from there.
Do you have parking too?
Yeah I could park 100 cars.Then sell the organic veg/fruit alongside as a starter farm shop and expand from there.
Do you have parking too?
I had thought about kids play area but it would have to be outdoors so that's summer only, then there's insurance, crb checks and a lot of hoops to jump through
jonsp said:
Upinflames said:
Across the road they sell a jar of pickled onions for £11 and a steak pie for £15. It's not costcutter!
No but 30 mins in the oven some veg on the side and that's dinner for 2 sorted - presumably it is a nice steak pie. Their customers are prepared to pay 3x the price of a supermarket steak pie. Could you offer an organic steak pie to compete with that at approx the same price point? I'm guessing not, there's no such thing as an organic steak pie.Seems you're looking to totally different customers. They want people who are prepared to pay for nice/quick and don't care about organic. You're looking for customers who'd be more likely to cook from scratch and do care about organic.
https://www.organicbutchery.co.uk/buy/steak-and-al...
Dr Interceptor said:
You're going to need (in no particular order)
- Employers and public liability insurance
- Health and safety equipment, first aid kits, fire extinguisher etc
- Staff - easy to find through sites like Indeed, £11.50 /hr is your starting point realistically now
- Staff welfare facilities - toilets and a kitchen area
- Signage, both to promote the shop and to direct people where to be
- Stock
- Till / POS system and Card machines
- Internet connection to the shop area for the above
- Shop fixtures, shelves, bins, baskets
- Facilities for getting rid of commercial waste, boxes, spoiled food etc
- Someone to manage social media - this will help you find and engage with local customers
Once you're open, be prepared to sit there and have literally no one turn up. It takes a while for people to find you, even with advertising and signage.
Got most of that for the livery yard. Shopfittings, a till and stock really, that's all. - Employers and public liability insurance
- Health and safety equipment, first aid kits, fire extinguisher etc
- Staff - easy to find through sites like Indeed, £11.50 /hr is your starting point realistically now
- Staff welfare facilities - toilets and a kitchen area
- Signage, both to promote the shop and to direct people where to be
- Stock
- Till / POS system and Card machines
- Internet connection to the shop area for the above
- Shop fixtures, shelves, bins, baskets
- Facilities for getting rid of commercial waste, boxes, spoiled food etc
- Someone to manage social media - this will help you find and engage with local customers
Once you're open, be prepared to sit there and have literally no one turn up. It takes a while for people to find you, even with advertising and signage.
lizardbrain said:
It would basically just cost a day of your time to try it out. Go to waitrose buy a bunch of fancy veg. Put it on a table. Stick a sign up.
Of course you will probably annoy a handful of people, which does matter as reputation comes into play longer term. But the value is clear net positive I think - you would learn a lot from that one day, perhaps enough to extrapolate what space you need.
It's common to set up a market stall to test out shop products.
One of the best comments I've had. Thank youOf course you will probably annoy a handful of people, which does matter as reputation comes into play longer term. But the value is clear net positive I think - you would learn a lot from that one day, perhaps enough to extrapolate what space you need.
It's common to set up a market stall to test out shop products.
MustangGT said:
Neither of your comments on this thread have anything to do with the subject, so fails your own standard.
I think the OP should try a limited set up for a long weekend and see if it is viable.
I don't want to turn this into a moaning about smart arses thread, I'm quite capable of ignoring them!I think the OP should try a limited set up for a long weekend and see if it is viable.
I am thinking along these lines, maybe a 'Farmer's Market Weekend'.
The building is empty anyway, I've got plenty of car parking space and I can put any fresh stuff not sold through the juicer and freeze it.
mikef said:
Our local farmshop was run by a farmer friend - he really knew good produce and who to source it from. When he retired, two others opened up and frankly the produce was poor, which is the kiss of death for a farm shop. We all started shopping further away, and the farm shops went into rapid decline.
Both shops now have new owners, one of whom is related to the original farmer and again they can source outstanding local produce. Both seem to generate more traffic from newly opened cafés and attached flower/garden shops than the farm shop themselves.
If you source everything from a wholesaler, you have a low barrier to entry for competitors - and if/when they start shipping you poor produce, do you have a plan B?
The wholesaler for starters will be these guys, they seem passionate about their produce. There are others should this go wrong but I've been there to see them and I'm happy with what I've seen. https://www.organicnorth.co.uk/Both shops now have new owners, one of whom is related to the original farmer and again they can source outstanding local produce. Both seem to generate more traffic from newly opened cafés and attached flower/garden shops than the farm shop themselves.
If you source everything from a wholesaler, you have a low barrier to entry for competitors - and if/when they start shipping you poor produce, do you have a plan B?
tumble dryer said:
'I live on a farm in the country on a busy trunk road'.
Forgive my negativity, please, I'm not meaning to be that person, but, y'know... 'Planning'.
('Horsebox' permission not being quite the same as anything remotely resembling a retail traffic generator of organic seeking lifestyle peeps.) (For personal gain. As explained to the Labour Council.)
Beyond month two.
Actually, my head's frazzled by the naivety of those encouraging him.
It's a livery yard. I have 40 stables and already 40 horse owners coming in each morning and evening to look after their horses. At the weekends it's even busier with horse boxes coming and going to events all over the north west as well as coming here to events we run.Forgive my negativity, please, I'm not meaning to be that person, but, y'know... 'Planning'.
('Horsebox' permission not being quite the same as anything remotely resembling a retail traffic generator of organic seeking lifestyle peeps.) (For personal gain. As explained to the Labour Council.)
Beyond month two.
Actually, my head's frazzled by the naivety of those encouraging him.
I have permission for the building I propose to start with to be a café but I've never used it as such, it's been a 'make yourself a brew' room for a few years but I've relocated that facility. There's parking easily for 100 cars as well as staff facilities ready to use.
And I didn't do the clever accent on café all by myself, it auto corrected!
SmithCorona said:
It's improved even more since then with much expanded indoor bar and music venue. My regular Saturday afternoon haunt for a pint and pheasant burger!
Though it's far beyond a scale the OP could achieve - its taken them years to get this far.
OP, Riverside, up on a hill near Northwich, is a great example of how to do organic food at a smallish scale. Also local to you I assume. And great breakfasts!
Yeah I know the place, I think I've been to every farm shop in Cheshire in the last couple of months! That's the kind of scale I'm thinking of.Though it's far beyond a scale the OP could achieve - its taken them years to get this far.
OP, Riverside, up on a hill near Northwich, is a great example of how to do organic food at a smallish scale. Also local to you I assume. And great breakfasts!
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