Home media integration / NAS (non-Apple) suggestion pls?

[AcidReflux]

Following the show off your gadget integration thread, I'm after some advice about improving my current home media integration set-up.

Currently:
- Office: workstation PC (WinXP) with about 500GB of music and AVI media and standard PC speakers.
- Lounge: Acer Revo R3610 running Ubuntu manually switched to either a 15" monitor or a DLP projector and wired to 5.1 DVD/amp + speakers. (We don't have TV in the house.)
- Android phone x 2 (Desire HD + Desire).
- Android tablet (Honeycomb). Docked to speakers in the kitchen.
- network is gigabit within the office and Solwise 500AV homeplugs to the lounge, with wifi for the Androids.

Currently we watch iPlayer/4oD on the workstation or the tablet. We watch AVIs on the workstation, Revo and the tablet (in bed). We don't play a lot of music but when we do it tends to be from the tablet on the speakers in the kitchen.

I think I want to buy a NAS so that the workstation doesn't need to be switched on all the time and so that automatic backups are easy. The Synology ones seem to have a useful interface. Currently I download torrents with Transmission on the Revo in the lounge and ideally the NAS could do this instead if it provides this service. Any NAS recommendations based on this?

I'm considering installing XBMC on the Revo - from the XMBC forums it looks as though I could remote-control this with Android. Has anybody got this working successfully themselves?

Streaming video from a network share to the Androids already works OK with Moboplayer and ES File Explorer. It's a bit clunky so if there's a neater solution to this then I'm all ears.

I don't think the default music player on the tablet can stream music from a network share and anyway, in a perfect world the tablet would simply be a remote control for a central music server that could stream music to the speakers both in the lounge and the kitchen. Should I do this with something like a Squeezebox or Sonos? Seems like overkill in the lounge when I've already got a perfectly good computer sitting there that could receive a stream and play it to the amp.

I've probably forgotten some vital piece of info but if anybody can offer me some advice (other than replace all this gear with Apple ) then I'd welcome the input.

[AcidReflux]

Thank you all for your replies.

Nimbus said:

Normally I'd recommend a QNAP too, been using one for years and never had any issues. Its the simple and easy solution.

I'll investigate QNAP then. A neighbour just bought Synology and is v.pleased with the interface which is the only reason I'm leaning towards them.

Nimbus said:

But... if you dont mind getting your hands a little dirty, I'd look at the HP ProLiant N36L MicroServer, I'm pretty sure they are still available for about ~£140, then stick in a couple of 2Tb disks, Raided of course, and a USB stick running Freenas.

It will still have 2 caddies left for future disk expansion, and should be able to do all you want.

There's plenty of guides out there on how to set this up, and its very easy.

Currently I have one of these running a version of ubuntu so it does the SABNZBD and Raid thing, ( thus being my NAS ), and runs as my MYTHTV backend, so its recording Freesat 24/7 for me.. works a treat and is 'almost' silent.

Although it's technically superior, I don't think I've got the time or the energy to start trying to get a box like this set up. I nearly gave up trying to get the Revo set up and debugged a couple of years ago, and even now trying to install XBMC this evening I got irritated with the need to piss about with apt-get, dependencies and so on in the terminal. Life's too short. The simplicity of a NAS device appeals at the moment.

M@verick said:

When you say "we watch Iplayer or 4oD on the tablet" - have you tried tvcatchup ? (www.tvcatchup.com) It runs all the freeview channels in one place, and they are looped circa 2 seconds behind live.

Haven't tried anything like that because I assume I'd need a TV licence to use it, and we don't have one.

M@verick said:

I am thinking that combining Itunes server from the NAS (you can insert any non-apple tunes server here)

I definitely don't want to install iTunes because of what I perceive to be its proprietary limitations, bloat, and lack of compatibility with Android. Suggestions would be welcome for other music servers that either the NAS could handle or some other mechanism (Sonos/Squeezebox) would distribute.

[AcidReflux]

Thanks scovette for the ideas. I'll check them out.

In the meantime I've been playing with XBMC on my WinXP workstation and using Android as the remote. It works really well. If I can get XBMC running on the Ubuntu box in the lounge then I could use that as my music player for the lounge + kitchen as well as the video player for the lounge. (There's an audio wire running under the floor from kitchen to lounge.) I could control it with either the tablet or the phones, which would make it fine for parties. The only thing I'd struggle with is playing videos on the docked tablet, because that needs an audio connection to the speakers, which would have to be dedicated to the XBMC player. Hmm.

[AcidReflux]

Hooli said:

I think not. I believe the TV licence is for live broadcasts, ie watching them as they broadcast them. So the 2sec delay on that service means they aren't being watched live & don't need a licence.
Check over in SP&L but that seems to be the normal answer if I've read things right in the past.

Ah. Interesting. Thanks for the info. If this is a feature of the tvcatchup service I expect it'll be on their own site somewhere.
It sounds like a bit of a technicality though. I don't fancy getting into any arguments with the TV Licencing people about it.

[AcidReflux]

Just been looking at the QNAP website and it's giving me a headache. Long on marketing fluff and short on facts. But they do look like flexible machines and get good reviews. The Android app gets v.poor reviews though and seems to lag behind the iOS version. Anybody know whether any other apps could be used instead of QNAP's own app?

I'll investigate the SqueezeBox route too - thanks again scovette.

[AcidReflux]

rsv gone! said:

The interface on the Synology drives gets updated regularly. Latest update it like a GUI OS. You can road-test it here;

http://www.synology.com/products/dsm_livedemo.php?...

Thanks for the feedback and the link. I'll have a play with that later on.

ZesPak said:

My 2 cents:

I don't have a TV or any device with a DLNA input capability, nor a screen with HDMI to receive output from something like a Popbox. The projector in the lounge receives a VGA input from the Revo, which works fine. When the bulb blows we'll probably upgrade to a projector with HDMI input. But thanks anyway.
I'll check out the iOmega NAS products too. At the moment the choice of NAS is beginning to come down to the music server software built in to each option, although I'm still not convinced which option I need.

HellDiver said:

I use one of the HP Microservers. It boots FreeNAS 7 off a USB stick (that fits on the dedicated USB socket inside the case). It's currently got two 1TB Samsung drives in RAIDZ1, soon to be upgraded. It runs Transmission, has an iTunes server, web server, SQL server that has the XBMC machines linked to it, so you can see what stuff you've watched no matter what XBMC machine you look at. You can even pause a video downstairs, go upstairs and start playing the same video from the same point.

That sounds very cool. If only I knew what the hell I was doing!



In other news...
My attempt to get XBMC working under Ubuntu on my Revo has ended with frustration. XBMC kindly disabled the nVidia driver so the Compiz effects have been switched off and XBMC itself ran with a frame rate of about 0.2. Now I can't re-enable the nVidia driver even after uninstalling XBMC. No idea what to do or how to debug this. God, I get irritated by Linux sometimes. I don't have the time to learn a new OS.

On a positive note, my Solwise 500AV Homeplugs arrived and are excellent! Rock-solid connection and transfer speeds between the Revo and the office. When I get the correct power brick for my new gigabit switch I hope to see a further improvement.

[AcidReflux]

HellDiver said:

I use one of the HP Microservers. It boots FreeNAS 7 off a USB stick (that fits on the dedicated USB socket inside the case). It's currently got two 1TB Samsung drives in RAIDZ1, soon to be upgraded. It runs Transmission, has an iTunes server, web server, SQL server that has the XBMC machines linked to it, so you can see what stuff you've watched no matter what XBMC machine you look at. You can even pause a video downstairs, go upstairs and start playing the same video from the same point.

I run a PC in the living room, a jailbroken AppleTV2 in the bedroom, an Airport Express in the kitchen, and two laptops.

The Microserver only uses about 30W idle with 2 drives in it. I got it for £99 when HP were doing their £100 rebate about 6 months ago.

OK, given how cheap these are, their expandability, and that Windows Home Server 2011 is only £35 if all goes wrong (?) this is looking more interesting.

What was involved in getting FreeNAS to work? Did it need much messing about with drivers and stuff? And does yours have a GUI front end or is it all terminal-based? How do you install things like the iTunes Server? (Using the web front-end or a GUI?)

So many questions, so little time.

Edited by AcidReflux on Wednesday 19th October 14:21

[AcidReflux]

scovette said:

A friend has the Openelec build of XBMC on his Revo - there's a specific ION version on the their website that comes with all the drivers, etc. Apparently really easy to set up and quick in use. Might be worth a try?

Thanks for the tip.
I tried creating a bootable USB stick last night with XBMC Live, but I created it on my workstation which is a dual-boot Ubuntu/WinXP machine. All seemed to go well until I plugged it into the Revo to boot XBMC. The Grub loader that the XBMC CD created on the USB stick had all of the kernels from my workstation and no mention of XBMC. I had to laugh.

[AcidReflux]

So, an update: after taking the plunge and updating the Revo to Ubuntu 10.04, XBMC installed perfectly and runs very smoothly. The Android remote works very nicely so this must be the video solution for the lounge now. The build and playback of a music playlist is a bit clunky with XBMC so I need to see if it can be improved. Maybe a different XBMC skin would be more intuitive. A couple of SqueezeBoxes would be a slick solution but not at £240 each. Maybe I'll hard-wire the lounge XBMC to the kitchen speakers. But then we can't have different things playing in the lounge and kitchen. Hmm.

I considered Twonky for a while earlier but the Android app gets baaaad reviews. Plex is also an option. If only there was an XBMC front-end for Android, but the developers seem to have ruled this out for the forseeable future.

Looks like the HP Microserver will be the NAS though.

[AcidReflux]

14-7 said:

Remember that the offer ends at the end of the month and unless they have your paperwork by that time you won't get the cashback.

According to this page on the HP website, the paperwork needs to be received by 30th November in order for the cashback claim to be accepted:
http://www8.hp.com/uk/en/campaign/proliantmicroser...
...which gives me plenty of time.

Can anybody recommend a particular 2TB drive for this machine please? I don't think I need to bother with RAID because all my important stuff is already backed up weekly to a USB drive that I keep away from the house, so a single 2TB drive would be plenty. But there's a bewildering range of 2TB SATA drives on eBuyer. Any reason to choose something other than the cheapest options, which for £80 are:
WD: http://www.ebuyer.com/264274-wd-2tb-3-5-sata-iii-6...
Samsung: http://www.ebuyer.com/237908-samsung-hd204ui-spinp...
Seagate: http://www.ebuyer.com/248582-seagate-2tb-3-5-sata-...

[AcidReflux]

Nimbus said:

Putting freenas on is a peace of p**s.....

I'd do something roughly like..
buy hp server, + 2 2Tb disks..
open server, remove the supplied hd, ( its only small and taking up a bay...)
put your 2 new disks in the caddys and install in first 2 bays
burn freenas image onto usb stick, then put stick in the internal on board usb slot..
plug in keyboard/monitor
boot hp server
install freenas onto usb stick
stick hp server somewhere ( garage ? )
reboot it, then log on from main pc, via web gui..
configure the server options to what you need..
I'd recommend setting the 2 disks up as mirroring raid, so you dont lose anything...
transfer your data
job done...

I had a play with freenas when building my hp box, and reckon it took about 30 minutes, start to finish..

Once you've done the initial install, its all web gui, and you wont need any drivers, it works out of the box for the hp server.

My Microserver arrived this morning and I'm downloading the .iso of FreeNAS 8 as I type. Off to Google now to find out how to burn a bootable image onto a USB stick. I want to install FreeNAS onto the 250GB drive that's in the server - I don't need that disk for anything else.

The USB slot on the motherboard: where is it? The booklet that came with the server doesn't mention it. There's a slot at the front of the mobo next to the first drive bay. Is that it?

[AcidReflux]

So I think my box is up and running. It's booted from the USB disk with FreeNAS and I'm playing with the web interface. So far so good.

In case anybody else needs this info after buying one of these ProLiant boxes, this is the process I followed to get it booting with FreeNAS on the USB:
http://forums.freenas.org/showthread.php?251-How-t...

FreeNAS simply boots to a terminal window but with a handy menu mechanism that seems pretty straightforward to use. But with the web GUI I doubt I'll need the terminal much at all. I've got a bit of a learning curve with the FreeNAS configuration though to get it set up and shared on my Windows workgroup so all my machines can see it.

The HP microserver has a gentle fan hum sitting on my desk, but when slotted away underneath I suspect I'll hardly notice it. It's a dull-looking little box but has an air of unassuming competence about it.

[AcidReflux]

Nimbus said:

Yepp, thats the one, you can see the usb slot on the motherboard when you open the front door, its on the left next to the cmos battery.

You don't really want to install freenas to the 250gb...
save that for data only and install freenas to a usb stick on the mobo, that way you get 4 free dedicated slots for hd... makes it easier for using raid ( you need at least two slots per raid array ), and for upgrading your storage in the years to come

Cheers. At the moment FreeNAS is booting from my USB stick, so perhaps I'll leave that arrangement in place and leave that 250GB disk free. For the short- to medium-term I've got no plans to bother with RAID but long-term, who knows.

I'm away from home at the moment. I couldn't get the NAS visible on my Windows network when I tried quickly yesterday morning. I'll play with it properly later on. There must be a step-by-step guide online somewhere....

[AcidReflux]

After another couple of hours in frustration poking at the many options within the FreeNAS web GUI I've managed to create a shared 250GB volume that's visible on both my Windows machine and my Ubuntu media player. So I thought I'd install the 2TB disk and begin copying files over in earnest.

Pulled out a free HDD holder to discover that I needed four low-profile screws to hold the disk in and of course I don't have any. FFS!



... and then I noticed the row of screws set into the bottom of the door ready for exactly this purpose. This little box is impressive.

[AcidReflux]

Irritatingly I'm not getting very good network speeds yet. Copying large files to the box is taking much more time than copying them between (for example) workstation and laptop. Network is Gigabit wired but the data transfer isn't continuous (according to Windows task manager). It's a pulsing transfer, whose peaks are at 35% network usage and whose troughs are zero. Pulses have a frequency of just a couple of seconds. The CPU and memory graphs on the FreeNAS web GUI are far from maxxed out.

If anybody has any bright ideas, I'd love to hear 'em.

[AcidReflux]

lestag said:

try teracopy for copyingand see if that speeds it up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teracopy

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to update the ProLiant's firmware first to see whether that helps. After reading a few forum posts I've tried mounting my 2TB disk as ZFS in both normal and 'forced 4102-byte' mode (or whatever it's called), but without success.