Why I drive faster in TVR than in SLK350 - discuss
Discussion
I'm the very recent owner of a 55 plate immaculate SLK350 with 20K on the clock.
As someone who currently owns a few older cars, it's giving me the same sort of amazement at how cars have developed in terms of technology and engineering as I felt when I drove my first 320i BMW in 1987 after previously ragging around in XR3i's and Pug 205 GTi's (no speed cameras then - oh bliss...)
However, interestingly, and it is I admit early days (I've only had it for a month), I'm finding that it doesn't give me that urge to floor it when I hit open road.
A classic example is when I drive my '97 Chimaera 4.00.
In the TVR, when I hit a nice familiar stretch of open dual carriageway, the first thing I want to do (or is it what my car wants me to do?) is to give it a good clear out. You know, drop it into 3rd and get a hit of the rolling musical throb of the ancient push rod V8 which rewards me with a relaxed but deceptively brisk surge of torque from 4000 to 5250rpm. Feeling the car squat I watch the rev counter swing round with an emotion of knowing familiarity and a thrill of intuitive pleasure, (a well-built kit car in all honesty - crude but visceral) until my next change point (you can take it to 6500rpm but there's no real point really), slick it into 4th and rip it up to 125mph in the blink of an eye before I think of cameras, the old bill, bans, points etc….. and then throttle back to a steady 80, having left the proles their tin boxes many yards behind........ lovely.
Now in the SLK, I hit the same stretch of road. Where’s that urge? None. No manual gear box, just a hyper efficient 6 gear seamless drive, and where’s the noise? No glorious V8 but, to be frank, a bit of a magnificent fart, building and building, just like the Indian had last night.
And you have to cane it. At the last 500rpm to the red line it really, really shifts, far faster on a per second, per second measurement than the TVR (come on chaps, remember your O’ level physics).
But that surge is only for a second or two whereas the TVR, which never feels really “punch-in-the-back” quick, probably just has the edge on overall pace
It’s too efficient. Too Teutonic and with no manual, somehow less involving.
Don’t get me wrong, I like this car (except for its looks) but perhaps I should hard wire the battery onto my d*ck or something because it doesn’t say to me “go for it”.
Still, that’s no bad thing I suppose.
What is has done though is give me the Merc bug. So much so that I have just treated myself to a brand spankers E250 company car (arrives next month).
As a biker, I love manual (or foot operated) gears. It makes you constantly think and plan and involves you with the machine. But for a fast 2 seater not have a manual is odd and not something I’d buy again I think. Yes, it has flappy paddle nonsense but it’s not the same.
But who knows, early days and I may change my mind.
Interestingly, the stats are
Merc – 1350kgs + driver (me) 95kgs - 269bhp = (converted to UK tons) – 188 bhp per ton
TVR – 1050 kgs + 95kgs – 190 bhp = (converted to UK tons) – 169 bhp per ton
TVR claim power output from the 4.00 L TVR is 230bhp – absolute rubbish of course.
The final question though is, which would I prefer to take on a track day?
Well, the TVR of course.
As someone who currently owns a few older cars, it's giving me the same sort of amazement at how cars have developed in terms of technology and engineering as I felt when I drove my first 320i BMW in 1987 after previously ragging around in XR3i's and Pug 205 GTi's (no speed cameras then - oh bliss...)
However, interestingly, and it is I admit early days (I've only had it for a month), I'm finding that it doesn't give me that urge to floor it when I hit open road.
A classic example is when I drive my '97 Chimaera 4.00.
In the TVR, when I hit a nice familiar stretch of open dual carriageway, the first thing I want to do (or is it what my car wants me to do?) is to give it a good clear out. You know, drop it into 3rd and get a hit of the rolling musical throb of the ancient push rod V8 which rewards me with a relaxed but deceptively brisk surge of torque from 4000 to 5250rpm. Feeling the car squat I watch the rev counter swing round with an emotion of knowing familiarity and a thrill of intuitive pleasure, (a well-built kit car in all honesty - crude but visceral) until my next change point (you can take it to 6500rpm but there's no real point really), slick it into 4th and rip it up to 125mph in the blink of an eye before I think of cameras, the old bill, bans, points etc….. and then throttle back to a steady 80, having left the proles their tin boxes many yards behind........ lovely.
Now in the SLK, I hit the same stretch of road. Where’s that urge? None. No manual gear box, just a hyper efficient 6 gear seamless drive, and where’s the noise? No glorious V8 but, to be frank, a bit of a magnificent fart, building and building, just like the Indian had last night.
And you have to cane it. At the last 500rpm to the red line it really, really shifts, far faster on a per second, per second measurement than the TVR (come on chaps, remember your O’ level physics).
But that surge is only for a second or two whereas the TVR, which never feels really “punch-in-the-back” quick, probably just has the edge on overall pace
It’s too efficient. Too Teutonic and with no manual, somehow less involving.
Don’t get me wrong, I like this car (except for its looks) but perhaps I should hard wire the battery onto my d*ck or something because it doesn’t say to me “go for it”.
Still, that’s no bad thing I suppose.
What is has done though is give me the Merc bug. So much so that I have just treated myself to a brand spankers E250 company car (arrives next month).
As a biker, I love manual (or foot operated) gears. It makes you constantly think and plan and involves you with the machine. But for a fast 2 seater not have a manual is odd and not something I’d buy again I think. Yes, it has flappy paddle nonsense but it’s not the same.
But who knows, early days and I may change my mind.
Interestingly, the stats are
Merc – 1350kgs + driver (me) 95kgs - 269bhp = (converted to UK tons) – 188 bhp per ton
TVR – 1050 kgs + 95kgs – 190 bhp = (converted to UK tons) – 169 bhp per ton
TVR claim power output from the 4.00 L TVR is 230bhp – absolute rubbish of course.
The final question though is, which would I prefer to take on a track day?
Well, the TVR of course.
Edited by Slohmo on Saturday 25th October 21:14
Hi Tonys and fellow Tivvie owner.. respec! (etc, etc)
Interesting thing about "quoted" figures.
I was seriously thinking about getting in my old beast Supercharged this year and, if business goes well, may do so next year - wacks it up to 270bhp on rear wheel....
The guy who can do this is Ipswich way and we had a few chats.
He said that on the dyno, (BACK WHEEL, not crank), he usually finds on 4.0 Tivvies between 190 and 200 bhp. - so allowing for a 75% power loss from the crank, that actually makes the TVR chuck out 253bhp (mark up/mark down scenario)
However, TVR say 240 bhp so that must be a crank measurement in ideal conditions with 17% to 20% loss of power to rear wheels.
I always go for the back wheel bhp (must be the biker in me)
That said, i don't know if the 268bhp from the SLK is crank or wheel (but bet you're bottom dollar it's crank) so it's probably more like 220 odd bhp rear wheel on same % draw down as TVR.
The 500s are only around 235bhp (rear wheel)!
What one must remember is that TVRs are very light (the 4000cc is 1050 kg) so on a power to weight ratio, it's good and also it had huge torque.
The old SDI 3.5 was probably 125 rear wheel i would say (never believe manufacturers figures.....)
As you say, manual Jag F-Type.....
Interesting thing about "quoted" figures.
I was seriously thinking about getting in my old beast Supercharged this year and, if business goes well, may do so next year - wacks it up to 270bhp on rear wheel....
The guy who can do this is Ipswich way and we had a few chats.
He said that on the dyno, (BACK WHEEL, not crank), he usually finds on 4.0 Tivvies between 190 and 200 bhp. - so allowing for a 75% power loss from the crank, that actually makes the TVR chuck out 253bhp (mark up/mark down scenario)
However, TVR say 240 bhp so that must be a crank measurement in ideal conditions with 17% to 20% loss of power to rear wheels.
I always go for the back wheel bhp (must be the biker in me)
That said, i don't know if the 268bhp from the SLK is crank or wheel (but bet you're bottom dollar it's crank) so it's probably more like 220 odd bhp rear wheel on same % draw down as TVR.
The 500s are only around 235bhp (rear wheel)!
What one must remember is that TVRs are very light (the 4000cc is 1050 kg) so on a power to weight ratio, it's good and also it had huge torque.
The old SDI 3.5 was probably 125 rear wheel i would say (never believe manufacturers figures.....)
As you say, manual Jag F-Type.....
Hi Eldar -yes, I think I need to give it time.
Interesting though that the TVR's top speed is 150 dead and you say an unleashed 350 can do 185.
Wow!
Must be the gearing.
I will double check, but I would put money on it that my 350 has only 6 gears.
I've played with the manual tiptronic shift option and only ever got to "6" on the read out.
I think you've got the 300 brake newer post 2005 model! A bit quicker methinks...
I'll read the manual tomorrow.
Interesting though that the TVR's top speed is 150 dead and you say an unleashed 350 can do 185.
Wow!
Must be the gearing.
I will double check, but I would put money on it that my 350 has only 6 gears.
I've played with the manual tiptronic shift option and only ever got to "6" on the read out.
I think you've got the 300 brake newer post 2005 model! A bit quicker methinks...
I'll read the manual tomorrow.
Apologies Eldar -I found the 7th gear today!
As you may have noticed, I'm making a rather dimwitted and plodding fist of adapting from 20th Century automobile technology (TVR Chimaera design in the early 90's, not great at low revs and all rather crude) to an incredibly tight and amazingly designed piece of 21st Century kit (all the gubbins, seat, wheel, mirrors, roof etc seems to have an electric motor driving it.. it must have about 15 motors in it - think of the weight!)
And I'm starting to get it - toeing it our of corners etc - my God it's planted - feels more planted than the TVR.
Actually, a rather worrying thing happened coming back form the gymn today - it got stuck in 3rd - only when I stopped at lights did it go to 2nd and then it stopped even doing that.
Tried fiddling with manual, C and S - no effect.
Limped home and when I stopped and restarted, it seems to reboot itself and returned to normal - any ideas?
As you may have noticed, I'm making a rather dimwitted and plodding fist of adapting from 20th Century automobile technology (TVR Chimaera design in the early 90's, not great at low revs and all rather crude) to an incredibly tight and amazingly designed piece of 21st Century kit (all the gubbins, seat, wheel, mirrors, roof etc seems to have an electric motor driving it.. it must have about 15 motors in it - think of the weight!)
And I'm starting to get it - toeing it our of corners etc - my God it's planted - feels more planted than the TVR.
Actually, a rather worrying thing happened coming back form the gymn today - it got stuck in 3rd - only when I stopped at lights did it go to 2nd and then it stopped even doing that.
Tried fiddling with manual, C and S - no effect.
Limped home and when I stopped and restarted, it seems to reboot itself and returned to normal - any ideas?
Thanks chaps - all very useful
My understanding is the the 450 Chim is the sweetest balance between the power of the 500 and the mild mannered 400.
To be honest, the 400 just isn't really fast enough to compete with all the quick stuff that's out there at the moment.
Which is why I may supercharge it.......
My understanding is the the 450 Chim is the sweetest balance between the power of the 500 and the mild mannered 400.
To be honest, the 400 just isn't really fast enough to compete with all the quick stuff that's out there at the moment.
Which is why I may supercharge it.......
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