C63 Used Prices
Discussion
Two things a bit odd:
1. There appears to be some kind of weird 'price compression' going on. Example, there are nice looking 13 plate cars for sale with circa 20k miles asking around £32k. Seems about right. But there are other, 61 and 12 plate cars with 50k miles asking £29k. Who in their right mind would lay out 29 large on a 4 year old 50k mile car when, for a extra £3k, they could buy a car a year younger with only just over a third of the miles ? The 12 plate car with 50k miles should be £10k cheaper surely ? £4k for being a year older and £2k for every extra 10k miles ?
2. Private sellers seem to think they can expect to get retail prices. So they ask the same a dealers. Or, in some cases, more. This isn't just C63's. You expect to pay maybe 20% more from a dealer don't you ? Or 20% less private ? Private sale carries risk. Who pays £30k to a stranger ? If I'm paying £30k either way I may as well use a (reputable) dealer. My car would retail at £11,000 so I'd be asking £9,000 and hope to get £8,500. Although will almost certainly p/x (something else you can't do if buying private!)
OC
1. There appears to be some kind of weird 'price compression' going on. Example, there are nice looking 13 plate cars for sale with circa 20k miles asking around £32k. Seems about right. But there are other, 61 and 12 plate cars with 50k miles asking £29k. Who in their right mind would lay out 29 large on a 4 year old 50k mile car when, for a extra £3k, they could buy a car a year younger with only just over a third of the miles ? The 12 plate car with 50k miles should be £10k cheaper surely ? £4k for being a year older and £2k for every extra 10k miles ?
2. Private sellers seem to think they can expect to get retail prices. So they ask the same a dealers. Or, in some cases, more. This isn't just C63's. You expect to pay maybe 20% more from a dealer don't you ? Or 20% less private ? Private sale carries risk. Who pays £30k to a stranger ? If I'm paying £30k either way I may as well use a (reputable) dealer. My car would retail at £11,000 so I'd be asking £9,000 and hope to get £8,500. Although will almost certainly p/x (something else you can't do if buying private!)
OC
Edited by OddCat on Monday 17th October 20:41
On the compression, what I am trying to say is that, condition being similar, there should be a much greater price differential between this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
And this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
I take the pont about dealers but GE fact remains that they have to make a profit or they go bust. So dealer prices should / will always be 20% higher than private sale.
Yes, I'm lookin to buy but not 'drip' at prices - just understand what is going on
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
And this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
I take the pont about dealers but GE fact remains that they have to make a profit or they go bust. So dealer prices should / will always be 20% higher than private sale.
Yes, I'm lookin to buy but not 'drip' at prices - just understand what is going on
ecain63 said:
Why are you so keen that dealers are supposed to be 20% higher than private?
Is that so you can haggle down to private prices and claim here you can get £6k off sticker price? Or to justify you wanting a cheap private purchase?
No intention of trying to haggle dealers down to private prices. Because I appreciate that there is up to a 20% difference between retail and private. The issue is private sellers thinking they can ask the same as retail sellers. Do WBAC offer the same money for cars as dealers are asking for similar cars on their forecourts. Of course they don't. They offer private car sale prices. Is that so you can haggle down to private prices and claim here you can get £6k off sticker price? Or to justify you wanting a cheap private purchase?
If it is as immaculate as the ad says, I'd happily pay £32k for the red one above. But I wouldn't pay £29k for the white one even if it, too, is immaculate. I reckon the differential between these two cars should be at least £8k and maybe £10k just based on age and mileage.
Perhaps I've confused the issue here by introducing two completely different issues in one thread ?
1. Price compression (like the red and white ones above) and
2. trade vs private price differentials
PS Edited to say, if I did buy the red one for £32k, if I then needed for some reason to sell it in 3 months time I'd expect only to be able to get £25k for it as a private sale (accepting that I paid a 20% premium for buying from a dealer which evaporates the moment I drive it away)
Edited by OddCat on Tuesday 18th October 11:59
mikearwas said:
25k for the red car as a private sale 3 months later?
Yes. Because the £32k I will have paid included the 20% dealer premium !mikearwas said:
How is the red example going to be worth less than a higher mileage pre-facelift car in 3 months time?
Eh ? It isn't. It will be worth less privately than a higher mileage older one at a dealer because (and only because) dealer price are 20% higher. Otherwise, privately, it WOULD be worth more that an older higher mileage car.And there wasn't a pre face life Coupe was there ?
PS the substance I'm on is realism with a side order if common sense !
ZX10R NIN said:
OP you're way off C63 prices are reflected by condition mileage spec & history that's it your theories are just that the market is set by what people want to pay.
If you want to buy off a dealer & are happy then no problem enjoy your car if a private seller puts his car up for what he sees as a fair price again that's his choice.
No they are not, otherwise their would be a greater price differential between the red one and the white one (above). Unless one is priced wrongly.If you want to buy off a dealer & are happy then no problem enjoy your car if a private seller puts his car up for what he sees as a fair price again that's his choice.
Clearly, I have his all wrong and know nothing ! Not quite in a position to buy yet. If I was I'd be buying the red one.....
Edited by OddCat on Tuesday 18th October 20:11
ecain63 said:
Ok, OP.
I bought an October 2010 C63 with PPP and all the options, with 10k in on the cock in January 2013. I paid £36k from an MB Dealer.
After 18 months and another 12k miles, how much was my car sold for privately, by your sense of realism and common sense?
My current October 2012 C63 saloon with PPP and all the trimmings has 32k on the clock. What is is worth using your logic?
I don't know what the C63 prices looked like in late 2014 - but working backwards from your purchase price, and bearing in mind you bought it from an MB dealer with the associated premium, I would imagine that, with at that point it getting on for nearly twice as old as when you bought it, and with it having more than twice as many miles, you sold it privately for around £26k. But I'm sure you are going to tell me you got £34,000 !I bought an October 2010 C63 with PPP and all the options, with 10k in on the cock in January 2013. I paid £36k from an MB Dealer.
After 18 months and another 12k miles, how much was my car sold for privately, by your sense of realism and common sense?
My current October 2012 C63 saloon with PPP and all the trimmings has 32k on the clock. What is is worth using your logic?
Re your current car at risk of causing offence (and I honestly don't want to do that)......I would say £29k retail / £25k private ?
I didn't realise that values were such a sensitive issue. People seem to take it personally. Maybe even I do up to a point.
Re the other entries "search is a b****h" I was just trying to get a feel for the market. No intentional contradiction. XKR was my original target (having had one) but RS5 appealed. Then I saw and heard a C63....
Maybe there is no science to this. Dealers and private sellers start off with asking prices that are optimistic (which is fair enough) and you never know what they finally achieved.
I'm a 50 year old bloke who has been a car nut since childhood and for whom, unfortunately, £30k is a massive stretch. So price is a serious consideration for me (although I do appreciate that others on here are wealthy and don't worry about such things).
Thanks to all for the responses.
PS Reading an August edition of Auto Express last night with a test between new C63s and M4. Reckoned new C63s would hold 45% of its new value after 3 years and 30,000 miles. So would go from £68k new to £31k (just to emphasise the point, they even then helpfully state that the loss is actually £37k). One of you chaps should have a word with them !
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercedes/c-class/9664...
(edited to add link)
Edited by OddCat on Wednesday 19th October 09:10
Okay. Fair enough. Hands up. I have this completely wrong.
With the exception of the Audi quattro I had in the late 90's (which I bought for £6k and sold for £7k two years later but now wish I'd kept) every car I've owned has pretty much halved in value (or worse) over 3 years. I'm not used to this "car defies depreciation gravity" thing. I've usually waited till cars have fallen to within my budget. Which is why I love it that people can buy these amazing cars new otherwise I'd never get to own one.
Point taken re last of the N/A V8's. I should know that - it's why I'd like one.
Sounds like I need to buy a C63 sooner rather than later then. Now, if I can just get someone to give me £12k for my car........
With the exception of the Audi quattro I had in the late 90's (which I bought for £6k and sold for £7k two years later but now wish I'd kept) every car I've owned has pretty much halved in value (or worse) over 3 years. I'm not used to this "car defies depreciation gravity" thing. I've usually waited till cars have fallen to within my budget. Which is why I love it that people can buy these amazing cars new otherwise I'd never get to own one.
Point taken re last of the N/A V8's. I should know that - it's why I'd like one.
Sounds like I need to buy a C63 sooner rather than later then. Now, if I can just get someone to give me £12k for my car........
ecain63 said:
What car is it?
Okay, here goes (you did ask).....It's 2010(59) BMW 330i SE Highline Coupe with paddle shift auto, elec roof, big sat nav (with hard drive music storage etc) adaptive lights, Dakota leather, nice (mint) upgrade 18" wheels, privacy glass, heated seats, elec mirrors etc. Running on Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres (not the awful run flats it came with which had a ride like sitting on a park bench). And it's Atlantis Blue which is the most amazing colour and has a bit of a cult following.
Was built as a showroom special by BMW - so the colour wasn't normally available (not even in the 'individual' colour range at the time) and so is rare. A bit marmite - but more likers than dis-likers. I often get people approaching me and asking me about it just because of the colour. It is absolutely stunning in the flesh. Has done 62k miles. Full history (BMW and last one at a reputable local German car specialist). Has the later LCI 270 bhp engine. And it is pampered !
With options would have been thick end of £40k list when new - although the guy I bought it off had a "deal" I think with the BMW dealer and probably got it for nearer £32k. I bought it privately (yes, honestly) two years ago so am the second owner. I am told that trade value is £8k. Car is six years old so, from a trade value point of view, has followed the "halve every six years" thing (£32k, £16k, £8k)
Downsides, is not an M Sport (everyone seems to want M Sport but I like the chrome window surrounds of the SE- probably an age thing – I remember when the posh models had the chrome and the cooking ones just had black window surround !) and has ordinary seats rather than sport ones and doesn’t have the 19” M Sport wheels.
Similar age 330i M Sports with similar mileage / spec (or not so good) are generally up for between £11k and £14k with dealers. SE spec 330i's are rare so never many for sale (if any). I've never seen one that I would swap mine for......
Edited by OddCat on Wednesday 19th October 14:37
Wow Ifran ! That is gorgeous !! I love the red interior too. Really special.
I think you are right. For every properly nice one there will be half a dozen tatty, knocked about or generally unloved ones. Yes, in most cases, seat bolsters and wheels alone are enough to be able to judge without going any further. I'm not surprised it took you 8 months to find a minter.
Am always suspicious of any ad that doesn't clearly show the drivers seat bolster. And especially those that show only the passenger side bolster !
I think you are right. For every properly nice one there will be half a dozen tatty, knocked about or generally unloved ones. Yes, in most cases, seat bolsters and wheels alone are enough to be able to judge without going any further. I'm not surprised it took you 8 months to find a minter.
Am always suspicious of any ad that doesn't clearly show the drivers seat bolster. And especially those that show only the passenger side bolster !
Edited by OddCat on Thursday 27th October 20:34
Gassing Station | Mercedes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff