Buying an Alfa 1600 GT Junior
Discussion
Hello,
Im in the market for a 105 1600 junior and was hoping to tap into the knowledge available on Pistonheads. Ive done a bit of research and it seems avoiding rusty examples should be my main focus. However after that im really unsure as to what i should be looking out for, listening out for pops and bangs in the carbs is apparently another tip to help avoid a badly built engine.
Im not very mechanically minded so any slightly dumbed down advice would be helpful, a sort of idiots guide to buying a classic Alfa would be appreciated.
Im going to have a look at a 1975 1600 gt juinor at the weekend. It has a 2ltr engine which the seller told me was what all Juniors were equipped with in the later years of production. It also has four headlamps like a GTV, however i though Juniors only had two?
Any help is very much appreciated,
Cheers
Jack.
Im in the market for a 105 1600 junior and was hoping to tap into the knowledge available on Pistonheads. Ive done a bit of research and it seems avoiding rusty examples should be my main focus. However after that im really unsure as to what i should be looking out for, listening out for pops and bangs in the carbs is apparently another tip to help avoid a badly built engine.
Im not very mechanically minded so any slightly dumbed down advice would be helpful, a sort of idiots guide to buying a classic Alfa would be appreciated.
Im going to have a look at a 1975 1600 gt juinor at the weekend. It has a 2ltr engine which the seller told me was what all Juniors were equipped with in the later years of production. It also has four headlamps like a GTV, however i though Juniors only had two?
Any help is very much appreciated,
Cheers
Jack.
Cheers for the link Fantuzzi, i hadn't seen some of those.
My uppermost budget would be 15k (pounds), any more than that and i'd be living off baked beans on toast for the next few years. Im planning on just using the car for weekend fun in good weather, no plans for classic car rally/roadtrips (not yet anyway).
The car is a 1975 gt 1600 Bertone. So from what i understand it should have a similar spec level to the 1750 and 2000 Bertone in terms of appearance such as the grill and headlights.
The car im going to look at has just been fully restored so the bodywork should be in very good condition and had a mechanical overhaul too.
I paid a visit to Solo Italia, a Italian car garage who look after the Abarth and like Jamie said they advised me that the engines are pretty straight forward to look after. Its the body rust thats the main problem.
Nice car Sunbeam, like the man in those pictures i have some red trousers to match the paintwork
My uppermost budget would be 15k (pounds), any more than that and i'd be living off baked beans on toast for the next few years. Im planning on just using the car for weekend fun in good weather, no plans for classic car rally/roadtrips (not yet anyway).
The car is a 1975 gt 1600 Bertone. So from what i understand it should have a similar spec level to the 1750 and 2000 Bertone in terms of appearance such as the grill and headlights.
The car im going to look at has just been fully restored so the bodywork should be in very good condition and had a mechanical overhaul too.
I paid a visit to Solo Italia, a Italian car garage who look after the Abarth and like Jamie said they advised me that the engines are pretty straight forward to look after. Its the body rust thats the main problem.
Nice car Sunbeam, like the man in those pictures i have some red trousers to match the paintwork
Im in Oxfordshire, so Halifax is a bit of a trek but thankyou for the offer. Dare i ask why its on axle stands?
as for the links, the first one is very similar to the car im visiting. Im rather keen on buying one thats just had all the bodywork done, so as to avoid rust. Although the one you showed does look a corker.
The second one looks like fun! Im not so sure about insuring a car like that though as it would be classed as modified which when your 22 is a bit of a killer
It appears to be wearing your favourite semi semi slicks Fantuzzi
Cheers for all this help!
as for the links, the first one is very similar to the car im visiting. Im rather keen on buying one thats just had all the bodywork done, so as to avoid rust. Although the one you showed does look a corker.
The second one looks like fun! Im not so sure about insuring a car like that though as it would be classed as modified which when your 22 is a bit of a killer
It appears to be wearing your favourite semi semi slicks Fantuzzi Cheers for all this help!
Well it certainly looked pretty. I looked for rust but was unable to find any, the underside of the car had been sealed with a sort of Bitumen under seal. The bodywork was in very good condition, no signs of rust and it had been painted very recently. The wheels had also had a refurbishment. The interior was in good condition. Not excellent, just good. The dash was free of cracks, in fact the only thing that really needs fixing in there is the passenger seat belt which wont tighten. Its been re carpeted inside which looks ok but not amazing.
So we went for a test drive for just over an hour of which i drove half of it. The gear change is smooth, the clutch heavy. The brakes were fairly strong, but its difficult for me to judge how strong brakes on a 40 year old car should be. The pads are new at least. Their was some popping from the exhaust on the over run, but the carbs were balanced and the car tuned only about a month ago. So i assume that is nothing to worry about? My Abarth pops on the over run so it would seem only right that a 40 year old car would do the same.
One thing that surprised me was how fast it was. It really isn't slow, the torque was very impressive. The test drive took us up steep hills and back down again, through a twisty forest and then some town driving with traffic. So offered lots of different variations of road/traffic giving me a good feel for the car. The temperatures stayed neutral in that time, the Kenlow fan seemed to do its job.
The car wasn't a minter, but it wasn't shabby either and looked beautiful.
Ive got untill Wednesday to make my mind up.
So we went for a test drive for just over an hour of which i drove half of it. The gear change is smooth, the clutch heavy. The brakes were fairly strong, but its difficult for me to judge how strong brakes on a 40 year old car should be. The pads are new at least. Their was some popping from the exhaust on the over run, but the carbs were balanced and the car tuned only about a month ago. So i assume that is nothing to worry about? My Abarth pops on the over run so it would seem only right that a 40 year old car would do the same.
One thing that surprised me was how fast it was. It really isn't slow, the torque was very impressive. The test drive took us up steep hills and back down again, through a twisty forest and then some town driving with traffic. So offered lots of different variations of road/traffic giving me a good feel for the car. The temperatures stayed neutral in that time, the Kenlow fan seemed to do its job.
The car wasn't a minter, but it wasn't shabby either and looked beautiful.
Ive got untill Wednesday to make my mind up.
Fantuzzi said:
How did it fair in the twisty stuff, did the 105 series live up to its reputation?
Given its a big purchase, I wouldn't worry about waiting for the right one, or even waiting to drive another before deciding.
Why is Wednesday the cut off?
I drove it in the twisty stuff at the start of my drive, so i didn't push it too hard. That said the car did seem to have good turn in, certainly no hint of under steer. The suspension was firmish but not uncomfortable. I could hear the spare wheel bouncing in the boot over the bigger bumps and potholes. Given its a big purchase, I wouldn't worry about waiting for the right one, or even waiting to drive another before deciding.
Why is Wednesday the cut off?
Wednesday is the cut off because ive made the seller an offer which he has accepted. We've agreed to a provisional sale, by which i mean i have until Wednesday to confirm that i definitely want to buy it or not. Ive essentially got until then to think things over or try other cars. However so far the other car i wanted to see (the first link you posted) has since been sold.
Their really doesn't seem to be much to improve. The air vent on the drivers side made a scrapey sort of sound temporarily when air was being blown through it and the passenger seat belt needs fixing but other than that it looks good.
Given that all the other examples are either more expensive for a similar condition or not restored and the fact that he's knocked the price down a bit i feel inclined to go for it!
Ok so, i went to my parents house to discuss the garage arrangements. My dad says he needs the garage for a few more months in order to do some woodwork. He's not very well so doesn't have much energy which means i cant rush him. The other garage i was going to use now has a Golf GTI in it for restoration, so thats not available either. Ive decided to retract the offer until i have a garage to store it in, i dont want to buy an Alfa in good nick and then just let it rot outside for several months.
As for the car itself cheers for the info on the fuel cap and rear of the car. I didn't know about the fuel tank and was unsure as to which rear the car should have. Originality for me isn't a big deal, like Rick said it looks better that way. I think once you add those changes to the non original paint colour and the engine it could make it harder to sell on. Which eventually i would have to do. The original grille came with the car along with the bumpers by the way.
So for now its all on hold, i think if the garage had been available i would have used the info given to barter him down further.
P.S the wings were metal and no their were no photo's of the restoration, which worried me at the time but i think i overlooked it because i was so excited about driving it.
As for the car itself cheers for the info on the fuel cap and rear of the car. I didn't know about the fuel tank and was unsure as to which rear the car should have. Originality for me isn't a big deal, like Rick said it looks better that way. I think once you add those changes to the non original paint colour and the engine it could make it harder to sell on. Which eventually i would have to do. The original grille came with the car along with the bumpers by the way.
So for now its all on hold, i think if the garage had been available i would have used the info given to barter him down further.
P.S the wings were metal and no their were no photo's of the restoration, which worried me at the time but i think i overlooked it because i was so excited about driving it.
Well thank you for all the advice, the council garage option sounds good. Im not sure if its available where i live so i will do some research.
Another issue with the car is that it has a 2 ltr unit. This means it has to be insured as being modified. Elephant insurance do not insure cars with non standard engines which means that i would loose the multi-car discount. Using a different insurer makes it a bit more expensive, more than i would like to pay if i know i could get it cheaper with a standard engine.
The seller claimed that because it was a end of production car it was fitted from the factory with a 2ltr engine. He says Alfa Romeo have confirmed this with him. But as far as the insurer's are concerned its non standard.
This would also make the Alfaholic's car in the link above more pricey to insure. So ill probably stick with one as close as possible to the original.
Maybe something like this.. http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/car-advert/alf...
Another issue with the car is that it has a 2 ltr unit. This means it has to be insured as being modified. Elephant insurance do not insure cars with non standard engines which means that i would loose the multi-car discount. Using a different insurer makes it a bit more expensive, more than i would like to pay if i know i could get it cheaper with a standard engine.
The seller claimed that because it was a end of production car it was fitted from the factory with a 2ltr engine. He says Alfa Romeo have confirmed this with him. But as far as the insurer's are concerned its non standard.
This would also make the Alfaholic's car in the link above more pricey to insure. So ill probably stick with one as close as possible to the original.
Maybe something like this.. http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/car-advert/alf...
Im going to some tinkering around with the insurance to try and come up with the best deal i can. Cheers for the tip on the Chris Knott thing. I could see my age being a problem as most classic car drivers are older and wiser than myself. Elephant actually told me to try Adrian Flux!
Ive ordered the Buying guide, much study is needed.
Ive ordered the Buying guide, much study is needed.
Fantuzzi said:
Are you dead set on the 105 idea Jack?
15k is a big sum! I know you were thinking about an S2 elise a while ago which would be in budget, I know the s1 insurance isn't too mental for us young people, so I doubt the s2 is that much more (although with insurance you never know!).
There were a lot of really tidy (looking!) S1 spiders in budget as well, I thought they fetched more than 15kish.
Or sell the Abarth and get an SZ...
EDIT - you might need 5k more for an SZ
It doesn't have to be a 105, i was looking at Datsun 240z's last night. Lotus Elans are prettys things as well and can be had for similar money. Ive considered S1 spiders too as they are beautiful things as well. 15k is a big sum! I know you were thinking about an S2 elise a while ago which would be in budget, I know the s1 insurance isn't too mental for us young people, so I doubt the s2 is that much more (although with insurance you never know!).
There were a lot of really tidy (looking!) S1 spiders in budget as well, I thought they fetched more than 15kish.
Or sell the Abarth and get an SZ...
EDIT - you might need 5k more for an SZ
Another option is a classic 500, it would be cheap to buy (ish), cheap to run and simple to fix. So it could be a good first classic car. Heres one i like the look of http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C507466. I know its a replica which isn't ideal but it looks like fun and would probably have similar performance to a real one.
Hmm Lotus Elise s1, thats tempting too.
It is a lot of money like you say, the idea is to have something to enjoy that will gain value. Rather than letting the money just sit in the bank and depreciate.
EDIT - Sell the Abarth!! Never!
Hmm the 500 is on the website but the link doesn't work. If you want to see it search for 500's, its on page 4. Fiat 500 R LHD 1974 is the title. Converting one to an Abarth would be fun
I guess the S1 would be the most practical in terms of reliability and rust problems. Ill need to do some insurance checks first though.
If i did go for the S1 option before you got yours i'd be happy to bring it down to Devon(?) and let you have a look around/drive.
I guess the S1 would be the most practical in terms of reliability and rust problems. Ill need to do some insurance checks first though.
If i did go for the S1 option before you got yours i'd be happy to bring it down to Devon(?) and let you have a look around/drive.
It seems insuring 500's inst as easy i hoped it would be. Quoted £1100 one by Adrian Flux this morning!!!!!!!!!!!! Gobsmacked, Thats double what i pay for my Abarth. The Lotus would be cheaper to insure.
It seems standard cars are the way to go.
Ive noticed the Alfa i viewed is now at a reduced price of £13850.
Get the s1 Fantuzzi, do it.
It seems standard cars are the way to go.
Ive noticed the Alfa i viewed is now at a reduced price of £13850.
Get the s1 Fantuzzi, do it.
Which insurance company do you use? And if you dont mind how old are you? Im finding it hard to get insurance for modified classics. Which is strange as my Abarth is modded and it only adds about £30 to the policy.
Yes the Fulvia looks more sporty compared to the junior, perhaps something to try out.
Yes the Fulvia looks more sporty compared to the junior, perhaps something to try out.
Ill make some inquiries about insurance tomorrow. Today i was supposed to be going to look at a classic 500 restored in the style of an Abarth, looked like a good deal. However after driving 2 hours to to go see it, just before i arrived they rang me up to tell me they had sold it! A 4 hour round trip for no reason at all, fuming isn't the word!
The stupid thing is i was prepared to pay over the asking price too, i didn't even have chance to make an offer.
The stupid thing is i was prepared to pay over the asking price too, i didn't even have chance to make an offer.
arguti said:
jacklewisno1 said:
Ill make some inquiries about insurance tomorrow. Today i was supposed to be going to look at a classic 500 restored in the style of an Abarth, looked like a good deal. However after driving 2 hours to to go see it, just before i arrived they rang me up to tell me they had sold it! A 4 hour round trip for no reason at all, fuming isn't the word!
The stupid thing is i was prepared to pay over the asking price too, i didn't even have chance to make an offer.
Not sure if you had a lucky escape there! Seriously, 105 coupe is as far removed from Fulvia from a 500 - jokes aside, if you are going to drive one of these things and spend lots of money on them then better one that you really love- I say that because these cars are all different : not knocking the 500 but could never see myself driving or owning one !The stupid thing is i was prepared to pay over the asking price too, i didn't even have chance to make an offer.
I guess the Fulvia sits in the middle, in that its not as pretty as the Alfa or as characterful as the 500.
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