159 TI - Which engine to go for?
Discussion
Hi all,
I've been wanting to change my current car (R53 Mini Cooper S) for something more mature (The mini is lowered, loud and quite quick!) and something bigger for ages but I've not gone for anything yet.
I've scratched my head over E90 and E60 BMW's, petrol / oil burners but I'm feeling a bit "meh" about them.
I've always loved the 159 especially in TI form. I'm leaning towards a diesel now so which is the engine to get? 2.4 or 1.9? Big difference in performance?
I'd like to get a car and not fiddle with it (no remaps, coilovers, wheels, brakes etc etc) which is why I've gone off the idea of the BMW as I'd always be wanting to change bits so it's more unique, where as the 159 is stunning to start with and very rare in comparison.
Any advice?
I've been wanting to change my current car (R53 Mini Cooper S) for something more mature (The mini is lowered, loud and quite quick!) and something bigger for ages but I've not gone for anything yet.
I've scratched my head over E90 and E60 BMW's, petrol / oil burners but I'm feeling a bit "meh" about them.
I've always loved the 159 especially in TI form. I'm leaning towards a diesel now so which is the engine to get? 2.4 or 1.9? Big difference in performance?
I'd like to get a car and not fiddle with it (no remaps, coilovers, wheels, brakes etc etc) which is why I've gone off the idea of the BMW as I'd always be wanting to change bits so it's more unique, where as the 159 is stunning to start with and very rare in comparison.
Any advice?
Plenty of info over on alfaowner.com
I work part-time for an Italian car specialist and we have a contract to do all the servicing for a local Alfa Indy retailer, so we get to see lots of 2 - 10 year old Alfas
The 159 is a lovely, but flawed car (aren't most Alfas?) - I understand it was originally intended to be a 5-series competitor, but was then downgraded to take on the 3-series. As a result, it was over-engineered and has tuned out to be a bit heavy.
I have an Alfa GT 1.9 diesel and my son has the identical engine in a 159 Sportwagon. Both of us are remapped for economy and both have been Terracleaned (which makes a lot of difference). Both are running replacement turbos and both have the EGR blanked. I habitually get 5 - 10mpg more than he does, and his commute is outside of the rush-hour (mine is M42 at rush hour, twice a day - often stationary)
The 1.9 four-pot is a bit agricultural, especially from outside. The 2.0 is quieter and smoother and about 20bhp up as standard.
With the diesels, the characterful five-pot is the one to go for, as long as you're not too precious about mpg. Its a wonderful engine, with a good sound (if a diesel can ever sound decent). However, its not the most efficient lump around, with many owners reporting low 40s and even mid 30s - check out fuelly.com
As with lots of Alfas, they can suffer from tyre wear, due to wishbone bushes going soft, but its an easy replacement and will transform how the car drives.
Electrical problems still rear their head occasionally, but nowhere near as bad as legend suggests
However, all of its foibles just evaporate when you look at it - surely one of the best designs for a mid-price saloon in the last twenty years? IMHO the Sportwagon looks even better. In TI trim, its just gorgeous.
My son has the occasional whinge when something needs replacing or looking at, but then he thinks about what else he could have bought for the money. 10 year old 3-series, A4, Mondeo TDCi, Insignia - his favourite trick is to imagine one of his work colleagues saying "what are you driving nowadays?" - he doesn't have to suffer the bland looks he'd get with one of the aforementioned cars - instead, he gets to say "an Alfa Romeo - what are you in?"
I work part-time for an Italian car specialist and we have a contract to do all the servicing for a local Alfa Indy retailer, so we get to see lots of 2 - 10 year old Alfas
The 159 is a lovely, but flawed car (aren't most Alfas?) - I understand it was originally intended to be a 5-series competitor, but was then downgraded to take on the 3-series. As a result, it was over-engineered and has tuned out to be a bit heavy.
I have an Alfa GT 1.9 diesel and my son has the identical engine in a 159 Sportwagon. Both of us are remapped for economy and both have been Terracleaned (which makes a lot of difference). Both are running replacement turbos and both have the EGR blanked. I habitually get 5 - 10mpg more than he does, and his commute is outside of the rush-hour (mine is M42 at rush hour, twice a day - often stationary)
The 1.9 four-pot is a bit agricultural, especially from outside. The 2.0 is quieter and smoother and about 20bhp up as standard.
With the diesels, the characterful five-pot is the one to go for, as long as you're not too precious about mpg. Its a wonderful engine, with a good sound (if a diesel can ever sound decent). However, its not the most efficient lump around, with many owners reporting low 40s and even mid 30s - check out fuelly.com
As with lots of Alfas, they can suffer from tyre wear, due to wishbone bushes going soft, but its an easy replacement and will transform how the car drives.
Electrical problems still rear their head occasionally, but nowhere near as bad as legend suggests
However, all of its foibles just evaporate when you look at it - surely one of the best designs for a mid-price saloon in the last twenty years? IMHO the Sportwagon looks even better. In TI trim, its just gorgeous.
My son has the occasional whinge when something needs replacing or looking at, but then he thinks about what else he could have bought for the money. 10 year old 3-series, A4, Mondeo TDCi, Insignia - his favourite trick is to imagine one of his work colleagues saying "what are you driving nowadays?" - he doesn't have to suffer the bland looks he'd get with one of the aforementioned cars - instead, he gets to say "an Alfa Romeo - what are you in?"
Is the 2.4 a 5 pot with 200bhp / 290lb/ft!?
I'm not fussed by mpg, I was looking at 530i's. But I like the idea of getting a diesel for better economy. 35 mpg + would be incredible. My mini sees around 22mpg at the moment (it's around 230bhp from a 1.6).
My gf hates alfa's due to an old colleague of hers with a GTV and having nothing but trouble.
I sat in the Brera when it first came out and couldn't believe the difference / improvement from the 156/147's.
I really like the GT but want a 4 door saloon.
I'm not fussed by mpg, I was looking at 530i's. But I like the idea of getting a diesel for better economy. 35 mpg + would be incredible. My mini sees around 22mpg at the moment (it's around 230bhp from a 1.6).
My gf hates alfa's due to an old colleague of hers with a GTV and having nothing but trouble.
I sat in the Brera when it first came out and couldn't believe the difference / improvement from the 156/147's.
I really like the GT but want a 4 door saloon.
Chimune said:
Nigel-O... good post ..... questions:
why the replacement turbos ? upgrades or problems ?
whats terraclean ?
what mpg do YOU get ?
ta
Thanks - comes from many years of working around Fiat Coupes, and more lately, Alfas of most typeswhy the replacement turbos ? upgrades or problems ?
whats terraclean ?
what mpg do YOU get ?
ta
Replacement turbos on mine and my son's cars were simply due to wear & tear. His lasted nearly 100,000 miles (we think it had been driven hard) - mine lasted 170,000. Both were replaced because they were whistling under boost - might have lasted another 20,000 miles, but replaced as part of a policy of preventative maintenance - always a good idea on an Alfa
Terraclean is a carbon cleaning system (launched in the UK by Edd China of Wheeler Dealers fame). The car is run for around half an hour on Terraclean's own fuel supply, with a "soak" part-way through - it cleans carbon deposits from anywhere that the fuel/air mixture or exhaust gasses have contact. If the EGR is still connected, this means the inlet side too. It sounds a lot like snake-oil, but my car made a 3-5mpg jump immediately following the treatment AND it was much smoother and quieter to drive.
When I got my GT, it was doing 44-46mpg average across a tank. I'm now getting 48-50 on my horrible daily commute (lots of stop-start traffic and motorway queues). On a gentle motorway cruise, it will do over 60mpg with easy, and if I hang out with the trucks, it'll do 70+. My best was an indicated 72mpg from M42 J4 to M42 J10 - about 20 miles - cruising at 55-60 with the trucks (which was about as fast as the rest of the traffic was going anyway...) Its dropped by a couple of mpg right now, as I have the winter tyres fitted
The best engine is the 1750 tbi, or if your insisting getting a diesel, get the 2.0 but make sure its not the 136hp version (check the sticker on the door pillar). The 2.4 sounds good for a diesel and pulls like a locomotive, but is very thirsty, the 2.2 does suffer cam chain stretch issues. The 1.9 has a weak box and clutch so check if its already been replaced.
Dont rule out the Lusso spec in the right colour and wheels for a lot less money than the TI. Alfa 159s on the whole are reliable, they just need a little fettling to get perfect. When you get it, spend a weekend fitting powerflex bushes to the wishbones, get the wheels aligned, blank the egr (if its a 1.9 or 2.4) and ahem..stick some waxoil on the front subframe..job done and happy motoring.
Dont rule out the Lusso spec in the right colour and wheels for a lot less money than the TI. Alfa 159s on the whole are reliable, they just need a little fettling to get perfect. When you get it, spend a weekend fitting powerflex bushes to the wishbones, get the wheels aligned, blank the egr (if its a 1.9 or 2.4) and ahem..stick some waxoil on the front subframe..job done and happy motoring.
Edited by davebem on Thursday 22 January 19:01
SteveS Cup said:
Hi all,
I've been wanting to change my current car (R53 Mini Cooper S) for something more mature (The mini is lowered, loud and quite quick!) and something bigger for ages but I've not gone for anything yet.
I've scratched my head over E90 and E60 BMW's, petrol / oil burners but I'm feeling a bit "meh" about them.
I've always loved the 159 especially in TI form. I'm leaning towards a diesel now so which is the engine to get? 2.4 or 1.9? Big difference in performance?
I'd like to get a car and not fiddle with it (no remaps, coilovers, wheels, brakes etc etc) which is why I've gone off the idea of the BMW as I'd always be wanting to change bits so it's more unique, where as the 159 is stunning to start with and very rare in comparison.
Any advice?
Bought my wife one last year, its the 159 Lusso 2.4 Auto and I am getting on the local stuff about 30-32 mpg on a run getting 38-40mpg, my wife does the school run etc and works locally so it has an effect on the mpg.I've been wanting to change my current car (R53 Mini Cooper S) for something more mature (The mini is lowered, loud and quite quick!) and something bigger for ages but I've not gone for anything yet.
I've scratched my head over E90 and E60 BMW's, petrol / oil burners but I'm feeling a bit "meh" about them.
I've always loved the 159 especially in TI form. I'm leaning towards a diesel now so which is the engine to get? 2.4 or 1.9? Big difference in performance?
I'd like to get a car and not fiddle with it (no remaps, coilovers, wheels, brakes etc etc) which is why I've gone off the idea of the BMW as I'd always be wanting to change bits so it's more unique, where as the 159 is stunning to start with and very rare in comparison.
Any advice?
Had it mapped and the oil changed in the box just to be sure when I bought it, just had it MOT'd and had to do the top wishbones to get it through the MOT.
Completely different car once its mapped and the people who have been out with me in it have said it drives like a BMW (insert VW Golf joke) Even after 12 months of ownership I still look at it and it's still a great looking car.
But alas my wife and I have had our head turned by a reasonably cheap Business lease deal on a BMW M135i, so I will be putting it up for sale soon if your interested.
Go for a 1750 TBi if you can find one and are happy with low 30's MPG even on a motorway run. The Ti is a great spec although you have to be fairly svelte for the seats and tyres can be pretty pricey as unusual size and load rating.
I've got an SW Ti and am very glad I held out for a 1750, have a look on Alfa Owner as the 159 section is very informative and will have all the info you'll ever need.
I've got an SW Ti and am very glad I held out for a 1750, have a look on Alfa Owner as the 159 section is very informative and will have all the info you'll ever need.
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