New Fiat 500 1.2 - Slow to pick up and difficult to move off
Discussion
Hi all,
We picked up a new (delivery miles, pre-reg) Fiat 500 for Mrs9 with the 1.2 engine, a week or so ago.
The car is a lovely little thing, really, and we got a great deal.
However, there is just one problem - It's really hard pulling away smoothly and seems to bog down off the line.
It can make it a bit hairy at roundabouts and things where you're worried it'll stall and cars catch you up rapidly as you wait for the engine to pick up.
It almost feels like you need to rev to like 5k and dump the clutch every time you pull off!
Does anyone else have this 'problem'? Is it a case of 'they all do that sir'?
I know the NA 1.2 engine is never going to light the world on fire (and our other cars are all torquey) but it is 'hard work' from a standstill when warm and cold. It doesn't feel like anything mechanical is wrong, more like an engine mapping issue (if anything).
Of course, could be nothing and we just need to 'get used to it' but I've never been in any car that is as slow off the line or difficult to get away smoothly.
Thoughts?
We picked up a new (delivery miles, pre-reg) Fiat 500 for Mrs9 with the 1.2 engine, a week or so ago.
The car is a lovely little thing, really, and we got a great deal.
However, there is just one problem - It's really hard pulling away smoothly and seems to bog down off the line.
It can make it a bit hairy at roundabouts and things where you're worried it'll stall and cars catch you up rapidly as you wait for the engine to pick up.
It almost feels like you need to rev to like 5k and dump the clutch every time you pull off!
Does anyone else have this 'problem'? Is it a case of 'they all do that sir'?
I know the NA 1.2 engine is never going to light the world on fire (and our other cars are all torquey) but it is 'hard work' from a standstill when warm and cold. It doesn't feel like anything mechanical is wrong, more like an engine mapping issue (if anything).
Of course, could be nothing and we just need to 'get used to it' but I've never been in any car that is as slow off the line or difficult to get away smoothly.
Thoughts?
Edited by dom9 on Sunday 21st June 09:51
I had 'heard' of this but I thought it was a different engine for some reason!
What on Earth have they changed that makes it do this?
It really is frustrating and makes the car very 'difficult'!
If it is 'emissions related' as the article suggests, perhaps it could be a mapping issue?
Not sure what to do if there is no 'fix', really.
bearman68 said:
In which case I wonder if you can remap it? I know this is not normally done on a NA petrol, but it might provide the required Omph.
Another alternative is an ECU from a previous gen engine - this will come with the old map, and could be cloned to the car.
Just a thought, but a bit radical for a new car.
That's what I was thinking... If it was as simple as a remap though, you'd hope Fiat would do a recall or it would be readily available on the market. I can't think what they could change, mechanically, to create this behaviour.Another alternative is an ECU from a previous gen engine - this will come with the old map, and could be cloned to the car.
Just a thought, but a bit radical for a new car.
Mrs9 has just watched the Watchdog piece... I suggested (it's only a week old) she commits this to the dealer in writing, in case it becomes really unbearable. She does a lot of stop-start driving (hence the small-engine city car) so the difficulty pulling away does get tiresome.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Check if the dealer has an exchange policy would be my suggestion as my understanding is it's a "feature" not a fault.
That seemed to be Fiat's response to the Watchdog piece but it's a big cop out. It's definitely a 'negative' and not something that appears easily driven around. Can't see the clutch lasting long being dumped every time you need to nip over a roundabout.It sounds like some dealers have exchanged cars but this is the spec and colour we wanted (lets face it, there will be loads of them available though)... I'll have a long chat with her about it, I think. Last thing I want or need is her getting T-boned on a roundabout.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Of course it's a cop out, but respectfully it's something that I'd have thought a test drive would have uncovered so I'd expect the dealers take on it to simply be it's "as designed" and it just happens it's a poor design.
I'd take it back under whatever exchange policy they have - can't see there is a "fix".
Have you driven one extensively? To be fair, my missus isn't the most experienced in a multitude of cars and did the test drive herself. It's not something you 'realise' is a feature until you have driven it a fair bit (it has done 100 miles or so now) and realize that no matter how you adapt your driving style, it doesn't go away. I'd take it back under whatever exchange policy they have - can't see there is a "fix".
On a short test drive, you would probably just think you did a poor launch and could do better next time. It's only once you've pulled away at a roundabout a couple of dozen times you realize that it ain't going away.
Ok, well, thanks for the heads-up that it is a well known and much complained about 'problem' that has been confirmed by the 'professionals'. It gives us something to chew over.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: No I haven't driven one...
Sorry mate - That may have sounded like I was doing the usual PH thing of calling someone out for not driving a car. That wasn't my intention. I just wanted to know if anyone really noticed on a test drive (instead of thinking it was their fault, needing to get used to the car) or it's something you really notice over time, once you've tried every adjustment to your driving style.With them selling so many, I guess it is something you 'realise' after a while. I just had a little run out in it and it seemed 'ok' if you're quite aggressive with it on the flat but hills are definitely difficult. Might 'note' it with the dealer and maybe that gets added to the pile of complaints with Fiat, which may mean they offer a reflash or something at some point.
Cheers all - appreciated.
FiF said:
Pure speculation but if this is due to retuning in order to achieve Euro-6 compliance then Fiat are going to do diddly squat to prejudice that.
Once out of warranty this will be prime target for after market chipping and remapping is my first guess.
To be quite honest it's a bit of a poor show all round. Fiat for putting out a vehicle like this, and the politicians for more or less forcing things this way.
I was wondering whether they might wait until the model is replaced and then offer an 'upgrade' or recall, so as not to prejudice the car's official stats while it is on sale. They also don't want to be seen to 'give in' and admit there is a problem now, as well, I am sure.Once out of warranty this will be prime target for after market chipping and remapping is my first guess.
To be quite honest it's a bit of a poor show all round. Fiat for putting out a vehicle like this, and the politicians for more or less forcing things this way.
Emissions and 'flat spot' scream 'mapping' to me, so hopefully it is a fairly cheap/ easy 'fix', if/ when it happens. Would be interested to know if any other PHers have one and what their thoughts are!?
Yadizzle1 said:
I have the same EURO 6 engine in a Panda and it's the exact same up a hill, I'm sure it's just down to the car not being massively powerful. A downshift + full throttle is the way to get up hills.
Yeah, we accept we have to change down going up hills but the issue is how close you get to stalling on hill starts in 1st gear. Thankfully Lucy has a fairly flat run up and down the A3 every day so she is 'ok' with it. I told her a supercharger would solve all these problems 
BristolRich said:
FIAT have issued an ECU update and an ESC update is apparently due very soon in an attempt to address the issue.
From my experience as an Abarth owner, you need to tell the dealers what to do. I have yet to experience an unprompted pro active aproach from either a FIAT or ABARTH dealer. This is not through any fault of their own, its a result of the cluster that is FIAT UK information management, configuration control and distribution of instruction, guidance or direction to the dealers.
Do you have a source to quote or bulletin to quote to the dealer for this?From my experience as an Abarth owner, you need to tell the dealers what to do. I have yet to experience an unprompted pro active aproach from either a FIAT or ABARTH dealer. This is not through any fault of their own, its a result of the cluster that is FIAT UK information management, configuration control and distribution of instruction, guidance or direction to the dealers.
Edited by BristolRich on Friday 26th June 11:44
RichW said:
Have you got any further with the 500 and its low down rpm issues?
The wife bought one last month, and it is exactly the same. She hates it!
The car is very "flat" when setting off. If you set off slowly your fine, if you want to slip the clutch and tear away its not so bad either, but if you want to set off at what i can only describe as normal its a nightmare. I have to turn the stereo off so i can hear exactly what the engines doing so i can match the clutch and throttle exactly. And even then you either over rev it or it dies on you. I kid you not, my banger 1999 1.2 Clio is 500 times better on the throttle.
The car also feels to hesitate whilst driving along at 30mph.
Seems to need a remap to get rid of the silly euro6 engine mapping, but i cannot find anyone who has written about having it done and dont fancy being the guinea pig
Hi Rich,The wife bought one last month, and it is exactly the same. She hates it!
The car is very "flat" when setting off. If you set off slowly your fine, if you want to slip the clutch and tear away its not so bad either, but if you want to set off at what i can only describe as normal its a nightmare. I have to turn the stereo off so i can hear exactly what the engines doing so i can match the clutch and throttle exactly. And even then you either over rev it or it dies on you. I kid you not, my banger 1999 1.2 Clio is 500 times better on the throttle.
The car also feels to hesitate whilst driving along at 30mph.
Seems to need a remap to get rid of the silly euro6 engine mapping, but i cannot find anyone who has written about having it done and dont fancy being the guinea pig
We've been moving house and Mrs9 was in Costa Rica for a bit as well, so we haven't done much, car-wise.
She is still happy with it and I found using it hilarious while she was away and I used it for work. 90% of her drive is up the A3 at 60mph though.
However, those problems are still there and there is a junction at the top of a hill where we moved to and that is a nightmare - have to slip the clutch and use some revs! Can see Fiat doing a good trade in clutches after a couple of years.
Really need to get a letter written and see what they say!
RichW said:
Cheers 
I've got an appointment with the dealer on Thursday, a technician is going to take a look and drive it, but the lass on reception who booked it in said the tech. thinks it'll simply be because its a euro6 car and they are all like that. I'll update you after that, but i think i know now what i'll be typing already.
Look forward to your update!I've got an appointment with the dealer on Thursday, a technician is going to take a look and drive it, but the lass on reception who booked it in said the tech. thinks it'll simply be because its a euro6 car and they are all like that. I'll update you after that, but i think i know now what i'll be typing already.
Top lurking, by the way!
teabelly said:
Has anyone tried Vpower or BP Ultimate in these to see whether they are less awful on higher octane fuel?
No but I wouldn't expect it to make a dramatic difference.Actually, scratch that - I did fill up with V-Power while she was away (for the extra Airmiles).
It made no difference at all that I could tell but maybe would need longer.
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