Month to madness
Discussion
So I recently sold my Punto GT, bought a Punto TD, tarted it up with spare GT parts and sold that. I took this 899cc Cinquecento as a part exchange.
Yes it's on the bump stops, yes it was fun for the first mile and yes it's bloody dangerous.
Anyway driving on the bump stops reminded me of my old Mini and got me thinking. There isn't a Mini any more.
BL Mini's are too expensive. BMW ones are either crap or overpriced crap.
Where are all the cheerful little cars that are cheap and easy to get hold of, easy to modify or upgrade from the parts bin and still utilitarian?
The Cinquecento is probably one of the best of the bunch. 899cc so cheap to insure, Sporting parts bin upgrades and more from the family tree. Can be picked up from £50 to £300 on the road and tunable. There are a couple of t-jet Cinquecento and Seicento projects terrorising exotica. Obviously there are more options like the VW Lupo but you have VAG insurance and the pretentious Dub Scene to deal with. Suzuki Alto are a pain to find parts, Ignis is too new, Swift too big. Citroën C 1,2,3 are all terrible compared to the old Saxo but good luck finding a decent base model one of those and the pandemic of VTR/VTS/V6 powered Saxo's that are "Still 1.1 on da log book innit bruv" should all come with a free barge pole. 107's are coffins, CityRover's can't handle the power they have let alone tuning or transplants. That's just about it.
Don't get me wrong for a rushed job the BMW MINI isn't all that bad. It weighed more than the Neon 1.6 engine could handle, as big as an Astra outside but smaller than a Corsa inside, poorly engineered but a good marketing exercise. Apart from that it was a welcome alternative to hum drum euroboxes of the period and gave the "it" crowd something that wasn't French to break down in.
Now you can get a BMW MINI for a lot less than a real Mini it almost makes sense but any bargain BMW is potentially a bottomless pit and the MINI is no exception to that rule.
So if this Cinquecento is going to a homage to what the Mini used to be it will have to stay 899cc for now.
You can almost feel the Pooooooowwwwwweeeeerrrr!
...wer
...wer
...wer
Okay the boot isn't that big.
These...
...will have to go for a start.
So what's the plan?
Two of my nephews are seventeen next year so I'm going to get them involved and show them a few tricks I've learned over the years.
There are a few repairs one would expect from a twenty two year old Fiat, sort the suspension, buckets, harnesses and cage.
All in time for a charity track day November 18th (if I can get the time off work) and auctioned of for the same charity just in time for Christmas.
I'm keeping the 899cc engine standard as just like a Mini you do all the other upgrades first and then make it go quicker.
If the car doesn't sell I have a 1242cc Punto 60S and 75 (866) cam' in my shed for a potential (sort of stage one) transplant later.
Yes it's on the bump stops, yes it was fun for the first mile and yes it's bloody dangerous.
Anyway driving on the bump stops reminded me of my old Mini and got me thinking. There isn't a Mini any more.
BL Mini's are too expensive. BMW ones are either crap or overpriced crap.
Where are all the cheerful little cars that are cheap and easy to get hold of, easy to modify or upgrade from the parts bin and still utilitarian?
The Cinquecento is probably one of the best of the bunch. 899cc so cheap to insure, Sporting parts bin upgrades and more from the family tree. Can be picked up from £50 to £300 on the road and tunable. There are a couple of t-jet Cinquecento and Seicento projects terrorising exotica. Obviously there are more options like the VW Lupo but you have VAG insurance and the pretentious Dub Scene to deal with. Suzuki Alto are a pain to find parts, Ignis is too new, Swift too big. Citroën C 1,2,3 are all terrible compared to the old Saxo but good luck finding a decent base model one of those and the pandemic of VTR/VTS/V6 powered Saxo's that are "Still 1.1 on da log book innit bruv" should all come with a free barge pole. 107's are coffins, CityRover's can't handle the power they have let alone tuning or transplants. That's just about it.
Don't get me wrong for a rushed job the BMW MINI isn't all that bad. It weighed more than the Neon 1.6 engine could handle, as big as an Astra outside but smaller than a Corsa inside, poorly engineered but a good marketing exercise. Apart from that it was a welcome alternative to hum drum euroboxes of the period and gave the "it" crowd something that wasn't French to break down in.
Now you can get a BMW MINI for a lot less than a real Mini it almost makes sense but any bargain BMW is potentially a bottomless pit and the MINI is no exception to that rule.
So if this Cinquecento is going to a homage to what the Mini used to be it will have to stay 899cc for now.
You can almost feel the Pooooooowwwwwweeeeerrrr!
...wer
...wer
...wer
Okay the boot isn't that big.
These...
...will have to go for a start.
So what's the plan?
Two of my nephews are seventeen next year so I'm going to get them involved and show them a few tricks I've learned over the years.
There are a few repairs one would expect from a twenty two year old Fiat, sort the suspension, buckets, harnesses and cage.
All in time for a charity track day November 18th (if I can get the time off work) and auctioned of for the same charity just in time for Christmas.
I'm keeping the 899cc engine standard as just like a Mini you do all the other upgrades first and then make it go quicker.
If the car doesn't sell I have a 1242cc Punto 60S and 75 (866) cam' in my shed for a potential (sort of stage one) transplant later.
Edited by Liquid Knight on Thursday 20th October 21:56
Stuck at work today so nothing to report apart from...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300357672740?_trksid=p20...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350248932718?_trksid=p20...
...some eBaying.
Standard size brake discs and good all round pads so I can keep thirteen inch wheels (remember I'm after Mini handling not a tractor) in place.
Cunning plan for suspension already in motion.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300357672740?_trksid=p20...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350248932718?_trksid=p20...
...some eBaying.
Standard size brake discs and good all round pads so I can keep thirteen inch wheels (remember I'm after Mini handling not a tractor) in place.
Cunning plan for suspension already in motion.
Just an upgrade to Sporting shocks and -30mm springs but as the Sporting is already 20mm lower it will be the same as -50mm from standard.
I also have some upper and lower strut braces in mind and it all comes down to wheel and tyre choice. I have a set of phase one Uno turbo wheels...
...that once lived on my Panda Fantasia but I'd rather not need spacers and longer bolts. A set of six X-1/9 wheels I was going to blast, paint and sell for a mark up, again spacers and longer bolts required. My Fiorino steels are an inch wider, have the same offset and look standard. Stealth isn't a consideration this time as I'll be chucking my nephews around the track I will be fitting a cage, buckets and harnesses but they would appear to be the best option. Cinquecento wheels are a premium at the moment and Seicento wheels need a 2mm spacer on the back. I don't mind spacers but some tracks might so it would be better not to have them just in case.
I also have a very cunning plan to get free tyres but more about that later.
I also have some upper and lower strut braces in mind and it all comes down to wheel and tyre choice. I have a set of phase one Uno turbo wheels...
...that once lived on my Panda Fantasia but I'd rather not need spacers and longer bolts. A set of six X-1/9 wheels I was going to blast, paint and sell for a mark up, again spacers and longer bolts required. My Fiorino steels are an inch wider, have the same offset and look standard. Stealth isn't a consideration this time as I'll be chucking my nephews around the track I will be fitting a cage, buckets and harnesses but they would appear to be the best option. Cinquecento wheels are a premium at the moment and Seicento wheels need a 2mm spacer on the back. I don't mind spacers but some tracks might so it would be better not to have them just in case.
I also have a very cunning plan to get free tyres but more about that later.
No nephews today one has a chest infection and the other is at his girlfriends. Meh, he'll soon find out cars are more reliable, fun and cheaper. 
Also no parts as yet so I raided my shed and found the bonnet pins from the N/A Coupe 16V and pin cups I bought for Guff II.
1/ Open the bonnet and remove the sound proofing membrane.
2/ Now remove the rubber bonnet stops.
3/ Use the bungholes to test fit the pins.
4/ Mark where the pins touch the bonnet and drill some pilot holes.
5/ Cut the pins to length...
...refit...
...and make sure they do not interfere with the headlights.
6/ Take a hole cutter and use the pilot hole as a guide for the pin hole and draw around the rear of the cup for the other hole.
7/ Cut between the holes with a grinder and place the cup in the hole. Make sure the edges are clean and not sharp with a flap wheel.
8/ Drill and pop-rivet the cup in place and pop-rivet the pin from underneath.
9/ Do the same the other side and you're finished.
10/ The bonnet liner, opening mechanism and steel you have cut away makes roughly 750g...
...and the pins and cups weigh 150g so that's a saving of 600g. Cinquecento Superleggera.
Also no parts as yet so I raided my shed and found the bonnet pins from the N/A Coupe 16V and pin cups I bought for Guff II.
1/ Open the bonnet and remove the sound proofing membrane.
2/ Now remove the rubber bonnet stops.
3/ Use the bungholes to test fit the pins.
4/ Mark where the pins touch the bonnet and drill some pilot holes.
5/ Cut the pins to length...
...refit...
...and make sure they do not interfere with the headlights.
6/ Take a hole cutter and use the pilot hole as a guide for the pin hole and draw around the rear of the cup for the other hole.
7/ Cut between the holes with a grinder and place the cup in the hole. Make sure the edges are clean and not sharp with a flap wheel.
8/ Drill and pop-rivet the cup in place and pop-rivet the pin from underneath.
9/ Do the same the other side and you're finished.
10/ The bonnet liner, opening mechanism and steel you have cut away makes roughly 750g...
...and the pins and cups weigh 150g so that's a saving of 600g. Cinquecento Superleggera.
https://youtu.be/WsV4eaYqhxQ
Sorry but this is a guide for my nephews as they missed helping me with it.
Sorry but this is a guide for my nephews as they missed helping me with it.
More weight shaving today.
Take the number plate off.
Open the bonnet and locate the 8mm nut holding the badge on.
Once removed use an old ice scraper to get rid of as much of the double sided tape as possible and wipe with a cloth soaked in thinners. Select a hole cutter that can fit inside the crevice where the badge was.
Use the hole cutter to make eight holes in the number plate recess taking care not to drill into the radiator.
Take one of the disc you have cut out of the bumper, trim it to fit where the badge was and stick it in place with double sided tape.
Next take a number plate sheet and letters making sure the spacing is all legal. Half inch between the first letter and number, an inch and a half between the number and next letter and half an inch between the final letters. Mount this on the lip of the bonnet and you're done.
The number plate, screws, badge, nut and plastic cut away from the bumper were 410g. The number plate sheet was 15g with the backing paper so 400g saved.
That's the first Kilo.
Take the number plate off.
Open the bonnet and locate the 8mm nut holding the badge on.
Once removed use an old ice scraper to get rid of as much of the double sided tape as possible and wipe with a cloth soaked in thinners. Select a hole cutter that can fit inside the crevice where the badge was.
Use the hole cutter to make eight holes in the number plate recess taking care not to drill into the radiator.
Take one of the disc you have cut out of the bumper, trim it to fit where the badge was and stick it in place with double sided tape.
Next take a number plate sheet and letters making sure the spacing is all legal. Half inch between the first letter and number, an inch and a half between the number and next letter and half an inch between the final letters. Mount this on the lip of the bonnet and you're done.
The number plate, screws, badge, nut and plastic cut away from the bumper were 410g. The number plate sheet was 15g with the backing paper so 400g saved.
That's the first Kilo.
Edited by Liquid Knight on Tuesday 18th October 17:38
This is bad.
I finally have the car on ramps to fit the old springs and spare one I found in my shed. To stop the bloody thing grounding out while I waited for new springs and shocks.
The bump stop on the divers side had pushed through the spring mount of the wishbone. The inner sill on the passenger side is filler, driver side inner sill is rust, the floor has rust where all the seat belt mounts are bolted through and best of all the fuel tank is split along the join on the passenger side.
Just as well I took the previous owners advice and didn't put more the £10 in there and also lucky none of the times I ground out made enough sparks to blow me up.
Okay a fuel cell I don't have the budget for and more welding than I have time for.
I'll get the front suspension done and see if it's as bad as I fear.
I finally have the car on ramps to fit the old springs and spare one I found in my shed. To stop the bloody thing grounding out while I waited for new springs and shocks.
The bump stop on the divers side had pushed through the spring mount of the wishbone. The inner sill on the passenger side is filler, driver side inner sill is rust, the floor has rust where all the seat belt mounts are bolted through and best of all the fuel tank is split along the join on the passenger side.
Just as well I took the previous owners advice and didn't put more the £10 in there and also lucky none of the times I ground out made enough sparks to blow me up.
Okay a fuel cell I don't have the budget for and more welding than I have time for.
I'll get the front suspension done and see if it's as bad as I fear.
This is what was left of the bump stop on the drivers side.
Note the lack of top collar for me to fit my spring to.
Lucky I have a shed full of crap eh?
Not so lucky was the passenger side. See if you can spot the two things wrong with this picture.
That's right the top bolt didn't have any washers and the bottom bolt?
Was cheap galvanised M10 from a hobby shop.
If that bolt has sheered whilst driving and with no suspension to absorb any issues like that the car would have pulled to the left so violently it would have rolled if I were going more than 20mph.
Again lucky I shed full of crap. It took a minute to find the right bolt and washers.
There was even less of the passenger side bump stop left.
Right I'm off to buy a lotto ticket.
I do a thing on my Facebook page called "Driveway CSI"
Any repairs or work I do I share with my fellow mechanically minded friends.
Today's Driveway CSI was a different format.
Cause - Reusing a rusty jubilee clip when the radiator was replaced six months ago.
Effect - Snapped the bleed pipe.
Bodge - Super glued back on.
Repair - Replace radiator and all new jubilee clips...
...I even made sure the fan wasn't rubbing the new one.
Bodges are the Cancer of the car world.
Any repairs or work I do I share with my fellow mechanically minded friends.
Today's Driveway CSI was a different format.
Cause - Reusing a rusty jubilee clip when the radiator was replaced six months ago.
Effect - Snapped the bleed pipe.
Bodge - Super glued back on.
Repair - Replace radiator and all new jubilee clips...
...I even made sure the fan wasn't rubbing the new one.
Bodges are the Cancer of the car world.
So has this Cinquecento been like a Mini?
In many ways yes and once the rose tinted glasses were ripped off and smashed to pieces I remembered how much of a pain in the faff the Mini was as well.
You know those "Issigonis moments" that were like Yin and Yang?
Go-karting round a corner in a way that defied the Laws of Physics let alone the Road Traffic Act thinking to yourself "Issigonis was a genius". Trying to do a simple job but the bonnet never opened enough and the there were a dozen things in the way that in a normal car wouldn't be and you catch yourself thinking "Issigonis was a pillock" (or worse).
The challenge was always half the fun really. I still have a tool I had to make to get the air filter funnel off the back of the SU carb' to fit a pancake filter. Taking the carb' off was an extra three hours work and needed a gasket you never happened to have to hand (not that you could get to the bottom nuts anyway because the funnel was in the way).
A lot of the jobs I had to do on the Cinquecento were very similar to my Mini memories. Fitting rear suspension and noticing the rear subframe was a cosmetic item rather than structural.
Discovering "advisory" items on the MOT would have been failures if the tester hadn't given his guide dog the day off.
Bodges that would be considered Attempted Murder if they were done with any kind of malicious intent.
So yeah; in many ways this Cinquecento has reminded me of my old Minis.
Here's one of my old Minis "Emily" front and center of my memory board.
It hasn't been updated since I went digital and share my thoughts and memories on the internet instead.
Let's quantify this...
Better than a Mini...
1/ Load space, proper hatch back with folding seats and all the stuff you would expect from a little Fiat. Swiss Army knives on wheels.
2/ The bonnet opens enough for me to work on/around/near the engine without needing stitches in the back of my head.
3/ I can sit in the front and fit a real life human being in the back. At six foot two that was impossible in my Minis.
4/ Consumable parts are plentiful, cheap and available in more places.
5/ Five speed gearbox as standard so 70mph doesn't give you a nose bleed.
As good as the Mini...
1/ Handling. Arguably but the Cinquecento is fun and can deal with the Minis arch nemesis Pot Holes!
2/ The little 899cc push rod engine is sprite of a thing for what it is.
3/ Tuning. Okay the 899 isn't going to give you whiplash but a good starting point to teach the basics. 1108cc or 1242cc FIRE, 1368cc SuperFIRE and 150 t-jet options are easily as good as binning the 850 for a 998, 1098, 1275, 1330, 1380, 1430 and Metro Turbo conversions within the family tree.
4/ Rust. Yep they both rust as good as each other.
5/ Economy, classic insurance more mpg than mph.
Not as good as the Mini...
1/ Body panels. Okay the simple stuff; wings, outer sills and other bits are available but you can still get every single panel for a Mini.
2/ Cult following. Nowhere near as popular as the Mini. I've never seen "Cinquecento Magazine" or "Cinque-World" in WH Smiths but still a very friendly, warm and knowledgeable bunch.
3/ While the Cinquecento uses materials more efficiently than Issigonis could when Steel was rationed the Mini will always be regarded as a timeless classic the Fiat is boxy in a very 90's way.
4/ Wheels tyres. The 145-70-13 tyres are a tragedy and a compromise too far. Easily remedied with a set of Sporting alloys or Fiorino Steel wheels with 175-60-13's.
5/ Bodges. I have seen some poor repairs on the fifteen Minis I have owned over the years but none of them have been life threatening. Minis have always attracted a more discerning customer so you have never been able to get away with what you find at the lower end of the market where the Cinquecento is right now. Soon to go up in value as neglected cars are being scrapped and decent ones are in classic/retro territory.
I have endured and enjoyed my sixth Cinquecento as much as my fifteen Minis in many ways. It saddens me that the floor isn't good enough to finish the project and the car won't be auctioned off for charity as planned but on of my rules in these situations...
Never try to sell something you are not willing to buy.
...so she's off to a mate who has bigger and better plans. Just like my Mini Clubman I sold so instead of being another Metro powered 1275GT replica she ended up being one of the first in the UK to have a Honda V-Tec conversion. The Cinquecento is off up North to get the 899 engine replaced by a 240bhp VW 1.8 20V Turbo from a rear ended Golf.
In many ways yes and once the rose tinted glasses were ripped off and smashed to pieces I remembered how much of a pain in the faff the Mini was as well.
You know those "Issigonis moments" that were like Yin and Yang?
Go-karting round a corner in a way that defied the Laws of Physics let alone the Road Traffic Act thinking to yourself "Issigonis was a genius". Trying to do a simple job but the bonnet never opened enough and the there were a dozen things in the way that in a normal car wouldn't be and you catch yourself thinking "Issigonis was a pillock" (or worse).
The challenge was always half the fun really. I still have a tool I had to make to get the air filter funnel off the back of the SU carb' to fit a pancake filter. Taking the carb' off was an extra three hours work and needed a gasket you never happened to have to hand (not that you could get to the bottom nuts anyway because the funnel was in the way).
A lot of the jobs I had to do on the Cinquecento were very similar to my Mini memories. Fitting rear suspension and noticing the rear subframe was a cosmetic item rather than structural.
Discovering "advisory" items on the MOT would have been failures if the tester hadn't given his guide dog the day off.
Bodges that would be considered Attempted Murder if they were done with any kind of malicious intent.
So yeah; in many ways this Cinquecento has reminded me of my old Minis.
Here's one of my old Minis "Emily" front and center of my memory board.
It hasn't been updated since I went digital and share my thoughts and memories on the internet instead.
Let's quantify this...
Better than a Mini...
1/ Load space, proper hatch back with folding seats and all the stuff you would expect from a little Fiat. Swiss Army knives on wheels.
2/ The bonnet opens enough for me to work on/around/near the engine without needing stitches in the back of my head.
3/ I can sit in the front and fit a real life human being in the back. At six foot two that was impossible in my Minis.
4/ Consumable parts are plentiful, cheap and available in more places.
5/ Five speed gearbox as standard so 70mph doesn't give you a nose bleed.
As good as the Mini...
1/ Handling. Arguably but the Cinquecento is fun and can deal with the Minis arch nemesis Pot Holes!
2/ The little 899cc push rod engine is sprite of a thing for what it is.
3/ Tuning. Okay the 899 isn't going to give you whiplash but a good starting point to teach the basics. 1108cc or 1242cc FIRE, 1368cc SuperFIRE and 150 t-jet options are easily as good as binning the 850 for a 998, 1098, 1275, 1330, 1380, 1430 and Metro Turbo conversions within the family tree.
4/ Rust. Yep they both rust as good as each other.
5/ Economy, classic insurance more mpg than mph.
Not as good as the Mini...
1/ Body panels. Okay the simple stuff; wings, outer sills and other bits are available but you can still get every single panel for a Mini.
2/ Cult following. Nowhere near as popular as the Mini. I've never seen "Cinquecento Magazine" or "Cinque-World" in WH Smiths but still a very friendly, warm and knowledgeable bunch.
3/ While the Cinquecento uses materials more efficiently than Issigonis could when Steel was rationed the Mini will always be regarded as a timeless classic the Fiat is boxy in a very 90's way.
4/ Wheels tyres. The 145-70-13 tyres are a tragedy and a compromise too far. Easily remedied with a set of Sporting alloys or Fiorino Steel wheels with 175-60-13's.
5/ Bodges. I have seen some poor repairs on the fifteen Minis I have owned over the years but none of them have been life threatening. Minis have always attracted a more discerning customer so you have never been able to get away with what you find at the lower end of the market where the Cinquecento is right now. Soon to go up in value as neglected cars are being scrapped and decent ones are in classic/retro territory.
I have endured and enjoyed my sixth Cinquecento as much as my fifteen Minis in many ways. It saddens me that the floor isn't good enough to finish the project and the car won't be auctioned off for charity as planned but on of my rules in these situations...
Never try to sell something you are not willing to buy.
...so she's off to a mate who has bigger and better plans. Just like my Mini Clubman I sold so instead of being another Metro powered 1275GT replica she ended up being one of the first in the UK to have a Honda V-Tec conversion. The Cinquecento is off up North to get the 899 engine replaced by a 240bhp VW 1.8 20V Turbo from a rear ended Golf.
I thought I would revive this thread as I took my daily driver Bravo HLX on track Friday and had a great time.
https://www.facebook.com/Franks-Charity-Track-Day-...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/3350326800...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/3347549927...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/3324638959...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/3281620000...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/3281620653...
The car performed really well considering the only modifications were decent tyres on terrible heavy wheels and green stuff pads that could cook the discs after six laps.
I was the slowest thing there and did my best to keep out of the way but by the end I was having so much fun I didn't care about times and trap speeds. So much so I forgot to turn my camera on for the last two sessions.
A really great day and it's money going to a good cause.
https://www.facebook.com/Franks-Charity-Track-Day-...
https://www.facebook.com/Franks-Charity-Track-Day-...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/3350326800...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/3347549927...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/3324638959...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/3281620000...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/3281620653...
The car performed really well considering the only modifications were decent tyres on terrible heavy wheels and green stuff pads that could cook the discs after six laps.
I was the slowest thing there and did my best to keep out of the way but by the end I was having so much fun I didn't care about times and trap speeds. So much so I forgot to turn my camera on for the last two sessions.
A really great day and it's money going to a good cause.
https://www.facebook.com/Franks-Charity-Track-Day-...
Edited by Liquid Knight on Monday 27th March 15:18
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