916 Spider Twin spark
Discussion
Hi all.
Ive been looking for something special for the weekend, but wanted a change from the MX5. I really like the look of the 916 Spider, Or GTV, The V6 is out of my price range sadly, so would be looking at a Twin spark. How are they handling wise? Or are they more of a cruiser.
I do like the look of these ones, would they be risky at this price point?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225377024409?hash=item3...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225174954920?hash=item3...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266168657235?hash=item3...
Ive been looking for something special for the weekend, but wanted a change from the MX5. I really like the look of the 916 Spider, Or GTV, The V6 is out of my price range sadly, so would be looking at a Twin spark. How are they handling wise? Or are they more of a cruiser.
I do like the look of these ones, would they be risky at this price point?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225377024409?hash=item3...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225174954920?hash=item3...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266168657235?hash=item3...
Edited by jamesbilluk on Monday 10th April 19:41
wal 45 said:
I've got a 1996 Twin Spark Spider I spent the best part of 6 years restoring, I really rate them but they most definitely aren't an MX 5 or Lotus Elise.
The Twin Spark engine really suits these and 150 (CF1) or 155 BHP (CF2/3) is all you need in one, a V6 is just too much for the chassis which isn't particularly stiff. When the suspension is fully refreshed they handle really quite nicely (Alfa used the FWD Lotus Elan as the benchmark) but if it hasn't they can feel a bit rubbish. I left mine as standard as possible and only used poly bushes where I couldn't get standard items.
The 2 cars that are still available on the list you've got look OK, the green Phase One has been for sale for a long time but is a launch edition colour. It's got a few bits that'll need changing but looks honest, the red one looks slightly better condition from the photos. I'd be tempted by the green one though as that colour is really rare now (I've got a Rosso Red car).
Mine is an early Phase One and if I was doing one again I'd look at one of these later cars but you really need decide on condition and how they actually drive. They don't rust too badly but it's worth looking at the 916 forum on Alfa Owner for some real in depth info on what specifically goes wrong.
They are more of a GT car than a back road or track car but are very entertaining and fun, I really like mine and have no plans to sell it.
Thank you for that, very helpful. The Twin Spark engine really suits these and 150 (CF1) or 155 BHP (CF2/3) is all you need in one, a V6 is just too much for the chassis which isn't particularly stiff. When the suspension is fully refreshed they handle really quite nicely (Alfa used the FWD Lotus Elan as the benchmark) but if it hasn't they can feel a bit rubbish. I left mine as standard as possible and only used poly bushes where I couldn't get standard items.
The 2 cars that are still available on the list you've got look OK, the green Phase One has been for sale for a long time but is a launch edition colour. It's got a few bits that'll need changing but looks honest, the red one looks slightly better condition from the photos. I'd be tempted by the green one though as that colour is really rare now (I've got a Rosso Red car).
Mine is an early Phase One and if I was doing one again I'd look at one of these later cars but you really need decide on condition and how they actually drive. They don't rust too badly but it's worth looking at the 916 forum on Alfa Owner for some real in depth info on what specifically goes wrong.
They are more of a GT car than a back road or track car but are very entertaining and fun, I really like mine and have no plans to sell it.
Edited by wal 45 on Tuesday 11th April 11:16
That sounds just what I'm after really, I'm not the fastest driver, so this would be great, enough power, looks and sounds good too
I must admit, I do like the green, although the Red is hard to resist as well.
This was another one that I was considering, it seems to be a phase 2, more money, but still in budget for me.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304025...
wal 45 said:
Pleased to help, the 916 forum on AO is pretty good for advice as are the UK FB 916 sites...some very knowledgeable and helpful people out there.
The only alarm bells with the Phase 2 you quoted is that it seems to have been off the road for circa 10 years "somewhere". Mileage didn't increase by much either so it didn't go abroad, might be a really good reason but I'd certainly ask.
Good spec though by the look of the photos but strangely no under the bonnet or back of the soft top photos amongst the 49, wonder why? Hoods are about £1200 or so to get done (had mine done last year).
Thank you The only alarm bells with the Phase 2 you quoted is that it seems to have been off the road for circa 10 years "somewhere". Mileage didn't increase by much either so it didn't go abroad, might be a really good reason but I'd certainly ask.
Good spec though by the look of the photos but strangely no under the bonnet or back of the soft top photos amongst the 49, wonder why? Hoods are about £1200 or so to get done (had mine done last year).
I shall have a look on that section, I think I'm a member still from when I had my 159, really helpful site. Very good point that! With regards to the time off road.
And lack of the photos. I think it does say its imported, but they didnt say from where. May well give that one a miss with it's price as well.
I wish I had made a move on that Zoe Yellow one from Ebay, lovely looking car that.
Brilliant post, thank you!
I'm off to see this one on Monday https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304025...
The MOT discrepancy I was assured is it being imported. And used as a second car. Its said to have genuine miles, and full service history with a folder of paperwork, also only 2 other owners, which is good.
I did do an online check on it, and the milage check all came back OK. Not sure how accurate that is though. The roof works fine apprently, although there is a tiny bit of lacqure peel on the rear, which he will send me a photo of.
I'm off to see this one on Monday https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304025...
The MOT discrepancy I was assured is it being imported. And used as a second car. Its said to have genuine miles, and full service history with a folder of paperwork, also only 2 other owners, which is good.
I did do an online check on it, and the milage check all came back OK. Not sure how accurate that is though. The roof works fine apprently, although there is a tiny bit of lacqure peel on the rear, which he will send me a photo of.
paulmakin said:
That looks nice and well priced.
At that mileage it should have just had its second belt/pump/variator change done. Not wallet crippling if it hasnt but the vendor is advertising a FSH.
I just noticed this one on the bay of dreams - also looks good and ticks the "belts/MoT/rust repaired/all keys present" boxes. New HG also
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295620232614?hash=item4...
Looking forward to having a look/drive. At that mileage it should have just had its second belt/pump/variator change done. Not wallet crippling if it hasnt but the vendor is advertising a FSH.
I just noticed this one on the bay of dreams - also looks good and ticks the "belts/MoT/rust repaired/all keys present" boxes. New HG also
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295620232614?hash=item4...
Edited by paulmakin on Thursday 13th April 18:32
I was concerned about it's hibernation, but from him reading out the history, it does seem to have been re commissioned well.
Will definitely make sure to have a good look through the history. There's a huge folder apparently. I have NJS close to me, so may get them to, if it hasn't.
I shall have your post on my phone ready as well, when I'm looking round the car.
The black one does look lovely, and looks to be in great condition.
Just having my evening browse of YouTube, and since I've watched nothing but 916 videos, this popped up!
Doesn't look good.. Can't imagine the paint work has been sorted since
https://youtu.be/Yy6MSuoXoFQ
Doesn't look good.. Can't imagine the paint work has been sorted since
https://youtu.be/Yy6MSuoXoFQ
paulmakin said:
Inactivity never good for vehicles, especially Italians but..
Admittedly i'm speaking of a V6 but, inspired by replying to your post, today i went to my autohaus (mates very big shed) and unpacked my own 916.
To my shame, it has been stored for at least 5 years.
With the exception of an initial Code fault which prevented start but did allow me to spin it over without firing up (and fixed by merely using the master key a couple of times) it started first time. I added fresh fuel and a new battery but thats about all. It's now starting, stopping, going round corners almost as if it had never been laid up.
It will now receive the re-comissioning that hopefully you will see evidence of when you view this car.
Great that's yours is up and running again Admittedly i'm speaking of a V6 but, inspired by replying to your post, today i went to my autohaus (mates very big shed) and unpacked my own 916.
To my shame, it has been stored for at least 5 years.
With the exception of an initial Code fault which prevented start but did allow me to spin it over without firing up (and fixed by merely using the master key a couple of times) it started first time. I added fresh fuel and a new battery but thats about all. It's now starting, stopping, going round corners almost as if it had never been laid up.
It will now receive the re-comissioning that hopefully you will see evidence of when you view this car.
CarlosSainz100 said:
At least you can see where all the bad points are on this car, Neil at Italia Autos has basically done you a free pre purchase inspection!
Looks like the sale didn't go through at £5.5k and I'm not surprised. A TS is not worth that.
At 4k....maybe. I reckon despite the advert you could chip him down at least £500 quid.
Very true! Looks like the sale didn't go through at £5.5k and I'm not surprised. A TS is not worth that.
At 4k....maybe. I reckon despite the advert you could chip him down at least £500 quid.
I did wonder that, certainly quite highly priced then!
I did message the seller, they did say they could get it waxoyled. I mentioned my concern with the paint and the roof, after the video, he didn't mention that at all..
CarlosSainz100 said:
I wouldn't want it waxoyled as it can cover a multitude of sins, although I think they do a clear version as well.
All this is making me realise how much I miss my old one!
If you could get this for around 3.5k based on what Italia Autos say (and I rate him very highly) I think that would be ok, but only if the belts have been done recently. They ain't cheap if done properly.
I was very impressed with the video, and the detail Neil went into. All this is making me realise how much I miss my old one!
If you could get this for around 3.5k based on what Italia Autos say (and I rate him very highly) I think that would be ok, but only if the belts have been done recently. They ain't cheap if done properly.
I watched the follow on with the Silver one in too.
That was another concerning thing, I tried to quiz him about the belts, the last history is it been done was 2015 apprently... Which is worrying.
wal 45 said:
Well found and I'd totally forgotten Neil had done this video, definite bit of luck finding that and he's saved you a whole load of work.
My personal view and knowing what this costs to do even when doing it yourself is to find another one.... There is a lot that needs doing to make that where I'd think you'd want it to be, guessed it needed a hood (circa £1200 as you'll need the whole hood as it's shrunk) from the angles the photos were taken from.
Whilst the underside looks OK superficially you'll be surprised what lurks under that Alfa underseal, I had to take all of mine off and there was a lot hidden. Easily treatable but a lot of work if you do it yourself and undoubtedly expensive if you pay someone.
All belts, waterpump and probably a Variator are a given for this car, it's every 3 years to change irrespective of mileage. Add in a clutch, rad, brake lines and probably quite a few bushes and you can easily be a few thousand of outlay in with this car.
And the final nail for me is the paintwork, you'll never match the red and it'll just annoy as it'll really stick out.
As for values though for TS they are going up and regardless of what some Busso owners think the insurance companies agree, mine has an agreed value way higher than £4K, this is my one. Good luck with the search.
I must admit, I wached it when I first started searching for the 916, and wasn't sure about it! It was the exhaust on this one that made me recognise i (and the reg number) Certainly very lucky! My personal view and knowing what this costs to do even when doing it yourself is to find another one.... There is a lot that needs doing to make that where I'd think you'd want it to be, guessed it needed a hood (circa £1200 as you'll need the whole hood as it's shrunk) from the angles the photos were taken from.
Whilst the underside looks OK superficially you'll be surprised what lurks under that Alfa underseal, I had to take all of mine off and there was a lot hidden. Easily treatable but a lot of work if you do it yourself and undoubtedly expensive if you pay someone.
All belts, waterpump and probably a Variator are a given for this car, it's every 3 years to change irrespective of mileage. Add in a clutch, rad, brake lines and probably quite a few bushes and you can easily be a few thousand of outlay in with this car.
And the final nail for me is the paintwork, you'll never match the red and it'll just annoy as it'll really stick out.
As for values though for TS they are going up and regardless of what some Busso owners think the insurance companies agree, mine has an agreed value way higher than £4K, this is my one. Good luck with the search.
It would certainly have to go to NJS oft the work, as I wouldn't be able to do it (managed fail at changing a side light in the 159..!)
I did wonder that, there could be all sorts hiding under there. I think it's the way the seller conveniently didn't photo the rear of the car with the lacqure peel in sight, or the hole in the window. I think in one of the image you van see the mark from the sticker still.
The paint doesn't look great at all, and would be more cost!
From looking at them for sale, they do seem to be, I think I'll have to up my budget perhaps.
That does look lovely! And those alloy wheels as well.
paulmakin said:
oops - way overdue on time if not mileage then. The cambelt kit alone can be close to £200 depending on supplier, then cam locking tools, variator removal spanner thingy, fluids, water pump etc. Would have to check but i think the current price for a 72k service on a TS (includes belts) is around £600
I've played cambelt roulette on loads of TS's in the past and never had a failure but this was back when 145s, GTVs, 156s etc could be picked up for just a few hundred pounds so a low risk financially. I wouldnt risk it now given the prices being asked for these cars
Definitely! And concerning there's not much in the way of history from 2021 to 2023 either.I've played cambelt roulette on loads of TS's in the past and never had a failure but this was back when 145s, GTVs, 156s etc could be picked up for just a few hundred pounds so a low risk financially. I wouldnt risk it now given the prices being asked for these cars
Edited by paulmakin on Friday 14th April 08:53
Ah, so not cheap to get it done then. I would have to do to NJS for this as well.
Knowing me, I would loose as well, and end up with trouble in the future with it.
CarlosSainz100 said:
Neil's work is very good but he does charge more than other Alfa garages I've used. I suppose you get what you pay for. I've always been very happy with his work.
I hadn't realised the roof was knackered on that red one too. In that case I'd find another one. It will definitely need a cambelt as well, that's why he hasn't sold it.
I sold my black and tan one for 3k I think back in 2018. It was basically mint and I'd just had a new rear screen put in by an old school bloke in Kings Heath in Birmingham, it had just over 100k miles and was an X reg.
They are lovely cars but you could easily spend a grand on the belts and some suspension.
He did seem great. I would still hi to NJS though, as ive been very impressed with his work on the 159.I hadn't realised the roof was knackered on that red one too. In that case I'd find another one. It will definitely need a cambelt as well, that's why he hasn't sold it.
I sold my black and tan one for 3k I think back in 2018. It was basically mint and I'd just had a new rear screen put in by an old school bloke in Kings Heath in Birmingham, it had just over 100k miles and was an X reg.
They are lovely cars but you could easily spend a grand on the belts and some suspension.
It does seem to be mounting up price wise. I didnt like the fact the roof/rear window/ lacqure peeling wasn't photographed in the images.
Theres quite A few nice PH1s for sale, apart from the dash differences, was there much between them?
CarlosSainz100 said:
Neil's work is very good but he does charge more than other Alfa garages I've used. I suppose you get what you pay for. I've always been very happy with his work.
I hadn't realised the roof was knackered on that red one too. In that case I'd find another one. It will definitely need a cambelt as well, that's why he hasn't sold it.
I sold my black and tan one for 3k I think back in 2018. It was basically mint and I'd just had a new rear screen put in by an old school bloke in Kings Heath in Birmingham, it had just over 100k miles and was an X reg.
They are lovely cars but you could easily spend a grand on the belts and some suspension.
He did seem great. I would still hi to NJS though, as ive been very impressed with his work on the 159.I hadn't realised the roof was knackered on that red one too. In that case I'd find another one. It will definitely need a cambelt as well, that's why he hasn't sold it.
I sold my black and tan one for 3k I think back in 2018. It was basically mint and I'd just had a new rear screen put in by an old school bloke in Kings Heath in Birmingham, it had just over 100k miles and was an X reg.
They are lovely cars but you could easily spend a grand on the belts and some suspension.
It does seem to be mounting up price wise. I didnt like the fact the roof/rear window/ lacqure peeling wasn't photographed in the images.
Theres quite A few nice PH1s for sale, apart from the dash differences, was there much between them?
paulmakin said:
there are quite a few differences between Ph1 and 2 and also between early and late Ph2's
colour coded sill covers, revised front grille, colour coded mirrors, different seats (leather Momo common on the Ph2, available as an option on the Ph1), revised dash etc. came with the facelift. air con is manual on phase 1s but auto climate control on Ph2's. auto drop on the windows on later Ph2 and i seem to recall that later cars also got the rose jointed rear arms as per the V6's
mechanical revisions were introduced with the variable inlet giving an extra 5hp on the Ph2, revised front pipe/cat set up - later Ph2 got the twin cats i think. Plastic engine cover and black bulkhead cover also added
Ph2 got less fussy 16" wheels and 17" teledials optioned
Always difficult to be definitive though as there were a lot of crossover parts and options on the early cars became standard on later vehicles
Thank you for that. Ah, quite a few differences then! colour coded sill covers, revised front grille, colour coded mirrors, different seats (leather Momo common on the Ph2, available as an option on the Ph1), revised dash etc. came with the facelift. air con is manual on phase 1s but auto climate control on Ph2's. auto drop on the windows on later Ph2 and i seem to recall that later cars also got the rose jointed rear arms as per the V6's
mechanical revisions were introduced with the variable inlet giving an extra 5hp on the Ph2, revised front pipe/cat set up - later Ph2 got the twin cats i think. Plastic engine cover and black bulkhead cover also added
Ph2 got less fussy 16" wheels and 17" teledials optioned
Always difficult to be definitive though as there were a lot of crossover parts and options on the early cars became standard on later vehicles
I seem to be too carried away on the colour too, I quite like the like green one for sale, but I don't think I'm brave enough.
CarlosSainz100 said:
As long as you don't touch any JTS engines cars with a large bargepole.....
I think the main difference is the ph2 cars are just a bit more modern inside (compared to what came before that is; a place for heads up displays and apple carplay this is not).
The teledials wheels look great but I'd avoid the larger wheels just because the last thing a GTV spider needs is a firmer ride.
I'd also try Facebook gtv owners groups and maybe ao online. Autolusso may know of someone trying to flog a good one, I'd give them a call as well, you never know. What you need is a good privately owned enthusiasts car.
Will definitely stick to the Twin Spark engine. I think the main difference is the ph2 cars are just a bit more modern inside (compared to what came before that is; a place for heads up displays and apple carplay this is not).
The teledials wheels look great but I'd avoid the larger wheels just because the last thing a GTV spider needs is a firmer ride.
I'd also try Facebook gtv owners groups and maybe ao online. Autolusso may know of someone trying to flog a good one, I'd give them a call as well, you never know. What you need is a good privately owned enthusiasts car.
I do like the standard wheels that come with them, both the PH1 style, and PH2 style too.
Good shout that, I shall have a look on the FB groups, and have a phone around as well.
That does sound ideal, one that's been looked after by an enthusiast.
CarlosSainz100 said:
There's one on autotrader for 6k red with cloth seats. From an Alfa specialist. I've never used them but I have heard on ao online that they're good. 6k seems expensive but then, covid. There's also a blue one with tan seats that's the same price but a private sale. He'll never shift that at 6k so maybe a deal to be done.
Just seen the red one at the specialist, it does look good.And the blue with tan leather, shame there's not more detail on it though.
Edited by jamesbilluk on Saturday 15th April 02:24
paulmakin said:
its just a thought and may not suit your plans but a non-rotten and cosmetically good car at a lower price will give you space in the budget to get mechanical stuff sorted, even at a specialist. I see spiders starting at around 2.5k with current MoT etc. You would then have the added security of known provenance
this type of "rolling restoration" car has worked well for me in the past with the caveat that the vehicle, when purchased, has been perfectly useable
re wheels - the teledials are available in 16 and 17 inch. the 16s were, i believe, 156 fitment so check offset. the 17s were pretty much exclusively 916 V6 fitment and can be very expensive to source nowadays.
That could be an option as well.this type of "rolling restoration" car has worked well for me in the past with the caveat that the vehicle, when purchased, has been perfectly useable
re wheels - the teledials are available in 16 and 17 inch. the 16s were, i believe, 156 fitment so check offset. the 17s were pretty much exclusively 916 V6 fitment and can be very expensive to source nowadays.
Edited by paulmakin on Sunday 16th April 10:53
I've been chatting with the seller of a Zoe yellow one up at £4000. He does have this one with less history, and some lacqure peeling. I did do a check on it, and it's coming up as a Cat D. I asked him about it, and it was due to it getting keyed at some point.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/20970400...
Not sure how tricky this would be to colour match as well
paulmakin said:
i'm looking into spray-wrap as my paint is terrible, secondary to the car having been a daily in London for a long time. I'm told that colours can be matched to the original, which would be helpful with an unusual colour such as Zoe.
916 size vehicle seems to be around £1200 (basic, no parts removed).
Thats not too bad at all.916 size vehicle seems to be around £1200 (basic, no parts removed).
Looking at the yellow, the roof doesn't look great either really.
This one looks to have been nicely cared for too
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304106...
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