Yasser Arafat - was he murdered?
Discussion
Chimune said:
found the answer to my own question. Cancer Research UK says:
"one study found that a person smoking two packs a day is exposed to about 5 times as much polonium as a non-smoker but specific parts of their lungs could be exposed to hundreds of times more radiation."
Did Arafat smoke?
The report actually specifically addresses this. They also found high levels of lead 210, which couldn't be explained by smoking, but matches perfectly what you'd expected in a commercial polonium source. "one study found that a person smoking two packs a day is exposed to about 5 times as much polonium as a non-smoker but specific parts of their lungs could be exposed to hundreds of times more radiation."
Did Arafat smoke?
It was never going to be 100% cut and dried this much later, with limited samples and polonium having a ~140 day half life. It does look like he was poisoned though.
When the whole Litvinenko thing was going on a prof I worked with said that he always thought that an alpha emitter would make an excellent 'untraceable' poison. Nobody would think to look for it and the symptoms would be ambiguous. His theory was that the killers in the Litvinenko case messed up the dosage and gave him far too much, making acute radiation poisoning a much easier diagnosis.
mybrainhurts said:
Motive? Oh, do come on...
What would you do, kiss it or kill it?
guardian said:
[url]Yasser Arafat's widow says her marriage was 'a big mistake'[
guardian said:
[url]"I tried to leave him hundreds of times, but he wouldn't let me. Everyone knows how he wouldn't permit me to leave. Especially those in his servitude, they know very well what it was like."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/10/yasser-arafat-widow-wedding-mistakeHard to see her having the means though.
hairykrishna said:
Chimune said:
found the answer to my own question. Cancer Research UK says:
"one study found that a person smoking two packs a day is exposed to about 5 times as much polonium as a non-smoker but specific parts of their lungs could be exposed to hundreds of times more radiation."
Did Arafat smoke?
The report actually specifically addresses this. They also found high levels of lead 210, which couldn't be explained by smoking, but matches perfectly what you'd expected in a commercial polonium source. "one study found that a person smoking two packs a day is exposed to about 5 times as much polonium as a non-smoker but specific parts of their lungs could be exposed to hundreds of times more radiation."
Did Arafat smoke?
It was never going to be 100% cut and dried this much later, with limited samples and polonium having a ~140 day half life. It does look like he was poisoned though.
When the whole Litvinenko thing was going on a prof I worked with said that he always thought that an alpha emitter would make an excellent 'untraceable' poison. Nobody would think to look for it and the symptoms would be ambiguous. His theory was that the killers in the Litvinenko case messed up the dosage and gave him far too much, making acute radiation poisoning a much easier diagnosis.
hairykrishna said:
Chimune said:
found the answer to my own question. Cancer Research UK says:
"one study found that a person smoking two packs a day is exposed to about 5 times as much polonium as a non-smoker but specific parts of their lungs could be exposed to hundreds of times more radiation."
Did Arafat smoke?
The report actually specifically addresses this. They also found high levels of lead 210, which couldn't be explained by smoking, but matches perfectly what you'd expected in a commercial polonium source. "one study found that a person smoking two packs a day is exposed to about 5 times as much polonium as a non-smoker but specific parts of their lungs could be exposed to hundreds of times more radiation."
Did Arafat smoke?
"What happens when I smoke a cigarette?
Research indicates that lead-210 and polonium-210 are present in tobacco smoke as it passes into the lung. The concentration of lead-210 and polonium-210 in tobacco leaf is relatively low, however, this low concentration can accumulate into very high concentrations in the lungs of smokers.
As it passes into the lungs, the smoke impacts the branches of the lung passages, called bronchioles, where the branches split. Tar from tobacco smoke builds up there, and traps lead-210 and polonium-210 against the sensitive tissues of the bronchioles. Studies show filters on ordinary commercial cigarette remove only a modest amount of radioactivity from the smoke inhaled into the lungs of smokers. Most of what is deposited is lead-210, but polonium-210 (whose half life is about 138 days) quickly grows in as the lead-210 (half life = 22.3 years) decays and becomes the dominant radionuclide. Over time, the concentration of polonium-210 directly on tissues of the bronchioles grows very high, and intense localized radiation doses can occur at the bronchioles."
- bolding mine.
Hmmm, I may have misunderstood in my quick skim read read earlier. My understanding was that there was too much Pb-210 to be explained by him being a smoker. Maybe there was a more subtle point underlying their conclusion. I'm going out in a min, but I will give it a proper read tomorrow.
(edit report's here by the way; https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/815515/exp... be warned that it's an annoyingly massive 200mb pdf)
(edit report's here by the way; https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/815515/exp... be warned that it's an annoyingly massive 200mb pdf)
Edited by hairykrishna on Friday 8th November 00:15
upon further reading i dont think tab smoke is involved.
Some interesting discussions on the suject:
Wired.com
and my default go-to source of rational debate:
The Straight Dope
From the above, i have learnt that:
mrs arafat didnt allow an autopsy.
she had the belongings that were tested.
polodium was not found in tissue samples.
not all his belongings had polonium on them
he didnt loose his hair
there is probably too much polonium in his belongings. 20 half lives would have lead to still detectable, but much lower levels than were found.
i smell foul play but only on the part of his missus
Some interesting discussions on the suject:
Wired.com
and my default go-to source of rational debate:
The Straight Dope
From the above, i have learnt that:
mrs arafat didnt allow an autopsy.
she had the belongings that were tested.
polodium was not found in tissue samples.
not all his belongings had polonium on them
he didnt loose his hair
there is probably too much polonium in his belongings. 20 half lives would have lead to still detectable, but much lower levels than were found.
i smell foul play but only on the part of his missus
The Swiss guys analyzed exhumed bones and found polonium - it's not just belongings.
I'm not sure anyone tested any tissue samples for it; it wouldn't show up in a normal toxicology screening.
I'm not sure where you got the impression it's 'too much' polonium? That's not what the Lancet article concluded.
Hair loss is a symptom sometimes associated with very high dose acute radiation poisoning. Some people can get a very hefty dose without all their hair falling out.
I'm not sure anyone tested any tissue samples for it; it wouldn't show up in a normal toxicology screening.
I'm not sure where you got the impression it's 'too much' polonium? That's not what the Lancet article concluded.
Hair loss is a symptom sometimes associated with very high dose acute radiation poisoning. Some people can get a very hefty dose without all their hair falling out.
well today we see the Palestinian dood in charge of the entire investigation into why he died, is much more interested in saying that Israel did it (what ever 'It' is ), than saying it was polonium that killed him.
Youd think that he would be shouting it from the rooftops if thats what the reports said. But they didnt say that. and he doesnt care. whats important is that Israel did it. roll on another 10 years of his pals being in charge of their little patch of land and its desprate inhabitants.
As with most things in the M.E - nothing is what it seems.
Youd think that he would be shouting it from the rooftops if thats what the reports said. But they didnt say that. and he doesnt care. whats important is that Israel did it. roll on another 10 years of his pals being in charge of their little patch of land and its desprate inhabitants.
As with most things in the M.E - nothing is what it seems.
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