Where to go for a proper 4-wheel alignment
Discussion
I know what settings I want on my car, so I pay £80 at my local garage.
If you just want factory settings then anywhere with the right machine can do it.
But improving turn in at low speeds and straight line stability at high speeds is a tricky one as the two are contradictory, so I reckon in this instance Centre Gravity or another similar specialist like Parr or JZM might be a good shout to spend the time helping you to find a compromise you are happy with.
If you just want factory settings then anywhere with the right machine can do it.
But improving turn in at low speeds and straight line stability at high speeds is a tricky one as the two are contradictory, so I reckon in this instance Centre Gravity or another similar specialist like Parr or JZM might be a good shout to spend the time helping you to find a compromise you are happy with.
MrCooke said:
I know what settings I want on my car, so I pay £80 at my local garage.
If you just want factory settings then anywhere with the right machine can do it.
But improving turn in at low speeds and straight line stability at high speeds is a tricky one as the two are contradictory, so I reckon in this instance Centre Gravity or another similar specialist like Parr or JZM might be a good shout to spend the time helping you to find a compromise you are happy with.
this is it. with the right machine and someone suitably competent operating it camber, castor and toe can be done easily. but if there are complications (as there often are esp with older cars that have seized bits) then you might find more comfort in taking it to someone that has relevant experience.If you just want factory settings then anywhere with the right machine can do it.
But improving turn in at low speeds and straight line stability at high speeds is a tricky one as the two are contradictory, so I reckon in this instance Centre Gravity or another similar specialist like Parr or JZM might be a good shout to spend the time helping you to find a compromise you are happy with.
i have and would recommend CoG based on my experience but it suited my needs at the time but if i wanted a yearly check then i could not justify taking it to a guru and would rather let the indie servicing my car take care of it and dial it into factory spec or whatever i wanted
MrCooke said:
If you just want factory settings then anywhere with the right machine can do it.
I thought this was true as well. The main maker of the fancy laser alignment machines is a company called Hunter. I looked on their site and found a place near me that had the right machine with all the bells and whistles, contacted them and booked the car in. I knew what setings I wanted and gave them all the info.Well, they did a horriffic job. When I collected the car they gave me a good looking printout with all the measurements looking about right to within 10 minutes or so. However when i drove the car it was crap. I don't know if they set their machine incorrectly or mismounted the sensors, but perhaps somewhat obviously, some places that have the £x,000's of machinery have no clue what to do with it.
Anyway, I also tried a few other places too, but was never 100% satisfied. Then I went to Chris and I would not only now never go amywhere else, but every car i ever own will now go to him for setup within the first few months of me getting it. He is that good.
I have no affiliation to CG, I am just a satisfied customer. I agree that what Chris does is not a black art and there are of course other people that can do it.
When I got my 996t I wasn't completely happy with the way it handled so I took it to a garage recommended by my local Porsche indie. I paid £80 for a geo setup to factory settings. It was done on a Beissbarth machine (similar to one used at CG). I wasn't happy with the end result so booked it in with CG.
The level of service received at CG was in a different league. Where as at the previous place I wasn't allowed in the workshop with CG this was actively encouraged. First the car was test driven and a diagnosis of likely faults made. Secondly it underwent a very thorough inspection on the ramp and a number of worn parts were identified. The benefits of different replacement parts were discussed (OEM vs after market) and a decision was made based on my requirements. I then went for lunch while the parts were fitted. When I returned the car was loaded with weight and levelled before the geo was dialled in. Once again my requirements were discussed and an appropriate geo setup selected. The car was then taken on another test drive, this time with me driving. We repeated some of the exercises from the initial test drive to look at how things had been improved.
Work started at 08:30 and finished at 20:30. Chris charged £300 + VAT for the test drives, inspection and geo. The cost of the parts and an hourly rate for fitting was in additon. CG is extremely reasonably priced for the level of service you receive. Nothing was too much trouble and I found the whole experience very educational. It is very much tailored to the customers requirements and that is what makes it different. I even got a bit of driving tuition thrown on the second test drive. Of course there are other outfits (probably motorsport oriented) that can do what Chris does.
If I did want to use someone else I now have the knowledge to ask the right questions which will enable me to evaluate whether the service being offered meets my requirements and offers value for money.
When I got my 996t I wasn't completely happy with the way it handled so I took it to a garage recommended by my local Porsche indie. I paid £80 for a geo setup to factory settings. It was done on a Beissbarth machine (similar to one used at CG). I wasn't happy with the end result so booked it in with CG.
The level of service received at CG was in a different league. Where as at the previous place I wasn't allowed in the workshop with CG this was actively encouraged. First the car was test driven and a diagnosis of likely faults made. Secondly it underwent a very thorough inspection on the ramp and a number of worn parts were identified. The benefits of different replacement parts were discussed (OEM vs after market) and a decision was made based on my requirements. I then went for lunch while the parts were fitted. When I returned the car was loaded with weight and levelled before the geo was dialled in. Once again my requirements were discussed and an appropriate geo setup selected. The car was then taken on another test drive, this time with me driving. We repeated some of the exercises from the initial test drive to look at how things had been improved.
Work started at 08:30 and finished at 20:30. Chris charged £300 + VAT for the test drives, inspection and geo. The cost of the parts and an hourly rate for fitting was in additon. CG is extremely reasonably priced for the level of service you receive. Nothing was too much trouble and I found the whole experience very educational. It is very much tailored to the customers requirements and that is what makes it different. I even got a bit of driving tuition thrown on the second test drive. Of course there are other outfits (probably motorsport oriented) that can do what Chris does.
If I did want to use someone else I now have the knowledge to ask the right questions which will enable me to evaluate whether the service being offered meets my requirements and offers value for money.
If you want "factory settings" you might as well take it to an OPC. Factory settings makes no allowance for worn suspension components.
BTW, regards the Hunter system (which I think costs something like £40k) - many race teams, some running in far higher competitions that I, do their geometry with two long poles, two bits of fishing line and a steel rule.
BTW, regards the Hunter system (which I think costs something like £40k) - many race teams, some running in far higher competitions that I, do their geometry with two long poles, two bits of fishing line and a steel rule.
spyderman8 said:
If you want "factory settings" you might as well take it to an OPC. Factory settings makes no allowance for worn suspension components.
BTW, regards the Hunter system (which I think costs something like £40k) - many race teams, some running in far higher competitions that I, do their geometry with two long poles, two bits of fishing line and a steel rule.
When you have access & the time to a workshop environment equipped with the industry standard stuff like Hunter, this is the best..BTW, regards the Hunter system (which I think costs something like £40k) - many race teams, some running in far higher competitions that I, do their geometry with two long poles, two bits of fishing line and a steel rule.
If your trackside and need to get busy QuickTime and ready to race then a diy string kit all the way..
Our team has a Factory works stringline kit for racedays on our 911's, TVR's, Lotus & Ferarri.
On my GT3 i use Mike @ Sportsandclassic with his complete fully fresh Hunter setup.. he is happy to set the car to my settings, then test drive and tweek further all in one afternoon for a very reasonable rate.. he helps my laptimes tumble!!
Ade
spyderman8 said:
If you want "factory settings" you might as well take it to an OPC.......
Absolutely NO, NO and NO!After having a new steering rack fitted a year or so ago, my Gen-2 '7S was realigned by the local OPC. They provided me with the Hunter printout that 'proved' the car was absolutely perfect - smack in the middle of the factory recommended settings in every direction. Except the handling and feel were utter cr*p.
Back to Chris at CG (who had done a magnificent job with Bilstein coilovers, lowering, cornerweighting, custom geo, etc. on my previous car) to find out what was going on. Once properly connected to all CG's kit, it was apparent that the settings the OPC printout said were on the car had NOTHING to do with the way the wheels were really pointing. The OPC had made a total bol*ocks of the whole setup.
2 hours later at CG and my car handled as it should again. The wheels were all pointing in directions that helped it go in a straight line by default and go round corners properly when asked! Chris then went on to further tweak the geo to improve turn-in over standard and to bring a little life to the (otherwise dead on a 997S) rear of the car. Both ends felt as if they were working together (rather than against one another) and the big grin factor was back in spades.
The point here is that it doesn't matter if you have £40 worth of poles, fishing line and ruler or £40,000 of Hunter aligner, you won't get anywhere close unless you know what you're doing. The OPC techs simply don't. Period. Chris does, better than anyone else I've encountered so far.
Ian
PS and as an aside, the poles, fishing line (or string) and ruler method can get you so close to a perfect alignment it's frightening. The extra £40k's worth of kit only nets you the last couple of %.
Hi,
As said before if you can use the equipment and know what to set the car up for then it is not rocket science... I just think that there are so many people doing a really bad job it does not take long to get a good name in this field.
We have geared up heavily in this field with in the last 12 months with Hunter equipment and electronic corner weight equipment as we felt it was an area we needed to be into as most of the jobs we were doing involved a wheel alignment as part of the repair. We used to sub contract it out but now do it all in house.
And with my GT3 I wanted to be able to experiment with different setups to actually see what difference it made on road and track.
A typical Hunter setup can cost you as little as £20K or £80K depends on what level of equipment you want.
We have set loads of GT cars up now on this new system and it is very accurate. I still check the odd one with a digital camber gauge and tracking irons
it is always right.
You need to be careful when setting up the car as in when you clamp the clamps and sensor heads on that care is taken as the readings are critical to it being flush fitted on the wheel surface. I think this is where a lot of places don't take the required care.
We have set up Porsche cars that have been to these so called specialist centre's and only wish I could post my findings on here as one very well known one in particular is damn dangerous and knows a lot of theory but practical wise is useless.
We have seen GT cars and 993 cars setup and bits fallen off, set back wrong on front wheels, anti roll bar pick up mounts turning on dampers as no lock rings installed. Spring perches cut off GT2 dampers and then reused.... WHY the perches are available from Bilstein for around £18 each..! I could go on and on....
There are plenty of places that can easily carry out this type of work in the U.K
Unit 11 actually still use a digital camber gauge and string line kit. I have checked this and it is bang on !
Mike
As said before if you can use the equipment and know what to set the car up for then it is not rocket science... I just think that there are so many people doing a really bad job it does not take long to get a good name in this field.
We have geared up heavily in this field with in the last 12 months with Hunter equipment and electronic corner weight equipment as we felt it was an area we needed to be into as most of the jobs we were doing involved a wheel alignment as part of the repair. We used to sub contract it out but now do it all in house.
And with my GT3 I wanted to be able to experiment with different setups to actually see what difference it made on road and track.
A typical Hunter setup can cost you as little as £20K or £80K depends on what level of equipment you want.
We have set loads of GT cars up now on this new system and it is very accurate. I still check the odd one with a digital camber gauge and tracking irons
it is always right. You need to be careful when setting up the car as in when you clamp the clamps and sensor heads on that care is taken as the readings are critical to it being flush fitted on the wheel surface. I think this is where a lot of places don't take the required care.
We have set up Porsche cars that have been to these so called specialist centre's and only wish I could post my findings on here as one very well known one in particular is damn dangerous and knows a lot of theory but practical wise is useless.
We have seen GT cars and 993 cars setup and bits fallen off, set back wrong on front wheels, anti roll bar pick up mounts turning on dampers as no lock rings installed. Spring perches cut off GT2 dampers and then reused.... WHY the perches are available from Bilstein for around £18 each..! I could go on and on....
There are plenty of places that can easily carry out this type of work in the U.K
- Unit 11
- Nineexcellance
- Parr
- JZM
- JHM
- Tech 9
- Ninemeister
Unit 11 actually still use a digital camber gauge and string line kit. I have checked this and it is bang on !
Mike
I used my specialist, Russell of RSR Engineering, to get my Geo sorted out and have to say he did a super job. I got no print outs or anything as technical as that but I did get a car that was no longer dead at the straight ahead and also felt a lot more planted on fast corners.
Judging by the number of rare and expensive 911's waiting to be done I guess he must be well thought of.
Judging by the number of rare and expensive 911's waiting to be done I guess he must be well thought of.
We all want the very best alignment we can possibly get, but a few factors
come in for the vast majority of us like price and distance.
No doubt the best priced or best job done might be miles & miles away
not unless your very lucky and have someone on your doorstep who fits the bill.
I use GT Marques in High Wycombe far enough at nearly 50 miles and a reasonable priced very good job.
Just another to add to the above already mentioned.
come in for the vast majority of us like price and distance.
No doubt the best priced or best job done might be miles & miles away
not unless your very lucky and have someone on your doorstep who fits the bill.
I use GT Marques in High Wycombe far enough at nearly 50 miles and a reasonable priced very good job.
Just another to add to the above already mentioned.
Just wanted to thank everyone for some excellent feedback and views, its been very useful reading this.
I have emailed Chris to see his availability and cost althogh if that doesn't work out it may be a good opportunity to get in touch with some of the other reccomendations and see what they say.
I have emailed Chris to see his availability and cost althogh if that doesn't work out it may be a good opportunity to get in touch with some of the other reccomendations and see what they say.
Even if somewhere has the Hunter machine, things can still go wrong if the person making the adjustment is a mong and/or mechanically unsympathetic.
In any business there will always be the customer where something or everything seems to go wrong. So best to make your own calculated judgement on where to go.
In any business there will always be the customer where something or everything seems to go wrong. So best to make your own calculated judgement on where to go.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff