21799 €uro
Discussion
21799 €uro - That's how much average profit, before tax, my local (German) paper says Porsche make per car.
Leaving to 1 side any comments on the nature of libel law in Germany for the moment & the fact that Porsche are quoted as saying that the figure includes some "special/unusual effects" (sondereffekte), what if it were true?
Would explain perhaps how such a small company could have so much cash lying about that it could buy it's way into VW/Audi.
Might also suggest that Porsche customers were paying way over the odds for their cars.
Of course these "special/unusual effects" may actually be the profits from Porsche's consultancy business that have wrongly been included in the study but if that's true, why not just say so?
For comparison the same study gives:-
BMW - 2475 €uro/car av.
Toyota - 1684 €uro/car av.
Audi - 1580 €uro/car av.
DaimlerChrysler - 708 €uro/car av.
VW - 332 €uro/car av.
Thoughts?
Leaving to 1 side any comments on the nature of libel law in Germany for the moment & the fact that Porsche are quoted as saying that the figure includes some "special/unusual effects" (sondereffekte), what if it were true?
Would explain perhaps how such a small company could have so much cash lying about that it could buy it's way into VW/Audi.
Might also suggest that Porsche customers were paying way over the odds for their cars.
Of course these "special/unusual effects" may actually be the profits from Porsche's consultancy business that have wrongly been included in the study but if that's true, why not just say so?
For comparison the same study gives:-
BMW - 2475 €uro/car av.
Toyota - 1684 €uro/car av.
Audi - 1580 €uro/car av.
DaimlerChrysler - 708 €uro/car av.
VW - 332 €uro/car av.
Thoughts?
I would suggest that it is likely Ferrari make even more per unit.
Porsches are, in real terms, cheaper than they've ever been. But all the same - superior technology goes into a Porsche. I doubt very much that the raw materials to build a Porsche cost that much more than to build a decent Ford. Ford have volume. Porsche have margins.
Porsches are, in real terms, cheaper than they've ever been. But all the same - superior technology goes into a Porsche. I doubt very much that the raw materials to build a Porsche cost that much more than to build a decent Ford. Ford have volume. Porsche have margins.
german tony said:
Yeah but it's 9 times what BMW make...
So? Don't buy one then. Do you disapprove of a Company pricing its products at what its market will bear? Everyone else does it. Do you think BMW wouldn't if they could?
Manufacturers like Porsche trade off volume of sales for a higher unit price. Ford (etc) trade off their lower unit price for significantly more volume. Supply and demand. Ford (ought), though making less per unit, be raking in far more cash than Porsche...
ewenm said:
They don't appear to have a problem selling them so good luck to them. Does Porsche have an engineering consultancy arm too? If they do, I bet the article hasn't removed any of those profits before working out the profit per car.
Edited by ewenm on Tuesday 23 January 16:17
They made >€100m from some sort of currency hedge & will also have received income from their VAG share holdings.
But is it relevant to the products? Is the BMW Z4M any better or worse than a Cayman S because BMW make less money on it than Porsche?
SS7
The point is that BMW are the 2nd best in the survey in terms of profit.
& I'm NOT objecting to profit.
Nor am I objecting to what Porsche owners pay, I'm not 1 & am unlikely to be 1 as doing so would give my customers entirely the wrong idea.
Am merely pointing to this as being a very suspect figure, hell, that's what Porsche themselves say it is.
As I believe I mentioned in the original post...
& I'm NOT objecting to profit.
Nor am I objecting to what Porsche owners pay, I'm not 1 & am unlikely to be 1 as doing so would give my customers entirely the wrong idea.
Am merely pointing to this as being a very suspect figure, hell, that's what Porsche themselves say it is.
As I believe I mentioned in the original post...
Even more impressive really are the residuals Porsches command if they do make a large profit on their cars to start with.
I wonder if certain models are biased alot though, though I assume it can't go too far but something like a Boxster probably makes a little less than that, with maybe the Cayenne's making alot more?
Dave
I wonder if certain models are biased alot though, though I assume it can't go too far but something like a Boxster probably makes a little less than that, with maybe the Cayenne's making alot more?
Dave
Be interesting to see where their calculations come from.
How is R&D, Racing, Promotion, Testing, etc worked into that number?
Is it straight from a balance sheet for a particular period? Is that period immediately after the introduction of the 997, when the development budget has concluded?
The old saying, statistics and facts are not the same thing, springs to mind.
How is R&D, Racing, Promotion, Testing, etc worked into that number?
Is it straight from a balance sheet for a particular period? Is that period immediately after the introduction of the 997, when the development budget has concluded?
The old saying, statistics and facts are not the same thing, springs to mind.
german tony said:
The point is that BMW are the 2nd best in the survey in terms of profit.
& I'm NOT objecting to profit.
Nor am I objecting to what Porsche owners pay, I'm not 1 & am unlikely to be 1 as doing so would give my customers entirely the wrong idea.
Am merely pointing to this as being a very suspect figure, hell, that's what Porsche themselves say it is.
As I believe I mentioned in the original post...
& I'm NOT objecting to profit.
Nor am I objecting to what Porsche owners pay, I'm not 1 & am unlikely to be 1 as doing so would give my customers entirely the wrong idea.
Am merely pointing to this as being a very suspect figure, hell, that's what Porsche themselves say it is.
As I believe I mentioned in the original post...
So is your point "Wow look at how much more Porsche earn per car"? If so, then wow indeed.
Do you have an opinion on whether it's a good or bad thing? I think it's a good thing.
Don said:
I would suggest that it is likely Ferrari make even more per unit.
I would suggest that is unlikely. Ferrari is now better run than it ever has been, but they don't have Porsche's economies of scale. They make far more bespoke parts and I simply cannot imagine that they are as efficiently managed. I read somewhere that in the US, Toyota has a $1500/car "head start" over both GM & Ford due to their crippling healthcare and pension costs.
As for Porsche I wonder whether some of the development costs for the Cayenne were written off to VW? 40% of all Porsches made are Cayennes (40k Cayenne, 32k 911, 21k Boxster & 5k Cayman) which would account for a lot of this profit.
As for Porsche I wonder whether some of the development costs for the Cayenne were written off to VW? 40% of all Porsches made are Cayennes (40k Cayenne, 32k 911, 21k Boxster & 5k Cayman) which would account for a lot of this profit.
german tony said:
21799 €uro - That's how much average profit, before tax, my local (German) paper says Porsche make per car.
Leaving to 1 side any comments on the nature of libel law in Germany for the moment & the fact that Porsche are quoted as saying that the figure includes some "special/unusual effects" (sondereffekte), what if it were true?
Would explain perhaps how such a small company could have so much cash lying about that it could buy it's way into VW/Audi.
Might also suggest that Porsche customers were paying way over the odds for their cars.
Of course these "special/unusual effects" may actually be the profits from Porsche's consultancy business that have wrongly been included in the study but if that's true, why not just say so?
For comparison the same study gives:-
BMW - 2475 €uro/car av.
Toyota - 1684 €uro/car av.
Audi - 1580 €uro/car av.
DaimlerChrysler - 708 €uro/car av.
VW - 332 €uro/car av.
Thoughts?
Leaving to 1 side any comments on the nature of libel law in Germany for the moment & the fact that Porsche are quoted as saying that the figure includes some "special/unusual effects" (sondereffekte), what if it were true?
Would explain perhaps how such a small company could have so much cash lying about that it could buy it's way into VW/Audi.
Might also suggest that Porsche customers were paying way over the odds for their cars.
Of course these "special/unusual effects" may actually be the profits from Porsche's consultancy business that have wrongly been included in the study but if that's true, why not just say so?
For comparison the same study gives:-
BMW - 2475 €uro/car av.
Toyota - 1684 €uro/car av.
Audi - 1580 €uro/car av.
DaimlerChrysler - 708 €uro/car av.
VW - 332 €uro/car av.
Thoughts?
Sondereffekte are unique positions in the calculation, such as buying or selling a company. Porsche's consulting income are part of the regular positions, so are part of the profit per car if your number is based on the AG's results.
Zod said:
Don said:
I would suggest that it is likely Ferrari make even more per unit.
I would suggest that is unlikely. Ferrari is now better run than it ever has been, but they don't have Porsche's economies of scale. They make far more bespoke parts and I simply cannot imagine that they are as efficiently managed. Ferrari earn more on merchandising than on cars, so that may well be possible.
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