ROVER SD1 TURBO
Discussion
I am currently planning to insert a V8 janspeed turbo rover engine into my 2600 SD1 ( single rotomaster turbo into carb ) and i would appreciate any contributions from any member with experience with the turbocharged V8 engine. 230 hp should be possible with the potential for far more! thank you and a happy new year!...
Edited by FM on Wednesday 9th June 19:18
Hi, I've often thought about forced induction for my 2600, there are a few problems with the turbo route and the engine as a whole.
Firstly I'm assuming you'll be using a new exhaust manifold as, in my opinion, the old one ends too close to the bulkhead to fit a turbo in. The problem is its quite a unique setup as it uses no gasket to seal between head and manifold, this could be difficult to replicate.
You may also get problems with fuel vapourisation as most turbo'ed carb engines do.
Also although the 2600 engine has plenty of potential (they had to de-tune it during development as it was matching the V8 carb engine for power output) it only has 4 main bearings not the typical 7, so the bottom end isnt as strong as is could be, also there's the well known head problems if hte lubrication system isnt in tip top condition.
In my opinion, at the end of the day the only benefits of a blown 6cyl over the V8 route is the novelty value. However one gent to speak to is BoostedLS1, contact him via his member profile, who has many years of experience turbo'ing engines.
Regards
Iain
edit: Just re-read your post are you planning on fitting just the turbo to the car or the whole V8 engine and turbo?
>> Edited by chassis 33 on Thursday 29th December 19:07
Firstly I'm assuming you'll be using a new exhaust manifold as, in my opinion, the old one ends too close to the bulkhead to fit a turbo in. The problem is its quite a unique setup as it uses no gasket to seal between head and manifold, this could be difficult to replicate.
You may also get problems with fuel vapourisation as most turbo'ed carb engines do.
Also although the 2600 engine has plenty of potential (they had to de-tune it during development as it was matching the V8 carb engine for power output) it only has 4 main bearings not the typical 7, so the bottom end isnt as strong as is could be, also there's the well known head problems if hte lubrication system isnt in tip top condition.
In my opinion, at the end of the day the only benefits of a blown 6cyl over the V8 route is the novelty value. However one gent to speak to is BoostedLS1, contact him via his member profile, who has many years of experience turbo'ing engines.
Regards
Iain
edit: Just re-read your post are you planning on fitting just the turbo to the car or the whole V8 engine and turbo?
>> Edited by chassis 33 on Thursday 29th December 19:07
I came across a rover V8 engine with blower, carb, dizzy, manifolds, intercooler and all hoses with reduced compression ( no mention as to how this was achieved ). I have a lhd 3500 from Oman which runs a low compression 3500 V8 in the low eights. It may be easier to fit to this to test which would avoid a engine change.
I think i will drop the whole V8 engine and turbo etc into my 2600 as it has been overheated once to often due to a missing fan. My main concern will be sorting the oil delivery system into the blower so that it does not self destruct upon starting and finding a revised timing setup. The hardest thing will be rolling up my sleeves and gettin started...Got some lovely magnesium minilight 16inch split rims yesterday running slicks...just the job..
I reckon that a couple of BMW Cooper S superchargers would probably be the ticket, whack a couple of decompression spacers between the heads and block and then give yourself about 10PSI boost, that should be enough to wreck a few gearboxes, you'd be able to retain some nice ex-manifolds as well. You could bolt some nice K&N air filters to the blowers (the intake "rectangle"
and then blow through the existing twin SU setup, making those carbs boost sensitive/proof would not be the trickiest thing to do, IIRC, you rebuild them and put the spindle seals on the wrong way around. Hence the stuff doesn't get out.
It would go like buggery!
BMW blowers should set you back about £240 for 2 with about 5 miles use on them. That is cheap! You could probably belt them up for another £200 and it would all be possible for under £1K, assuming you'd do your own fab work.
Not sure about blower friendly cams or valve sizes but you'd probably get away with stock items. I'm sure you would probably get IRO 450lb/ft which would probably either effect the earths orbit or cause some serious drivetrain damage/tyre smoke!
Consider it. There is a guy who got 185hp out of a mini (1330cc engine) and wait for it 195lb/ft which I believe is equivalent to a N/A 3.9L RV8. Gearbox's don't last long though!
and then blow through the existing twin SU setup, making those carbs boost sensitive/proof would not be the trickiest thing to do, IIRC, you rebuild them and put the spindle seals on the wrong way around. Hence the stuff doesn't get out. It would go like buggery!
BMW blowers should set you back about £240 for 2 with about 5 miles use on them. That is cheap! You could probably belt them up for another £200 and it would all be possible for under £1K, assuming you'd do your own fab work.
Not sure about blower friendly cams or valve sizes but you'd probably get away with stock items. I'm sure you would probably get IRO 450lb/ft which would probably either effect the earths orbit or cause some serious drivetrain damage/tyre smoke!
Consider it. There is a guy who got 185hp out of a mini (1330cc engine) and wait for it 195lb/ft which I believe is equivalent to a N/A 3.9L RV8. Gearbox's don't last long though!
Boosted Ls1 said:
Decompression plates ruin the squish effect plus will raise the heads. Sooo, the inlet manifold won't fit. Then you will need a buick 300 manifold and so it goes on.
A single turbo will make 10 psi easily enough.
Boosted.
Agree completely. Decomp plates are the bodgers method of doing it.
In any case the CR dosent really need to be lowered unless youre running silly boost levels and no intercooling.
You should be able to get away with approx 7 psi and no intercooler all day long on the standard cr.....as long as you get the timing right.
I disagree, if you have the bores in your decompression plates matched to the chamber and piston dish, you lose little squish. It is in effect like having a larger chamber.
By using something like megajolt, you can optimise what is there anyway over a standard dizzy, get it set up on a RR and get loads of power. I'd look at doing this for big gains rather than worrying about micro-gains from any squish effect. If you're going to bowl out your chambers and machine your pistons, get deep dished expensive ones, etc. You'll probably lose quite a bit from your optimum chamber shape, unless the casting is so thick that you can have a lot of room for keeping it roughly similar.
One thing I do know about Leyland engines is that often they use shorter compression height pistons for the LC models, which are shocking for squish anyway, also it is quite rare for the pistons to come right to the tops of the bores, unless someone decked it first. I doubt very much that any 70's 80's engine is built anywhere near the blueprint, so unless this is achieved, any method of power upping is going to fall short of the potential.
As for the inlet manifold, fair point. The existing one is probably shocking anyway, probably a better idea to make one of those as well!
My attitude is very much based along the lines of in for a penny, in for a pound. The money you spend actually getting a blower/turbo in place is a lot more than you spend making it hold 15 PSI rather than 8. Since the CP cranked RV8 is naturally a slogger not a revver, I reckon a PD Blower is the best way to go to get the most area under your power curve. Plus, if you used BINI blowers, you could use the intercoolers as well, since we are now building a new inlet manifold!
>> Edited by love machine on Sunday 1st January 13:51
By using something like megajolt, you can optimise what is there anyway over a standard dizzy, get it set up on a RR and get loads of power. I'd look at doing this for big gains rather than worrying about micro-gains from any squish effect. If you're going to bowl out your chambers and machine your pistons, get deep dished expensive ones, etc. You'll probably lose quite a bit from your optimum chamber shape, unless the casting is so thick that you can have a lot of room for keeping it roughly similar.
One thing I do know about Leyland engines is that often they use shorter compression height pistons for the LC models, which are shocking for squish anyway, also it is quite rare for the pistons to come right to the tops of the bores, unless someone decked it first. I doubt very much that any 70's 80's engine is built anywhere near the blueprint, so unless this is achieved, any method of power upping is going to fall short of the potential.
As for the inlet manifold, fair point. The existing one is probably shocking anyway, probably a better idea to make one of those as well!
My attitude is very much based along the lines of in for a penny, in for a pound. The money you spend actually getting a blower/turbo in place is a lot more than you spend making it hold 15 PSI rather than 8. Since the CP cranked RV8 is naturally a slogger not a revver, I reckon a PD Blower is the best way to go to get the most area under your power curve. Plus, if you used BINI blowers, you could use the intercoolers as well, since we are now building a new inlet manifold!
>> Edited by love machine on Sunday 1st January 13:51
I agree with delta. Leave the Compression alone if you can manage your fuel and spark settings effectivley. Dont turn your engine into some low compression dog.
I'm running 6-7psi on a stock 350 chevy with around 9.25cr. Phil Ringwood (www.replica-cobra.co.uk/) ran 9psi on his 9.75CR stock rover - although I think that's pushing the envelope a tad though - both of us have mappable injection which makes such setups easier and safer.
>> Edited by eliot on Sunday 1st January 13:55
I'm running 6-7psi on a stock 350 chevy with around 9.25cr. Phil Ringwood (www.replica-cobra.co.uk/) ran 9psi on his 9.75CR stock rover - although I think that's pushing the envelope a tad though - both of us have mappable injection which makes such setups easier and safer.
>> Edited by eliot on Sunday 1st January 13:55
love machine said:
I disagree, if you have the bores in your decompression plates matched to the chamber and piston dish, you lose little squish. It is in effect like having a larger chamber.
One thing I do know about Leyland engines is that often they use shorter compression height pistons for the LC models, which are shocking for squish anyway, also it is quite rare for the pistons to come right to the tops of the bores, unless someone decked it first. I doubt very much that any 70's 80's engine is built anywhere near the blueprint, so unless this is achieved, any method of power upping is going to fall short of the potential.
>> Edited by love machine on Sunday 1st January 13:51
Interesting points. I agree Rovers usually have a fairly poor, large squish depth so fitting an extra gasket for the decking plate will truly dispose of the squish which is just as important on a turbo engine especially when off boost if the c/r's been lowered. The idea of making the decking plate match the head is quite trick but the extra gasket is what screws it up imo. As for rover pistons, I think the compression height is the same but the bowls vary as do some head chamber volumes.
If I was building a stock rv8 for boost I'd measure the squish depth and probably fit the thinnest gasket I could find to get it under .060". The change in compressionn wouldn't bother me because of the gains I'd make with more efficient combustion.
Boosted.
Make your own gaskets! 
and make them thin!
I agree for a turbo engine, unless you want a sort of N/A race feel, keep the CR high. That's why fixed volume blowers/compressors are the way to go. I suppose the underbonnet space is an issue. It sounds about right 9.4:1 usually can hack about 8psi w/o intercooling on 98 octane, without backing the ignition off ridiculously. My current car has a short stroke engine and is an absolute slut to drive, you have to thrash it and dump the clutch to even pull out of a junction.
The mini is currently running a n/a 1400 engine and I was going to put a lumpy cam in it but won't due to the pseudo-short stroke effect. Time to rebuild the blower engine as the oil pump shat itself when the warning light was blown It made quite a mess of everything. The block got so hot that it was evaporating the oil which ran out (thinned) from the rocker cover. At least I have a nice stress relieved block to work on now.
One of the problems with a decompression plate is that it isn't cooled adequately and the resulting thermal gradients could cause stress on the gaskets, hence making them out of some thin copper foil. I'm not sure about gasket science but mine seemed to work on my old Morris, having said I used to torque them right down bigtime. I'm not a big believer in alloy heads on an iron engine but alloy and alloy would probably be ok, having said, an uncooled plate of steel could upset things a bit. I seriously wonder about using colloidal copper in a very volatile solvent to coat the surfaces minimally and then bolt up tight. Assuming the block and head are true, it sounds like a great idea! Plus, colloidal copper would "give" slightly to shear forces on cooling/heating.
I agree, this is all sounding like too much buggering about. Do run 15 PSI on a normal engine, you'll just have to run avgas S
and make them thin! I agree for a turbo engine, unless you want a sort of N/A race feel, keep the CR high. That's why fixed volume blowers/compressors are the way to go. I suppose the underbonnet space is an issue. It sounds about right 9.4:1 usually can hack about 8psi w/o intercooling on 98 octane, without backing the ignition off ridiculously. My current car has a short stroke engine and is an absolute slut to drive, you have to thrash it and dump the clutch to even pull out of a junction.
The mini is currently running a n/a 1400 engine and I was going to put a lumpy cam in it but won't due to the pseudo-short stroke effect. Time to rebuild the blower engine as the oil pump shat itself when the warning light was blown It made quite a mess of everything. The block got so hot that it was evaporating the oil which ran out (thinned) from the rocker cover. At least I have a nice stress relieved block to work on now. One of the problems with a decompression plate is that it isn't cooled adequately and the resulting thermal gradients could cause stress on the gaskets, hence making them out of some thin copper foil. I'm not sure about gasket science but mine seemed to work on my old Morris, having said I used to torque them right down bigtime. I'm not a big believer in alloy heads on an iron engine but alloy and alloy would probably be ok, having said, an uncooled plate of steel could upset things a bit. I seriously wonder about using colloidal copper in a very volatile solvent to coat the surfaces minimally and then bolt up tight. Assuming the block and head are true, it sounds like a great idea! Plus, colloidal copper would "give" slightly to shear forces on cooling/heating.
I agree, this is all sounding like too much buggering about. Do run 15 PSI on a normal engine, you'll just have to run avgas
Sthanks guys. I have though thought about taking my time and sourcing another turbo manifold ( easy enough ) and another turbo ( trickier as rotomaster T04 are quite rare and would have to be matched in size, boost etc ), doing my own pipework for the 2-1 air feed into the plenum chamber. Again I would have to look at rejetting the carb (weber), ignition upgrades etc all of which involve more time and money. Since the engine and turbo etc only cost 240 quid i will just bang it in and get it to run. I can look at getting the blower to deliver more boost after that. I can only justify spending so much as, after £1k or so , i would just buy a nice vitesse. thank u all.
I didn`t know t3 internals fit...thanks
It is very easy to get carried away...which i don`t have the money to pursue...twin turbos mean big boost, not good for carbs or my probably stock pistons or my tiny budget.
Heres some SD1`s that keep me enthused...
>> Edited by francis mcquaid on Sunday 1st January 21:45
>> Edited by francis mcquaid on Sunday 1st January 21:45
>> Edited by francis mcquaid on Sunday 1st January 22:24
It is very easy to get carried away...which i don`t have the money to pursue...twin turbos mean big boost, not good for carbs or my probably stock pistons or my tiny budget.
Heres some SD1`s that keep me enthused...
>> Edited by francis mcquaid on Sunday 1st January 21:45
>> Edited by francis mcquaid on Sunday 1st January 21:45
>> Edited by francis mcquaid on Sunday 1st January 22:24
Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff