Best , Easiest & Cheapest way to 300bhp+???
Discussion
I've come into some unexpected reddies and fancy trying to get the Griff up to and hopefully over the 300bhp mark but as the title says, what's the best way to COST EFFECTIVELY do it?
My pockets aren't massively bulging and I can't stretch to four figures here so that gives you some idea of my budget. The Griff has been measureed at putting out 285bhp and 330lbs/ft on Austec's rolling road which although is good, I'd like to try and get it over the magic 300bhp mark.
My first thoughts are to finally get round to fitting an ACT Silicon hose from air filter to plenum but what can I do after that without breaking the bank? It's a totally standard 95N reg car if it matters and I'm not massively bothered about track days and stuff.
Any ideas??
Cheers - Chris
>>> Edited by Painey on Wednesday 4th August 14:57
My pockets aren't massively bulging and I can't stretch to four figures here so that gives you some idea of my budget. The Griff has been measureed at putting out 285bhp and 330lbs/ft on Austec's rolling road which although is good, I'd like to try and get it over the magic 300bhp mark.
My first thoughts are to finally get round to fitting an ACT Silicon hose from air filter to plenum but what can I do after that without breaking the bank? It's a totally standard 95N reg car if it matters and I'm not massively bothered about track days and stuff.
Any ideas??
Cheers - Chris
>>> Edited by Painey on Wednesday 4th August 14:57
Painey said:
I've come into some unexpected reddies and fancy trying to get the Griff up to and hopefully over the 300bhp mark but as the title says, what's the best way to COST EFFECTIVELY do it?
I am sure it will get a lot of negative opinion but...
you asked cost effective - NOS. £1500 will see you getting over 300bhp.
ok, so its more difficult to insure (as will be the case with any modified car) and not legal if you want to enter into competitive motorsport. But if you are just looking for cost effective performance in a straight line (ie bhp rather than investing in nitrons/driver training bla bla) then its got to be the cheapest way of achieving it
Here we go again ,
a 500 HC serpintine engine puts out very close to the 340hp stated , if your engine doesn't then there is something basically wrong with it.
Note I say the engine puts out 340 bhp. A rolling road measures at the rear wheels so read up on Indicated power as against brake horse power. You can loose up to 12% of the engines power through the power train, gearbox and diff being the worst offenders , slightly binding brakes drive shafts prop shaft etc.
If you are intent on wasting a lot of money then go for the engine breathing kits from the plenumn chamber , air meter , silicon hoses , one of the cheapest improvements --- an expensive air filter, or just clean the old one. Of course a sports exhaust helps another 8 IhP there for a mere 1000 pounds
ACT leads new coil and ignition amplifier are a favorite, but if you do all this then you have to go for an upgraded chip in the ECU or it will all have been a waste of time.
By the way if you have one of these tarts Griffs --- A/C and power steering then rip them off 17 ihp for an A/C compressor running flat out , 7 ihp for power steering when you are going around a corner.
Once you have spent/wasted all your money as I did you find as I have and I replaced a cam shaft that you have a totally maniac car that has lost what little user friendliness it had FU** its fast though
regards
Simon
a 500 HC serpintine engine puts out very close to the 340hp stated , if your engine doesn't then there is something basically wrong with it.
Note I say the engine puts out 340 bhp. A rolling road measures at the rear wheels so read up on Indicated power as against brake horse power. You can loose up to 12% of the engines power through the power train, gearbox and diff being the worst offenders , slightly binding brakes drive shafts prop shaft etc.
If you are intent on wasting a lot of money then go for the engine breathing kits from the plenumn chamber , air meter , silicon hoses , one of the cheapest improvements --- an expensive air filter, or just clean the old one. Of course a sports exhaust helps another 8 IhP there for a mere 1000 pounds
ACT leads new coil and ignition amplifier are a favorite, but if you do all this then you have to go for an upgraded chip in the ECU or it will all have been a waste of time.
By the way if you have one of these tarts Griffs --- A/C and power steering then rip them off 17 ihp for an A/C compressor running flat out , 7 ihp for power steering when you are going around a corner.
Once you have spent/wasted all your money as I did you find as I have and I replaced a cam shaft that you have a totally maniac car that has lost what little user friendliness it had FU** its fast though
regards
Simon
I'm well aware of the old "TVR BHP" debate and stuff like that and the figures I quoted earlier were corrected flywheel figures so I'm basically looking for around another 15bhp. As the car only has 35k on the clock I don't really need/or want to have to replace the cam which is out of my budget anyway.
Also, I don't personallly think that trying to find a relatively small power gain as this would make the car radically different to drive, could be wrong of course...
I'm thinking along the lines of new Air Flow meter, Tornado Chip and RR session to set it up but the costs of this worry me for what could be a relatively small gain in power. I mean if it's only likely to get me around 5more bhp then to me that's not worth it as the air temperature can have that much of an effect on its own!
Also, I don't personallly think that trying to find a relatively small power gain as this would make the car radically different to drive, could be wrong of course...
I'm thinking along the lines of new Air Flow meter, Tornado Chip and RR session to set it up but the costs of this worry me for what could be a relatively small gain in power. I mean if it's only likely to get me around 5more bhp then to me that's not worth it as the air temperature can have that much of an effect on its own!
To be honest with 285/330, I not so sure you would get vast improvments.
What was the mixture like at the top end during your RR session
only ask as you may need to upgrade the chip to realise any benefits extra breathing etc would give. Particularly if its, as I suspect, already pretty much maxed out on the standard rover mapping.
It really is a money pit and should only be entered into with open eyes.
First off though I would ditch the standard 500 trumpets, which are so restrictive, and get some 45mm ones in there, go for carbon if you want or just get ali ones slightly cheaper. Did you ask Paul at Austec whilst there, he knows his onions.
Speak to Tim at ACT for a complete picture of where you wnat to go. He is honest and will not sell you something you don't need nor want.
AIMHO.
Harry
What was the mixture like at the top end during your RR session
only ask as you may need to upgrade the chip to realise any benefits extra breathing etc would give. Particularly if its, as I suspect, already pretty much maxed out on the standard rover mapping. It really is a money pit and should only be entered into with open eyes.
First off though I would ditch the standard 500 trumpets, which are so restrictive, and get some 45mm ones in there, go for carbon if you want or just get ali ones slightly cheaper. Did you ask Paul at Austec whilst there, he knows his onions.
Speak to Tim at ACT for a complete picture of where you wnat to go. He is honest and will not sell you something you don't need nor want.
AIMHO.
Harry
Budget roughly £100 per extra bhp, and you will get a rough idea of how far your cash will take you. That is excluding insurance hikes etc and also assuming the changes are small enough to avoid significant knock-on effects on the rest of the car. At the risk of sounding like a broken record (and a hypocrit), would you consider spending the money on driver training instead? Far more fun to do, won't have any adverse impact on reliability or insurance costs, and you can transfer it to any car you drive.
shnozz said:
I am sure it will get a lot of negative opinion but...
you asked cost effective - NOS. £1500 will see you getting over 300bhp.
ok, so its more difficult to insure (as will be the case with any modified car) and not legal if you want to enter into competitive motorsport. But if you are just looking for cost effective performance in a straight line (ie bhp rather than investing in nitrons/driver training bla bla) then its got to be the cheapest way of achieving it
And it's Illegal to use on the road as you cant carry bottles containing compressed gas (Without a license) IIRC
>> Edited by mike s on Wednesday 4th August 18:26
siwes said:Of course this flys in the face of all the advice given by the acknowledged Rover V8 experts who all say that breathing is the main issue. Rich...
If you are intent on wasting a lot of money then go for the engine breathing kits from the plenumn chamber , air meter , silicon hoses , one of the cheapest improvements --- an expensive air filter, or just clean the old one. Of course a sports exhaust helps another 8 IhP there for a mere 1000 pounds
ACT leads new coil and ignition amplifier are a favorite, but if you do all this then you have to go for an upgraded chip in the ECU or it will all have been a waste of time.
Apache, I know you have a fantastic Griff and know wha tyou are doing so dont read this as condesending.
Do you get enough cold air going to that air filter?
It might be an idea to have a coupel of ducts running up from the frotn or maybe even one down from the windscreen end (a high pressure spot apparently).
Do you get enough cold air going to that air filter?
It might be an idea to have a coupel of ducts running up from the frotn or maybe even one down from the windscreen end (a high pressure spot apparently).
Blimey - 285bhp and 330lbs/ft
I'd say you had a good one there .. you could talk to Mark Adams or Austec but my guess is that you will need to start spending some big numbers to achieve much more !
(Like bigger injectors : 600 & twin act plenum 1200 & MA tuning session - 2 ~ 3 K to get much more than you have already).
I'd say you had a good one there .. you could talk to Mark Adams or Austec but my guess is that you will need to start spending some big numbers to achieve much more !
(Like bigger injectors : 600 & twin act plenum 1200 & MA tuning session - 2 ~ 3 K to get much more than you have already).
DustyC said:
Apache, I know you have a fantastic Griff and know wha tyou are doing so dont read this as condesending.
Do you get enough cold air going to that air filter?
It might be an idea to have a coupel of ducts running up from the frotn or maybe even one down from the windscreen end (a high pressure spot apparently).
hey don't pussyfoot mate
now that the airbox and ducting has gone there is big f off hole which brings loads of air in once on the move. A few holes at the back edge of the bonnet to let the warm air out may help but o be honest I don't notice any problem. apart from carb fumes on hot days that is 
and no, there ain't a hole int bonnet, Mrs A would not allow such vandalism
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