Discussion
joust said:
I can only conclude that they had some systems made up by SA which have the 2.5 flanges on the 3.0l systems.
YellowShed
J
In so far as the exhaust that was fitted to my 3L with the moded suspension 'cut and shut' is putting it lightly!!!
Trevor, can't wait to come back from abroad in April to get my hands on it with a shiney new exhaust - I have driven the car for exactly 3 days in the last 6 months...
crb1 said:
Apologies for being a bit late to this thread. Can anyone tell me the benefit of this exhaust (other than having a nice new shiny bit) in addition to the presumed benefit of better exhaust mountings/brackets.
Thanks.
Chris.
I think one of the key problems with the current system is the location of the inner cat.
A catalytic converter needs to be hot in order to work, and as a result, a very hot object is in a place with very little air !
In addition to this the air that does pass though the part of the engine may well end up being fed into the engine, and thus having to be cooled by the intercooler, making the whole thing less efficient.
The exhaust on the M12, and it's manifolds have been a source of complain for many years now. I've lost count of the times I've had to have something done to mine.
Any work to make the situation is a plus as far as I'm concerned and the added torque and bhp is a bonus.
The bottom line is it should make the whole package more reliable.
BTW lookup out for an article on the owners club site on exhausts and intercoolers.
--Jools
yellowshed said:
AMG Merc, chillidog, silversix and V6GTO, you too? YellowShed
Hi Trevor, good work on the exhaust!
I'm at the point where, although my exhaust has only shed it's top mounting bracket 2-3 times in 2 years (which surprises me!) and looks crappy its working fine (for now!).
As there are other replacement systems (eg: Vegantune), I'd like to know more about the benefits and changes first (eg: would the engine map need altering?, lifetime guarantee?, is there any strain placed on the mounting points elsewhere?, what's the factory position on this? and ultimately... what does each system sound like across the rev range?).
amg merc said:
I'd like to know more about the benefits and changes first (eg: would the engine map need altering?, lifetime guarantee?, is there any strain placed on the mounting points elsewhere?, what's the factory position on this? and ultimately... what does each system sound like across the rev range?).
......and what's it like when polished
hunttheshunt said:
I'd like to know more about the benefits and changes first (eg: would the engine map need altering?, lifetime guarantee?, is there any strain placed on the mounting points elsewhere?, what's the factory position on this? and ultimately... what does each system sound like across the rev range?).
......and what's it like when polished
OY (but true!)!
That's the point, stainless won't need much work!
yellowshed said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy, washy and robp - are you interested?
Trevor - definitely interested but probably not in the first wave as my car is still under warranty. I will be taking a look at Mark's car on 19th. As with Washy, I would like to see before/after power readings on an M400 to check that nothing is lost on the performance side. Only time will tell on the reliability front - I'm sure Noble didn't deliberately build in the self-opening manifold bolts and the chocolate exhaust bracket, but they are the weakest design elements on the car by far (they appear to affect the majority, if not every single M12, rather than just the odd car here and there) and if the new system cures these without different glitches, you're onto a winner (despite the initial cost}. On the reliability note, how much development testing had been done with the new system? Or is this going to be a case of excellent design and engineering with the customer doing most of the real world development testing? Has it been used on track, at high temps?
Thanks for the info on weight- 25kg vs 24kg seems remarkable given the different materials used.
All,
Tested the car last night with the M400 spec fuel pump and the cat-replacement pipes. There was a slight power increase, and no fuel pressure drop, and the mixture was just about spot on. That means there is no need for any map changes - something I deliberately wanted to avoid. It's a hardware-only solution and does not affect the mapping. Our principal aim was to improve the exhaust design with a new design that looks good and sounds nice. The power and torque benefits are a bonus - with a downside for 3 and 3R owners that the M400 pump is needed. We will make that part of the kit to those owners, which will include all gaskets, nuts bolts and even the manifold turbo studs which we've found to corrode somewhat!
Again, as the car wasn't truely back-to-back with a before and after, I'm being conservative with the power increase. However, the cat vs replacement pipes is a true back-to-back increase of 10bhp and 10lbft. I must admit I didn't expect the cat-replacement pipes to make that much difference, but it was repeatable (we repeated the runs several times as we didn't believe it ourselves) and it was the same car at the same rollers, with ambient conditions very similar between the tests.
I'll organise some pdf's of the powercurves on Monday, work permitting.
As for an M400, I'm planning on testing on this week. Please bear with us a little longer on that front. I'm trying to keep everyone appraised of the development process as it happens.
YellowShed
Tested the car last night with the M400 spec fuel pump and the cat-replacement pipes. There was a slight power increase, and no fuel pressure drop, and the mixture was just about spot on. That means there is no need for any map changes - something I deliberately wanted to avoid. It's a hardware-only solution and does not affect the mapping. Our principal aim was to improve the exhaust design with a new design that looks good and sounds nice. The power and torque benefits are a bonus - with a downside for 3 and 3R owners that the M400 pump is needed. We will make that part of the kit to those owners, which will include all gaskets, nuts bolts and even the manifold turbo studs which we've found to corrode somewhat!
Again, as the car wasn't truely back-to-back with a before and after, I'm being conservative with the power increase. However, the cat vs replacement pipes is a true back-to-back increase of 10bhp and 10lbft. I must admit I didn't expect the cat-replacement pipes to make that much difference, but it was repeatable (we repeated the runs several times as we didn't believe it ourselves) and it was the same car at the same rollers, with ambient conditions very similar between the tests.
I'll organise some pdf's of the powercurves on Monday, work permitting.
As for an M400, I'm planning on testing on this week. Please bear with us a little longer on that front. I'm trying to keep everyone appraised of the development process as it happens.
YellowShed
yellowshed said:
As for an M400, I'm planning on testing on this week. Please bear with us a little longer on that front. I'm trying to keep everyone appraised of the development process as it happens.
Trevor - many thanks for keeping us so well informed; much appreciated. How difficult/easy will it be to swop replacement pipe for cats which presumable will be needed to get through emissions test during MOTs? Had to do this on my Elise and it was a pain in the butt -even with stainless steel studs and nuts.
Can you also post static noise tests before/after with/without replacement pipes if you have the info? Very important for us trackers. Would be gutted to be thrown off Donny for exceedng v strict noise limit (98dB drive past)
All,
Sorry for the delay. What a week it's been.
Anyway, I have emailed some power curve PDFs to Phil Brett for posting here.
Mark has his car (at last - sorry for the delay!) and I hope he's happy!
We're closer now to having a system that should fit pretty well all cars (we've now tried it on four cars - thanks to all those who've helped us with that!!)
I'll have some decent pics taken of the system on Monday for posting here....
Thanks for your patience...
YellowShed
Sorry for the delay. What a week it's been.
Anyway, I have emailed some power curve PDFs to Phil Brett for posting here.
Mark has his car (at last - sorry for the delay!) and I hope he's happy!
We're closer now to having a system that should fit pretty well all cars (we've now tried it on four cars - thanks to all those who've helped us with that!!)
I'll have some decent pics taken of the system on Monday for posting here....
Thanks for your patience...
YellowShed
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