RE: BMW One Series
Discussion
Do you think they brought Bangle in as a bet?
"How are we going to style the next lot of cars?"
"Doesn't matter, people will still but them for the badge."
"You think?"
"Sure, they don't care what they look like".
"Nah, I don't believe it."
"It's true, we could make them look crap and they'll still buy them by the load."
"You want to put a bet on that".
"Sure, how does 10,000 sound."
"Fine. Bet's on."
"Now we just need to make them look crap. Get Bangle on the phone".
"How are we going to style the next lot of cars?"
"Doesn't matter, people will still but them for the badge."
"You think?"
"Sure, they don't care what they look like".
"Nah, I don't believe it."
"It's true, we could make them look crap and they'll still buy them by the load."
"You want to put a bet on that".
"Sure, how does 10,000 sound."
"Fine. Bet's on."
"Now we just need to make them look crap. Get Bangle on the phone".
Don't you just love forums. All this "no, YOU are missing the point" stuff. Surely the only point is that freedom of speech in a democratic society is a wonderful thing. Enjoy it! All opinions are personal. We are not marketing experts or answerable to BMW's shareholders, so what does it matter who is "right". The market will be the judge. It may well sell by the truckload; doesn't make it good though, or anybody wrong for disliking it.
As for my opinion, isn't it a great shame that an affordable RWD car that can fit the family and comes from a marque with a long history of cars with great dynamics has to look so sh*t?
I drive a Cooper S today and when I grow bored of that - AS IF! - would no doubt be in the market for something like the 1-series. The A3 isn't chuckable enough for me; the Alfa 147 has great character but will lose lots of money and is sold through shocking dealers; The Merc Sports Coupe isn't either of those... BMW could really have wiped the floor here. And they still may well do. But I can't help thinking it will be DESPITE the looks rather than because of them.
BMW represents a lot of things I like. But I have always hated the image of people who drive Beemers and the situation seems to be getting worse. Arrogant has never been what I want my car to say. Arrogant AND ugly... I'll be sticking with the 1's baby half-sister for a while yet.
jamesk said:
I own an E34 5 series and they have got uglier ever since 1996 imo. Crappy cars like this just devalue their truely magnificent cars (M5) to me. Just as the crappy basic 3 series became the wannabe's XR3i and the X5 has become the footballers wives terrible cliche I guess this will find a home.
The bottom of the range BMW should always have been a 6 cylinder car, IMHO, which makes the bottom of the range the 320 or the 520.
But to make money, they made the 316 & 318, which are not good cars.
To drive the point home, they now make a one series.
Sadly, in this market segment, price matters, and lots of folks will not pay the BMW premium.
What's next for BMW ? A version of the Fiat 500 ?
So no one else thinks "Reliant Scimitar" for the naughties then???
Lets see, quick, good looking (yea yea, shout away, I got cotton wool ears) RWD, (which must be a good thing for a cheap car to have now, as in teach the kids...)
so, going against the grain, I LIKE it, different at least which cant be said for anything coming out of Japland.
Shame the styling doesnt work for the bigger series beemers though
Lets see, quick, good looking (yea yea, shout away, I got cotton wool ears) RWD, (which must be a good thing for a cheap car to have now, as in teach the kids...)
so, going against the grain, I LIKE it, different at least which cant be said for anything coming out of Japland.
Shame the styling doesnt work for the bigger series beemers though
dcb said:
[quote=jamesk]
( . . . )
The bottom of the range BMW should always have been a 6 cylinder car, IMHO, which makes the bottom of the range the 320 or the 520.
But to make money, they made the 316 & 318, which are not good cars.
( . . . )
I do not agree. There is always room for a 2002.
BMW made one of the finest 4pots in automotive history. It even made it to F1 . . . The 3 and even the Compact is a nice car that bridges the gap between dull-affordable-would-be and luxurious-expensive-bling. Wether this 1 is the one I sincerely doubt. An estatish Compact my dear? With a nice 2 litre 160 bhp 4 . . .
Fantastic Thread!!!
Bangle gets his reaction. Started with the M Coupe... Ugly breadvan, now become sought after classic.
Fiat Coupe anyone?
I am biased, I've taken the BMW shilling for 8 years and worked at Rover before that, so am qualified to make a number of points.
Firstly, this has no Rover input whatsoever, unlike the MINI, which shares gearboxes, switches and lots of other small items with its Rover cousins. Made in the UK you see, and same parts suppliers. Logical really.
The One has the platform of the next 3 series underneath it. It will sell, and very well, to young professional people as first Co Car or first "proper" car when they get over the college years and debt cars.
Someone else mentioned that it would look good on the Co Car list. Got it in one I think.
Will also sell to existing BMW owners looking to trade down.
BMW needs to remain independent as a manufacturer. Look at what happens when Mercedes merges with Chrysler/ Mitsubishi as an example of what can go wrong when you don't keep your autonomy.
To do this they need to sell more cars. Different cars, not just more 3 Series Deisel saloons. The sad fact is if you stand still in the car industry, you become Rover / Fiat / Ford....
For what it is worth, I am not really a Bangle fan but his designs do grow on you. look at how many people now like the 5/7/Z4 who absolutely panned them when they were announced. the 6 is an absolute belter as well.
This thread just confirms it. Massive reaction.
Bangle gets his reaction. Started with the M Coupe... Ugly breadvan, now become sought after classic.
Fiat Coupe anyone?
I am biased, I've taken the BMW shilling for 8 years and worked at Rover before that, so am qualified to make a number of points.
Firstly, this has no Rover input whatsoever, unlike the MINI, which shares gearboxes, switches and lots of other small items with its Rover cousins. Made in the UK you see, and same parts suppliers. Logical really.
The One has the platform of the next 3 series underneath it. It will sell, and very well, to young professional people as first Co Car or first "proper" car when they get over the college years and debt cars.
Someone else mentioned that it would look good on the Co Car list. Got it in one I think.
Will also sell to existing BMW owners looking to trade down.
BMW needs to remain independent as a manufacturer. Look at what happens when Mercedes merges with Chrysler/ Mitsubishi as an example of what can go wrong when you don't keep your autonomy.
To do this they need to sell more cars. Different cars, not just more 3 Series Deisel saloons. The sad fact is if you stand still in the car industry, you become Rover / Fiat / Ford....
For what it is worth, I am not really a Bangle fan but his designs do grow on you. look at how many people now like the 5/7/Z4 who absolutely panned them when they were announced. the 6 is an absolute belter as well.
This thread just confirms it. Massive reaction.
Still cant understand why theyre making their cars look like a 7 series. Youd have thought theyd have learned their lesson with that 
BMW used to make some really nice looking cars. An M coupe is still one of my favourite looking cars of all time.
base models beemers while possibly making the bulk of the money for the company arnt not good for long term survival.
Why is Toyota spending so much money differentiating itself with Lexus, or Honda with Acura or Nissan with Infinity. People who buy expensive luxury cars dont want the same badge on a budget run around.
BMW do not make a 4 cylinder motor thats competitive against rival manufacturers. They should stick with what they know best...6's and 8's (and the odd 10)
BMW used to make some really nice looking cars. An M coupe is still one of my favourite looking cars of all time.
base models beemers while possibly making the bulk of the money for the company arnt not good for long term survival.
Why is Toyota spending so much money differentiating itself with Lexus, or Honda with Acura or Nissan with Infinity. People who buy expensive luxury cars dont want the same badge on a budget run around.
BMW do not make a 4 cylinder motor thats competitive against rival manufacturers. They should stick with what they know best...6's and 8's (and the odd 10
)
Base Model Toyota = £8k Yaris
Base Model BMW = £16k 1 Series / Compact
Top end models of any prestige range are the halo cars. maybe acount for 5 or 10% of total production.
Mid range six cylinder product will cover 50% of production.
4 Cylinder product covers the rest.
In current economic climate for Co cars with Emissions Taxation, 4 cylinder petrols (driven a valvetronic anyone?) and 2.0 150ps deisel are definitely the way to go if you dont want Gordon Brown cleaning you out.
This is an enthusiast web site. Most contributors own something tasty or aspire to. We are about 5% of the motoring population. No one can build the M3/M5/645/M coupe/Z8/ new Z4 etc when aiming only at such a small market sector.
You need to spread your cost base. Toyota is the second biggest car co in the world. BMW does not aspire to that. We want to be the biggest "Quality car" maker. And independent as well.
Someone here said earlier that we haven't made a decent car since the E34. As I said earlier, you dont stand still in this industry. If you want to succeed, you musn't be afraid to innovate.
There is a whole new generation of people who buy their cars based on the perceived brand value. (Audi A4 anyone?) At least BMW backs up the perception with engineering integrity.
Base Model BMW = £16k 1 Series / Compact
Top end models of any prestige range are the halo cars. maybe acount for 5 or 10% of total production.
Mid range six cylinder product will cover 50% of production.
4 Cylinder product covers the rest.
In current economic climate for Co cars with Emissions Taxation, 4 cylinder petrols (driven a valvetronic anyone?) and 2.0 150ps deisel are definitely the way to go if you dont want Gordon Brown cleaning you out.
This is an enthusiast web site. Most contributors own something tasty or aspire to. We are about 5% of the motoring population. No one can build the M3/M5/645/M coupe/Z8/ new Z4 etc when aiming only at such a small market sector.
You need to spread your cost base. Toyota is the second biggest car co in the world. BMW does not aspire to that. We want to be the biggest "Quality car" maker. And independent as well.
Someone here said earlier that we haven't made a decent car since the E34. As I said earlier, you dont stand still in this industry. If you want to succeed, you musn't be afraid to innovate.
There is a whole new generation of people who buy their cars based on the perceived brand value. (Audi A4 anyone?) At least BMW backs up the perception with engineering integrity.
Mark M said:
In current economic climate for Co cars with Emissions Taxation, 4 cylinder petrols (driven a valvetronic anyone?) and 2.0 150ps deisel are definitely the way to go if you dont want Gordon Brown cleaning you out.
( . . . )
Valvetronic is a nice engine. BMW makes nice engines from 4 to 12ers, omit bikes . . . Still looks will count in this market segment. I understand you have to stand out. But in this way? O wow there is the Deawoo again that made my head turn away from the Beemer . . .
I'm not quite sure I understand the negative reaction to this. For the first time in a couple of decades someone's making a compact car with rwd and 50:50 balance and the styling is all anyone's talking about.
OK, the 5 door is no beauty, but it's stance is so much better than the nose-heavy look of the fwd opposition with their huge front overhangs.
OK, the 5 door is no beauty, but it's stance is so much better than the nose-heavy look of the fwd opposition with their huge front overhangs.
Thanuk said:
"I'm not quite sure I understand the negative reaction to this. For the first time in a couple of decades someone's making a compact car with rwd and 50:50 balance and the styling is all anyone's talking about."
Because they could have built a good looking car with RWD and 50:50 balance. Instead they built a crap looking car with RWD and 50:50 balance. You expect more from BMW.
Mark M, I have no issue with BMW building a 1 series, but why let Bangle loose on it. Do you think as a result of his styling BMW will sell more or less cars than if they had stuck to their usual styling?
"I'm not quite sure I understand the negative reaction to this. For the first time in a couple of decades someone's making a compact car with rwd and 50:50 balance and the styling is all anyone's talking about."
Because they could have built a good looking car with RWD and 50:50 balance. Instead they built a crap looking car with RWD and 50:50 balance. You expect more from BMW.
Mark M, I have no issue with BMW building a 1 series, but why let Bangle loose on it. Do you think as a result of his styling BMW will sell more or less cars than if they had stuck to their usual styling?
Mark M said:
Vladd,
I am honestly not sure. However, can you imagine 5 different BMW ranges all looking very alike?
Do you think we can get this thread over the 100 posts?
Ted, What is the record anyway?
My guess: the Type R thread, 485 comments on this story
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=71&t=8401
I'm surprised at the conservative nature of you lot. Never built a good looking car since the E34 my *rse!
If the 1 series has similar or better rear room to an Audi A2, if its got a well balanced chassis, spritely performance and a good interior I'll definitely put my name down for one for Mrs SS7. We've got 2 young children, and have a 3 year old 5 series estate as a family wagon, but a 1 series will be ok once the need to lug cots/pushchairs etc around is no longer pressing. It'll do us fine, and I for one think it looks great.
Now if I can just find a nice 968CS as well....
Cheers,
If the 1 series has similar or better rear room to an Audi A2, if its got a well balanced chassis, spritely performance and a good interior I'll definitely put my name down for one for Mrs SS7. We've got 2 young children, and have a 3 year old 5 series estate as a family wagon, but a 1 series will be ok once the need to lug cots/pushchairs etc around is no longer pressing. It'll do us fine, and I for one think it looks great.
Now if I can just find a nice 968CS as well....
Cheers,
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