Seat Leon Cupra R 225 boost leak.
Discussion
So, after having some problems with my LCR (cutting out at high revs in low gears and going into limp mode) I'm starting to suspect a boost leak. I've been over everything under the engine bay several times and cannot see anything obvious or hear a hissing while the engine is revved, I've looked at the dump valve, all hoses attached normally etc.
It's going to get the fault codes read on Saturday at a VAG specialist in Newcastle, describing the problems I was having over the phone their first guess was a boost leak, to which they suggested a smoke test to find any leaks in the engine. Apparently boost leaks are the bane of the 1.8T engine, so much so that they bought a smoke tester just for the purpose of fixing the turbo/intake systems on these engines!
Whatever it is, I'm hoping to identify it and eradicate the fault. I don't think the turbo fan is knacked, at least I hope not! It still seems to boost quite hard, just not as hard as it did and it seems to take a little longer to come on boost. Really got me a bit hacked off.
So much for VAG group reliability, has anyone else had trouble from a 1.820vt engine?
It's going to get the fault codes read on Saturday at a VAG specialist in Newcastle, describing the problems I was having over the phone their first guess was a boost leak, to which they suggested a smoke test to find any leaks in the engine. Apparently boost leaks are the bane of the 1.8T engine, so much so that they bought a smoke tester just for the purpose of fixing the turbo/intake systems on these engines!
Whatever it is, I'm hoping to identify it and eradicate the fault. I don't think the turbo fan is knacked, at least I hope not! It still seems to boost quite hard, just not as hard as it did and it seems to take a little longer to come on boost. Really got me a bit hacked off.
So much for VAG group reliability, has anyone else had trouble from a 1.820vt engine?
Had air leaks on a few in the various cars they were fitted to.
Most common leaks i have found are, The lower intercooler pipe where it fits into the intercooler itself, the dump valve failing under boost & the breather pipes normally the y piece one at the top but also where it feeds into the front of the engine block under the inlet.
Hth Neil
Most common leaks i have found are, The lower intercooler pipe where it fits into the intercooler itself, the dump valve failing under boost & the breather pipes normally the y piece one at the top but also where it feeds into the front of the engine block under the inlet.
Hth Neil
Mastodon2 said:
So much for VAG group reliability, has anyone else had trouble from a 1.820vt engine?
I'm yet to find a single owner thats had no problems, a few people i know have had them go very badly wrong and most have got shot of them now. Lots of petty sensor issues too.Vag reliability?
Although if it is just a boost leak then yours should only be a minor problem for now.
The woeful 115bhp 2.0 n/a is even worse, a couple of friends who have had v6 4motions though have proved to be the most reliable of that era but still suffer from sensor issues.
I think the new 2.0T ones are less problematic.
rb5230 said:
Mastodon2 said:
So much for VAG group reliability, has anyone else had trouble from a 1.820vt engine?
I'm yet to find a single owner thats had no problems, a few people i know have had them go very badly wrong and most have got shot of them now. Lots of petty sensor issues too.Vag reliability?
Although if it is just a boost leak then yours should only be a minor problem for now.
The woeful 115bhp 2.0 n/a is even worse, a couple of friends who have had v6 4motions though have proved to be the most reliable of that era but still suffer from sensor issues.
I think the new 2.0T ones are less problematic.
My current 1.8T 210 S3 has 127000 miles on it, only had an issue with a coil pack in the 7 months and 8000 miles I've owned it. The previous owner had no issues at all. It doesn't burn any oil or smoke.
If regular oil changes are carried out, then these will run for big mileages with few problems.
Contrary to my experiences then of Audi TT`s expiring very early and friends having golfs also failing very early these were all when almost new and not poorly serviced examples.
Have seen plenty of s3`s on ebay with knackered engines too.
But then this can happen to most makes of car but ime it seemed much more common on the vag cars my friends owned, and some sensors seem to drop like flies.
Dont get me started on coilpacks, my dads 56reg Audi s4 had to have all 8 replaced in the 3 years he had it and a friends mums a4 v6 had all 6 changed withing a year, Luckily only 30quid each and most are not too much hassle to fit but you still need a diagnostics device to find out which ones need changing.
Have seen plenty of s3`s on ebay with knackered engines too.
But then this can happen to most makes of car but ime it seemed much more common on the vag cars my friends owned, and some sensors seem to drop like flies.
Dont get me started on coilpacks, my dads 56reg Audi s4 had to have all 8 replaced in the 3 years he had it and a friends mums a4 v6 had all 6 changed withing a year, Luckily only 30quid each and most are not too much hassle to fit but you still need a diagnostics device to find out which ones need changing.
jjones said:
how bad is the leak? get your hand down the back of the engine (when its cold and turned off) and feel for the pipe coming off the top of the turbo. check that it is rock solidly secured they have a habbit of popping off.
It can't be that bad a leak, it still seems to boost normally, when I began suspecting a leak I thought it was feeling a bit sluggish and was not boosting as hard, but I think perhaps I was imagining that. It only cuts out when on full boost, at high revs (towards 6000rpm). I think it's probably a small split in a hose or a pipe that is not properly connected. I will try getting my hand down the back of the engine and feeling for that pipe.I'm getting the fault codes read tomorrow, could turn out to be something completely unrelated to the turbo system!
After getting the fault code read, the problem appears to have been illuminated. The problem was with the air intake temp sensor, was recording the air entering the engine as being very hot, which is probably what caused the limp mode activation.
After reading the fault codes they gave it a good rev to see if the turbo was boosting normally, which it was. Dear god it was loud, that Milltek exhaust sounds like the god of thunder
The sensor and the wires too it were looking a bit ratty, so it's getting replaced next weekend. One of the mechanics took my car out for a spin to see if he could reproduce the fault, and even though he was some distance away I could hear my car roaring through the gears, it's certainly louder than it seems when I'm driving it! When he got back he said that it had not cut out and seemed to be driving fine, and he was quite impressed with the performance too.
I did point out that the car has so far only cut out on hot afternoons, which is probably what was overloading the somewhat tired looking sensor. Hopefully after the work next weekend my Cupra R will be bulletproof again.
After reading the fault codes they gave it a good rev to see if the turbo was boosting normally, which it was. Dear god it was loud, that Milltek exhaust sounds like the god of thunder
The sensor and the wires too it were looking a bit ratty, so it's getting replaced next weekend. One of the mechanics took my car out for a spin to see if he could reproduce the fault, and even though he was some distance away I could hear my car roaring through the gears, it's certainly louder than it seems when I'm driving it! When he got back he said that it had not cut out and seemed to be driving fine, and he was quite impressed with the performance too.
I did point out that the car has so far only cut out on hot afternoons, which is probably what was overloading the somewhat tired looking sensor. Hopefully after the work next weekend my Cupra R will be bulletproof again.
Another infuriating update;
I took my car to a well known independent VAG specialist garage in Newcastle, who read the fault codes and it appeared to say the "Torque sensor" or something had caused the fault code. They had only seen this once before and could not remember what had caused it on the other car.
After some further investigation (revving the car hard while stationary) it seemed the turbo system was working normally, airflow into the engine was in the expected range and coolant and oil temps were normal. They did note that the air intake temp was high, and upon looking at the sensor decided that it was probably broken - it did look a bit ratty. As the car had previously gone into limp mode on hot afternoons, it was surmised that the hot afternoon air was overloading the knackered sensor.
Anyway, I had been driving like an old man for a week to prevent tripping the fault again, but last night I decided to give it a bit of leather, thinking that in the cool air at night it would be ok. The car seemed to do ok, pulling hard in 3rd and 4th gear up towards the red line, but it did not trip the fault this time.
I took the car back to the garage this morning to get the sensor fitted, they noted that no new fault codes had been recorded for the week and then I drove off, only to to find the damn fault reoccur immediately as soon as I put my foot down in third gear, once again leaving the car in limp mode as soon as I got to about 62mph. I phoned the garage immediately, who said I would have to leave the car with them so they could have a proper look at it. Unfortunately I cannot leave the car with them again until next Saturday, so that's another week of farting with a car that is still not right.
So, what could this torque sensor valve all about then? The car has a remap though I'm not sure which one, when the boost comes on it comes on very hard - could this be overloading the engine and causing it to go into limp mode to avoid damage? Has anyone ever heard of anything like this happening before? Looking back it does seem a little odd that a torque sensor fault could be related to an air temp sensor, but I'm not a mechanic so I trusted that these guy would know how to fix it.
Would it be a possibility that flashing the ECU with the original SEAT map for the car could prevent this kind of s
t happening again? I'd be happy to trade a bit of power for reliability and useability!
I took my car to a well known independent VAG specialist garage in Newcastle, who read the fault codes and it appeared to say the "Torque sensor" or something had caused the fault code. They had only seen this once before and could not remember what had caused it on the other car.
After some further investigation (revving the car hard while stationary) it seemed the turbo system was working normally, airflow into the engine was in the expected range and coolant and oil temps were normal. They did note that the air intake temp was high, and upon looking at the sensor decided that it was probably broken - it did look a bit ratty. As the car had previously gone into limp mode on hot afternoons, it was surmised that the hot afternoon air was overloading the knackered sensor.
Anyway, I had been driving like an old man for a week to prevent tripping the fault again, but last night I decided to give it a bit of leather, thinking that in the cool air at night it would be ok. The car seemed to do ok, pulling hard in 3rd and 4th gear up towards the red line, but it did not trip the fault this time.
I took the car back to the garage this morning to get the sensor fitted, they noted that no new fault codes had been recorded for the week and then I drove off, only to to find the damn fault reoccur immediately as soon as I put my foot down in third gear, once again leaving the car in limp mode as soon as I got to about 62mph. I phoned the garage immediately, who said I would have to leave the car with them so they could have a proper look at it. Unfortunately I cannot leave the car with them again until next Saturday, so that's another week of farting with a car that is still not right.
So, what could this torque sensor valve all about then? The car has a remap though I'm not sure which one, when the boost comes on it comes on very hard - could this be overloading the engine and causing it to go into limp mode to avoid damage? Has anyone ever heard of anything like this happening before? Looking back it does seem a little odd that a torque sensor fault could be related to an air temp sensor, but I'm not a mechanic so I trusted that these guy would know how to fix it.
Would it be a possibility that flashing the ECU with the original SEAT map for the car could prevent this kind of s
t happening again? I'd be happy to trade a bit of power for reliability and useability!The plot thickens...
When I dropped the car off this morning, the mechanic who was to work on it was on the phone trying to get the sensor delivered to the garage. He said it was nearby and that it would be brought over so it could be fitted. I thought nothing more of it, handed over my keys and jumped into my waiting taxi.
I picked it up about 1pm time and it didn't even pass the test of some hard revs in third gear before dying at 60mph.
After taking it for another (slow) drive, I decided to lift the bonnet up and have a look at the shiney new air intake sensor, and what did I find...
the exact same sensor as the car had on when I dropped it off this morning!
Here are some photos I just took about 20 minutes ago;
Here is the engine bay, the MAF is in the top red circle (though it was not suspected to be faulty) and the air intake temperature sensor is in the bottom red circle.
And here it a pic of the sensor where the air intake feeds into the block;
Let's take a closer look at that sensor...
The wires are hanging out (which the mechanic commented on last week), and it's filthy and tatty looking. Actually, it looks as though it's done 85,000 miles - just like the rest of the engine! Pretty damn dirty for a sensor that should only have come out of the box 4 hours ago. Has anyone else ever seen a new part aquire 85,000 miles of road dirt in 4 hours and 20 miles of driving? I certainly have not!
I was assured the new part was fitted and the car was functioning well on a diagnostic before it was handed back to me, and I paid my £70. Now, looking at it, part of, a very large part actually, suspects that the sensor never arrived, was never fitted and then I was billed and sent on my way in the hope that the fault would not reoccur and I would never notice.
Where to go from here?
When I dropped the car off this morning, the mechanic who was to work on it was on the phone trying to get the sensor delivered to the garage. He said it was nearby and that it would be brought over so it could be fitted. I thought nothing more of it, handed over my keys and jumped into my waiting taxi.
I picked it up about 1pm time and it didn't even pass the test of some hard revs in third gear before dying at 60mph.
After taking it for another (slow) drive, I decided to lift the bonnet up and have a look at the shiney new air intake sensor, and what did I find...
the exact same sensor as the car had on when I dropped it off this morning!
Here are some photos I just took about 20 minutes ago;
Here is the engine bay, the MAF is in the top red circle (though it was not suspected to be faulty) and the air intake temperature sensor is in the bottom red circle.
And here it a pic of the sensor where the air intake feeds into the block;
Let's take a closer look at that sensor...
The wires are hanging out (which the mechanic commented on last week), and it's filthy and tatty looking. Actually, it looks as though it's done 85,000 miles - just like the rest of the engine! Pretty damn dirty for a sensor that should only have come out of the box 4 hours ago. Has anyone else ever seen a new part aquire 85,000 miles of road dirt in 4 hours and 20 miles of driving? I certainly have not!
I was assured the new part was fitted and the car was functioning well on a diagnostic before it was handed back to me, and I paid my £70. Now, looking at it, part of, a very large part actually, suspects that the sensor never arrived, was never fitted and then I was billed and sent on my way in the hope that the fault would not reoccur and I would never notice.
Where to go from here?
The sensor component, which the connector block plugs into looks like new plastic, although I must admit the hex bolt does not seem to have any marks or rust removed, if they loosened it to replace the sensor, rather than it being a clip in type attachment, then you would expect some marks on the hex bolt at least. It might be an option to put it back to the standard map, and see if it goes into limp mode, possibly get a variable map, so you can play with the boost and timing settings, certainly sounds like you got a bit of a head scratcher there.
Even the plastic plate part that sits on the metal intake body looks dirty though, and the big thumbprint on the connector housing is mine. I'm going to get some more opinions tonight on whether or not that sensor is brand new or 7 years old.
Some of the suggestions I've had from seatcupra.net as to why this fault is occuring include;
Collapsing turbo intake pipe starving air to the engine and engaging limp mode (would create a fault code in "intake manifold pressure" or something, not detected when read
Crap air filter failing to supply air to the engine
Possible faulty MAF (though no fault code for this was detected when read)
Possible dodgy map
tbh, the air filter is st, I had been thinking of changing that since I got the car, and the standard TIP is meant to be prone to leaks and collapsing, hence why a lot of owners upgrade to better ones.
Some of the suggestions I've had from seatcupra.net as to why this fault is occuring include;
Collapsing turbo intake pipe starving air to the engine and engaging limp mode (would create a fault code in "intake manifold pressure" or something, not detected when read
Crap air filter failing to supply air to the engine
Possible faulty MAF (though no fault code for this was detected when read)
Possible dodgy map
tbh, the air filter is s
t, I had been thinking of changing that since I got the car, and the standard TIP is meant to be prone to leaks and collapsing, hence why a lot of owners upgrade to better ones. The sensor looks new to me, the sensor is the small bit that goes into the inlet manifold held in with the hex bolt.
The plug looks 85k miles old because it is, that part would not be changed and a new hex bolt would not have been supplied with the sensor.
The actual sensor can get gummed up a bit, when I cleaned the TB on my 1.8T, I took that sensor out too and just cleaned it up carefully with some carb cleaner.
The TIP could be collapsing, Forge ones are expensive and a PITA to fit though!
Also the turbo outlet has a really naff spring clip that secures it to the intercooler pipework.
I'd check all the vacuum lines for leaks too, there are a few under the meshed plastic cover near the dipstick that can be prone to failure.
Also the Y hose off of the rocker cover can split in the middle of the Y too.
I changed a whole host of sensors on mine (MAF, 4x coils, crank sensor etc) and still had a 'boost leak' fault code, bloody thing!
Chasing boost faults on these is a nightmare, good luck!
The plug looks 85k miles old because it is, that part would not be changed and a new hex bolt would not have been supplied with the sensor.
The actual sensor can get gummed up a bit, when I cleaned the TB on my 1.8T, I took that sensor out too and just cleaned it up carefully with some carb cleaner.
The TIP could be collapsing, Forge ones are expensive and a PITA to fit though!
Also the turbo outlet has a really naff spring clip that secures it to the intercooler pipework.
I'd check all the vacuum lines for leaks too, there are a few under the meshed plastic cover near the dipstick that can be prone to failure.
Also the Y hose off of the rocker cover can split in the middle of the Y too.
I changed a whole host of sensors on mine (MAF, 4x coils, crank sensor etc) and still had a 'boost leak' fault code, bloody thing!
Chasing boost faults on these is a nightmare, good luck!
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