Urgent insurance advice needed
Discussion
Hello All,
I seem to be in a bit of bother.
To cut a long story short, I was recently in a crash which wrote off my car, and 2 others. The person who caused the accident didn't stop, and as I was next in line (I hit 2 on coming cars due to the actions of someone else) the insurance claim seems to have fallen on me.
To cut another long story short, I've just had a call from the insurance company to tell me because there were undeclared modifications on the car, they've cancelled my cover back to the policy start date, so won't be covering the accident.
All performance modifications to the car were declared, they're disputing the claim as I (regretfully) didn't think to declare things like the bucket seat, modified interior etc. They say if I'd mentioned these they wouldn't have covered the car so they're invalidating the fact I ever had insurance with them.
The guy on the phone from the underwriters wasn't clear on what the process was, so I'm asking now what normally happens in these situations? He did say they wouldn't be looking to penalise me for driving without insurance, which while good is also a little confusing.
Any advice would be more than welcome.
Thanks.
I seem to be in a bit of bother.
To cut a long story short, I was recently in a crash which wrote off my car, and 2 others. The person who caused the accident didn't stop, and as I was next in line (I hit 2 on coming cars due to the actions of someone else) the insurance claim seems to have fallen on me.
To cut another long story short, I've just had a call from the insurance company to tell me because there were undeclared modifications on the car, they've cancelled my cover back to the policy start date, so won't be covering the accident.
All performance modifications to the car were declared, they're disputing the claim as I (regretfully) didn't think to declare things like the bucket seat, modified interior etc. They say if I'd mentioned these they wouldn't have covered the car so they're invalidating the fact I ever had insurance with them.
The guy on the phone from the underwriters wasn't clear on what the process was, so I'm asking now what normally happens in these situations? He did say they wouldn't be looking to penalise me for driving without insurance, which while good is also a little confusing.
Any advice would be more than welcome.
Thanks.
Some insurers (eg morethan) aren't bothered about non-performance mods.
It could be a way your insurers are trying avoid the claim in which case it comes out of MIB funds - where's Noger
However if they now make you uninsured it means you could be due for 6 points etc.
I'm not sure what the ombudsman has to say but they told an insurer to pay where they tried to get out due to an undeclared roofrack
See a thread of Msdemeanors this morning
It could be a way your insurers are trying avoid the claim in which case it comes out of MIB funds - where's Noger
However if they now make you uninsured it means you could be due for 6 points etc.
I'm not sure what the ombudsman has to say but they told an insurer to pay where they tried to get out due to an undeclared roofrack
See a thread of Msdemeanors this morning
I suggest you avoid taking advice off an internet forum where the advice will be contradictory and incorrect in a lot of the posts. Instead go and talk to your local Citizens Advice Bureau, or a soliciotr, as you're very much in the s
t.
If your policy has been cancelled ab initio (from the start and that is the words that will be used) then the insurer will have to refund all premiums (have they done this?). If so, then your policy never existed in the eyes of the Law, so you were uninsured. As such you are going to be:
(a) liable personally for the costs of the accident, both damage caused and injuries, although this will revert to the MIB who will definitely pursue you for their outlay.
(b) possibly be prosecuted for driving without insurance.
However, if the insurer is simply voiding the claim from your side, then they will pick up the other vehicles damage & injuries, depending how they operate they may still pursue you for this outlay. You are still open to be prosecuted though, as whilst the insurer will cover the accident under their RTA obligations, they will not indemnify you.
t.If your policy has been cancelled ab initio (from the start and that is the words that will be used) then the insurer will have to refund all premiums (have they done this?). If so, then your policy never existed in the eyes of the Law, so you were uninsured. As such you are going to be:
(a) liable personally for the costs of the accident, both damage caused and injuries, although this will revert to the MIB who will definitely pursue you for their outlay.
(b) possibly be prosecuted for driving without insurance.
However, if the insurer is simply voiding the claim from your side, then they will pick up the other vehicles damage & injuries, depending how they operate they may still pursue you for this outlay. You are still open to be prosecuted though, as whilst the insurer will cover the accident under their RTA obligations, they will not indemnify you.
One of two things will happen.
Either they will accept that they will be RTA insurer (which they will be) and deal with the claim.
Or they will wait to see if you have a judgement against you, which is what triggers them to be RTA insurer, and then they will be forced to take the claim on.
In the latter case they will be able to recover from you.
As has been said, they KEY thing is if they were induced to take a risk they would not have taken were it not for your non-disclosure.
Not good, particularly if there were injuries. I would be looking very seriously at getting some advice from a solicitor who can talk you through all this.
ETA - reading it again, you are not clear as to this being "own damage" or "third party damage". The former is clearly the better option for you (well, cheaper anyway).
If the negligent party buggered off and you don't have their reg no, then it would be an MIB claim from you.
It really depends on the chain of events, and how the liabilities stack up.
I can't see how, if you are not negligent, not being able to identify the at fault party will mean negligence would transfer to you.
Either they will accept that they will be RTA insurer (which they will be) and deal with the claim.
Or they will wait to see if you have a judgement against you, which is what triggers them to be RTA insurer, and then they will be forced to take the claim on.
In the latter case they will be able to recover from you.
As has been said, they KEY thing is if they were induced to take a risk they would not have taken were it not for your non-disclosure.
Not good, particularly if there were injuries. I would be looking very seriously at getting some advice from a solicitor who can talk you through all this.
ETA - reading it again, you are not clear as to this being "own damage" or "third party damage". The former is clearly the better option for you (well, cheaper anyway).
If the negligent party buggered off and you don't have their reg no, then it would be an MIB claim from you.
It really depends on the chain of events, and how the liabilities stack up.
I can't see how, if you are not negligent, not being able to identify the at fault party will mean negligence would transfer to you.
Edited by Noger on Friday 27th May 16:15
Noger said:
One of two things will happen.
Either they will accept that they will be RTA insurer (which they will be) and deal with the claim.
Or they will wait to see if you have a judgement against you, which is what triggers them to be RTA insurer, and then they will be forced to take the claim on.
In the latter case they will be able to recover from you.
As has been said, they KEY thing is if they were induced to take a risk they would not have taken were it not for your non-disclosure.
Not good, particularly if there were injuries. I would be looking very seriously at getting some advice from a solicitor who can talk you through all this.
Even if it's cancelled ab initio as the OP suggests?Either they will accept that they will be RTA insurer (which they will be) and deal with the claim.
Or they will wait to see if you have a judgement against you, which is what triggers them to be RTA insurer, and then they will be forced to take the claim on.
In the latter case they will be able to recover from you.
As has been said, they KEY thing is if they were induced to take a risk they would not have taken were it not for your non-disclosure.
Not good, particularly if there were injuries. I would be looking very seriously at getting some advice from a solicitor who can talk you through all this.
R1 Loon said:
Noger said:
One of two things will happen.
Either they will accept that they will be RTA insurer (which they will be) and deal with the claim.
Or they will wait to see if you have a judgement against you, which is what triggers them to be RTA insurer, and then they will be forced to take the claim on.
In the latter case they will be able to recover from you.
As has been said, they KEY thing is if they were induced to take a risk they would not have taken were it not for your non-disclosure.
Not good, particularly if there were injuries. I would be looking very seriously at getting some advice from a solicitor who can talk you through all this.
Even if it's cancelled ab initio as the OP suggests?Either they will accept that they will be RTA insurer (which they will be) and deal with the claim.
Or they will wait to see if you have a judgement against you, which is what triggers them to be RTA insurer, and then they will be forced to take the claim on.
In the latter case they will be able to recover from you.
As has been said, they KEY thing is if they were induced to take a risk they would not have taken were it not for your non-disclosure.
Not good, particularly if there were injuries. I would be looking very seriously at getting some advice from a solicitor who can talk you through all this.
Noger said:
Yes, the insurer would act for the MIB in this case. But only if there was a judgement against the OP (or it was so obvious that it was cheaper to just deal). Am confused as to who is at fault.
That was the confusion in my mind. Cheers 
The OP is apparently at fault as the car that caused the accident didn't stop. Hmmmmmm.
It is entirely possible that there would be a split liability between the at fault driver and the OP, but without further details it is impossible to tell.
Things would be "better" if someone got the reg no.
Anyway, am on a ferry to France in a few hours, so hope you get some advice OP. From what you have posted it looks a bit messy.
Things would be "better" if someone got the reg no.
Anyway, am on a ferry to France in a few hours, so hope you get some advice OP. From what you have posted it looks a bit messy.
Noger said:
It is entirely possible that there would be a split liability between the at fault driver and the OP, but without further details it is impossible to tell.
Things would be "better" if someone got the reg no.
Anyway, am on a ferry to France in a few hours, so hope you get some advice OP. From what you have posted it looks a bit messy.
Spooky, same here Things would be "better" if someone got the reg no.
Anyway, am on a ferry to France in a few hours, so hope you get some advice OP. From what you have posted it looks a bit messy.
Thank you for all the advice so far.
As I'm sure you're curious...
The accident was on a perfectly straight NSL road. I approached a group of 4 cars travelling around 40mph behind a lorry. 3 cars overtook and the 4th, piloted by an elderly person hung back and stayed to the left. I started to overtake the car and it was that point they decided to swing out to have a look to see if they could over take the lorry. They obviously didn't check mirrors / blind spot as they swung into me (no contact) and as I steered right to avoid them I clipped an oncoming vehicle which put us both into a spin, at which point a 2nd oncoming vehicle t-boned me.
Police attended the scene and took statements but unfortunately no one got the reg number of the original car. The only witness was the first guy I hit, who was an AA instructor.
The underwriter guy on the phone wasn't clear as to whether the insurance company would be recovering the 3rd party cost or not, but I suspect they will as he was very clear in saying the policy is cancelled back to the START date, nearly 2 years ago.
Again, thanks for the advice, I will speak to anniesdad if I can. Unfortunately being between jobs money for a solicitor is a little tight, it's something I'll try and do though if I can be recommended a good one.
As I'm sure you're curious...
The accident was on a perfectly straight NSL road. I approached a group of 4 cars travelling around 40mph behind a lorry. 3 cars overtook and the 4th, piloted by an elderly person hung back and stayed to the left. I started to overtake the car and it was that point they decided to swing out to have a look to see if they could over take the lorry. They obviously didn't check mirrors / blind spot as they swung into me (no contact) and as I steered right to avoid them I clipped an oncoming vehicle which put us both into a spin, at which point a 2nd oncoming vehicle t-boned me.
Police attended the scene and took statements but unfortunately no one got the reg number of the original car. The only witness was the first guy I hit, who was an AA instructor.
The underwriter guy on the phone wasn't clear as to whether the insurance company would be recovering the 3rd party cost or not, but I suspect they will as he was very clear in saying the policy is cancelled back to the START date, nearly 2 years ago.
Again, thanks for the advice, I will speak to anniesdad if I can. Unfortunately being between jobs money for a solicitor is a little tight, it's something I'll try and do though if I can be recommended a good one.
Noger said:
Or they will wait to see if you have a judgement against you, which is what triggers them to be RTA insurer, and then they will be forced to take the claim on.
Can you define judgement for me please? The police at the scene were happy it was just a RTA[quote=NogerAs has been said, they KEY thing is if they were induced to take a risk they would not have taken were it not for your non-disclosure.
Not good, particularly if there were injuries. I would be looking very seriously at getting some advice from a solicitor who can talk you through all this.
How do you know it was an elderly driver 
It is a right mess and maybe why we all take out insurance
Why aren't you claiming off the third guy who ran into you?
Msdemeanor may help on the contractural issues so your insurer doesnt run away.
Shouldnt all three be claiming from MIB if the causer is not avilable?
It is a right mess and maybe why we all take out insurance
Why aren't you claiming off the third guy who ran into you?
Msdemeanor may help on the contractural issues so your insurer doesnt run away.
Shouldnt all three be claiming from MIB if the causer is not avilable?
Edited by saaby93 on Friday 27th May 16:45
jon- said:
Thank you for all the advice so far.
As I'm sure you're curious...
The accident was on a perfectly straight NSL road. I approached a group of 4 cars travelling around 40mph behind a lorry. 3 cars overtook and the 4th, piloted by an elderly person hung back and stayed to the left. I started to overtake the car and it was that point they decided to swing out to have a look to see if they could over take the lorry. They obviously didn't check mirrors / blind spot as they swung into me (no contact) and as I steered right to avoid them I clipped an oncoming vehicle which put us both into a spin, at which point a 2nd oncoming vehicle t-boned me.
Police attended the scene and took statements but unfortunately no one got the reg number of the original car. The only witness was the first guy I hit, who was an AA instructor.
The underwriter guy on the phone wasn't clear as to whether the insurance company would be recovering the 3rd party cost or not, but I suspect they will as he was very clear in saying the policy is cancelled back to the START date, nearly 2 years ago.
Again, thanks for the advice, I will speak to anniesdad if I can. Unfortunately being between jobs money for a solicitor is a little tight, it's something I'll try and do though if I can be recommended a good one.
You're going to need to explain the road layout, as it sounds like you were either doing a dodgy overtake, as there was oncoming traffic, or did the road split into more lanes?As I'm sure you're curious...
The accident was on a perfectly straight NSL road. I approached a group of 4 cars travelling around 40mph behind a lorry. 3 cars overtook and the 4th, piloted by an elderly person hung back and stayed to the left. I started to overtake the car and it was that point they decided to swing out to have a look to see if they could over take the lorry. They obviously didn't check mirrors / blind spot as they swung into me (no contact) and as I steered right to avoid them I clipped an oncoming vehicle which put us both into a spin, at which point a 2nd oncoming vehicle t-boned me.
Police attended the scene and took statements but unfortunately no one got the reg number of the original car. The only witness was the first guy I hit, who was an AA instructor.
The underwriter guy on the phone wasn't clear as to whether the insurance company would be recovering the 3rd party cost or not, but I suspect they will as he was very clear in saying the policy is cancelled back to the START date, nearly 2 years ago.
Again, thanks for the advice, I will speak to anniesdad if I can. Unfortunately being between jobs money for a solicitor is a little tight, it's something I'll try and do though if I can be recommended a good one.
Judgement is where you get are ordered by a court to pay a set amount of money for the claim.
saaby93 said:
How do you know it was an elderly driver
Because I remember taking their obvious age into my evaluation about whether to make the overtake. The mass of bright white hair was obvious!oldcynic said:
'd guess because he was busy spinning down the wrong side of the road at the moment of impact?
Correct.Although my insurance was FC I've no problem with getting no pay out for my car, it's worth more in bits than they'd have offered.
My concern is with the 3rd parties, as there was at least £10,000+ worth of damage. I'm assuming the 3rd parties would have bene looking to recover this from my insurance as I was the one that hit them. If I can deflect the claim to the MIB due to not being at fault that would be great.
My only question is how I would prove I wasn't at fault. Obviously it's fairly hard to lose the car on a straight bit of road, and the statement from the AA instructor was something along the lines of that but would the other insurance companies take that as word? Would it end in court?
Edited by jon- on Friday 27th May 16:56
R1 Loon said:
You're going to need to explain the road layout, as it sounds like you were either doing a dodgy overtake, as there was oncoming traffic, or did the road split into more lanes?
The road is a VERY wide section of NSL road. Single carriage way but enough space for both lanes to be doing overtakes at the same time without contact. In fact, it's almost the norm down that piece of road to have 3 lanes of traffic, sometimes 4!Thanks for the advice so far.
jon- said:
My concern is with the 3rd parties, as there was at least £10,000+ worth of damage. I'm assuming the 3rd parties would have bene looking to recover this from my insurance as I was the one that hit them. If I can deflect the claim to the MIB due to not being at fault that would be great.
The damage will be the least of your worries when the injury claims and attached solicitors fees start. You can't "deflect" it, they'll pay but recover it from you. You are at fault for the accident end of story. There is no way out of this, you are firmly in the st.jon- said:
My only question is how I would prove I wasn't at fault. Obviously it's fairly hard to lose the car on a straight bit of road, and the statement from the AA instructor was something along the lines of that but would the other insurance companies take that as word? Would it end in court?
Not a chance, there were three cars involved in the incident and yours was the one that caused the damage to the others.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff