Yet another Ebay rouge car Its NOT am Eagle!!
Discussion
Auction says car built on Citroen parts Ford rear suspension nothing like the car it is supposedly registered as -- an Eagle. On a Q plate!!
SEE
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EAGLEKITCAR-RED-/3207220...
And the seller thinks this is acceptable on the road. Plain DAFT.
I find the utter disregard for all the rules of vehicle registration quite challenging.
As I have said before be careful out there --- there are a LOT of incorrectly registered cars and they will get VOR'd and the buyer WILL face a huge bill for IVA and registration.
If in fact economic registration is possible at all!
SEE
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EAGLEKITCAR-RED-/3207220...
And the seller thinks this is acceptable on the road. Plain DAFT.
I find the utter disregard for all the rules of vehicle registration quite challenging.
As I have said before be careful out there --- there are a LOT of incorrectly registered cars and they will get VOR'd and the buyer WILL face a huge bill for IVA and registration.
If in fact economic registration is possible at all!
Steffan said:
Auction says car built on Citroen parts Ford rear suspension nothing like the car it is supposedly registered as -- an Eagle. On a Q plate!!
SEE
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EAGLEKITCAR-RED-/3207220...
And the seller thinks this is acceptable on the road. Plain DAFT.
I find the utter disregard for all the rules of vehicle registration quite challenging.
As I have said before be careful out there --- there are a LOT of incorrectly registered cars and they will get VOR'd and the buyer WILL face a huge bill for IVA and registration.
If in fact economic registration is possible at all!
You are wrong !SEE
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EAGLEKITCAR-RED-/3207220...
And the seller thinks this is acceptable on the road. Plain DAFT.
I find the utter disregard for all the rules of vehicle registration quite challenging.
As I have said before be careful out there --- there are a LOT of incorrectly registered cars and they will get VOR'd and the buyer WILL face a huge bill for IVA and registration.
If in fact economic registration is possible at all!
The car for sale is a Eagle + 2. This model was developed to give the company a broader appeal (!?).
With a targa roof and soft top it was cheaper to produce. It wasn't a commercial sucess.
There was a time before Q plates (and some time afterwards !)where kit cars were registered by the local DVLA office and each one seemed to have different procedures for identifying and namimg Kit Cars.
Some were left with the same name as the Donor but with a changed chassis number, others would be referrred to as Ford Special, Escort Convertable, Triumph Sports, or Similar, and the Kit Builders name could also be used. Utility Kits (Mini or Ford based) are often designated as "Utility 4x4" with a gross Vehicle Weight of 3500kgs !
Many Kitcars will have been registered in this way originally......but 20 years on the registration may appear strange, please don't assume that things are wrong......you should not accuse people unless you are certain.
I have no connection with this vehicle/person......but I have been interested in kitcars for over 30 years, and have owned/built quite a few.
The Nomad
parlettd said:
Steffan said:
Auction says car built on Citroen parts Ford rear suspension nothing like the car it is supposedly registered as -- an Eagle. On a Q plate!!
SEE
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EAGLEKITCAR-RED-/3207220...
And the seller thinks this is acceptable on the road. Plain DAFT.
I find the utter disregard for all the rules of vehicle registration quite challenging.
As I have said before be careful out there --- there are a LOT of incorrectly registered cars and they will get VOR'd and the buyer WILL face a huge bill for IVA and registration.
If in fact economic registration is possible at all!
You are wrong !SEE
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EAGLEKITCAR-RED-/3207220...
And the seller thinks this is acceptable on the road. Plain DAFT.
I find the utter disregard for all the rules of vehicle registration quite challenging.
As I have said before be careful out there --- there are a LOT of incorrectly registered cars and they will get VOR'd and the buyer WILL face a huge bill for IVA and registration.
If in fact economic registration is possible at all!
The car for sale is a Eagle + 2. This model was developed to give the company a broader appeal (!?).
With a targa roof and soft top it was cheaper to produce. It wasn't a commercial sucess.
There was a time before Q plates (and some time afterwards !)where kit cars were registered by the local DVLA office and each one seemed to have different procedures for identifying and namimg Kit Cars.
Some were left with the same name as the Donor but with a changed chassis number, others would be referrred to as Ford Special, Escort Convertable, Triumph Sports, or Similar, and the Kit Builders name could also be used. Utility Kits (Mini or Ford based) are often designated as "Utility 4x4" with a gross Vehicle Weight of 3500kgs !
Many Kitcars will have been registered in this way originally......but 20 years on the registration may appear strange, please don't assume that things are wrong......you should not accuse people unless you are certain.
I have no connection with this vehicle/person......but I have been interested in kitcars for over 30 years, and have owned/built quite a few.
The Nomad
If states Ford Cortina and the original chassis number then this is obviously wrong.
However, if the V5 reads Ford Cortina "Sports" or "Convertable" and the other numbers match, then its probably been registered that way when it was built.
I'd still be uncomfortable with this description.
I believe that there is still a scheme to amend the V5 of "incorrectly" registered vehicles.
However,to obtain the "correction" there has to be documentary evidence of the car being on the road originally, any available correspondance from the time of registration, and the vehicle has to be authenticated by an Independant party ....although this can be an Officer of the owners club.
Even then, I believe it a challenging process ! The scheme is designed to sort out the genuine cars.
Others may know more about this scheme.
Buyers should be confident of the description on the V5 when they are looking to buy a car.
Nomad
However, if the V5 reads Ford Cortina "Sports" or "Convertable" and the other numbers match, then its probably been registered that way when it was built.
I'd still be uncomfortable with this description.
I believe that there is still a scheme to amend the V5 of "incorrectly" registered vehicles.
However,to obtain the "correction" there has to be documentary evidence of the car being on the road originally, any available correspondance from the time of registration, and the vehicle has to be authenticated by an Independant party ....although this can be an Officer of the owners club.
Even then, I believe it a challenging process ! The scheme is designed to sort out the genuine cars.
Others may know more about this scheme.
Buyers should be confident of the description on the V5 when they are looking to buy a car.
Nomad
parlettd said:
If states Ford Cortina and the original chassis number then this is obviously wrong.
However, if the V5 reads Ford Cortina "Sports" or "Convertable" and the other numbers match, then its probably been registered that way when it was built.
I'd still be uncomfortable with this description.
I believe that there is still a scheme to amend the V5 of "incorrectly" registered vehicles.
However,to obtain the "correction" there has to be documentary evidence of the car being on the road originally, any available correspondance from the time of registration, and the vehicle has to be authenticated by an Independant party ....although this can be an Officer of the owners club.
Even then, I believe it a challenging process ! The scheme is designed to sort out the genuine cars.
Others may know more about this scheme.
Buyers should be confident of the description on the V5 when they are looking to buy a car.
Nomad
I entirely agree with this comment and thanks once again for the info re the Eagle.However, if the V5 reads Ford Cortina "Sports" or "Convertable" and the other numbers match, then its probably been registered that way when it was built.
I'd still be uncomfortable with this description.
I believe that there is still a scheme to amend the V5 of "incorrectly" registered vehicles.
However,to obtain the "correction" there has to be documentary evidence of the car being on the road originally, any available correspondance from the time of registration, and the vehicle has to be authenticated by an Independant party ....although this can be an Officer of the owners club.
Even then, I believe it a challenging process ! The scheme is designed to sort out the genuine cars.
Others may know more about this scheme.
Buyers should be confident of the description on the V5 when they are looking to buy a car.
Nomad
My researches suggest the description in the V5 of the Cortina is exactly as it was first registered. No indication of any change.
I agree there was a scheme with the DVLA to iron out inconsistencies with registration in the past but my experience is that the DVLA now push for IVA heavily in the event of a dispute.
My concern is that the prospective purchasers who are looking at these cars and may have sought such a purchase for years could unknowingly face unaffordable costs in getting the registration of a car corrected, if in fact it is at all possible. A number I have seen have been scrapped as beyond economic repair.
Dont forget the Eagle 2+2 was originally created to use cortina running parts onto a ladder chassis,(after the old SS was beetle then converted to Cortina) over the last 30 years as the car has probably been worked on many times parts may have been updated to differing vehicles donors for improvement purposes.How many kit owners when they do a rebuild keep to the original parts and dont look for "upgrades" .
What's wrong with this advert?
Q plate on a kit car - check
Described as "Eagle" - check (you can call your car whatever the maker called it even if there are twenty makers with the same name)
Described as Citroen and Ford components - check (presumably honest)
Where's the problem?
I would expect that the DVLA wouldn't care unless they saw a blatant mikey take, such as a Cobra registered as a Jaguar on the basis of suspension components, just so the owner could avoid a Q plate.
Forcing a retest could be a minefield, almost every kit build is different and almost every owner changes something. Where do you draw the line?
Q plate on a kit car - check
Described as "Eagle" - check (you can call your car whatever the maker called it even if there are twenty makers with the same name)
Described as Citroen and Ford components - check (presumably honest)
Where's the problem?
I would expect that the DVLA wouldn't care unless they saw a blatant mikey take, such as a Cobra registered as a Jaguar on the basis of suspension components, just so the owner could avoid a Q plate.
Forcing a retest could be a minefield, almost every kit build is different and almost every owner changes something. Where do you draw the line?
Pothole said:
where does the basic premise of caveat emptor sit in your mind in this situation?
I believe that the principle of Caveat Emptor still holds: however an online auction requires a high degree of care and accuracy in the description of the item particularly where the item is a complex vehicle.I appreciate that most cars are sold as seen by buyers at auctions. However unless the buyer is an expert, or a businessman trading in cars, then a car described as roadworthy and registered which subsequently proved unroadworthy and unregisterable at the time of sale could offer a cause of action against the seller to the buyer.
And serious difficulty in any event if registration proved economic which it frequently does not in these cases.
Perhaps I am overcautious but it does seem to me that Ebay is particularly popular with Kit Car sellers who seem unaware of the realities of accurate descriptions being essential on the V5.
What I think the OP is trying to achieve is laudable, however can he talk to the forum moderators about getting a sticky topic for reporting improperly registered cars.
By Steffan's rules I for one have an improperly registered car, which as far as the DVLA, police and my MOT station are concerned is entirely legal.
Two topics about the same subject on the same day is a little overkill.
By Steffan's rules I for one have an improperly registered car, which as far as the DVLA, police and my MOT station are concerned is entirely legal.
Two topics about the same subject on the same day is a little overkill.
t ? it's an awful thing that no one will want anyway
thescamper said:
What I think the OP is trying to achieve is laudable, however can he talk to the forum moderators about getting a sticky topic for reporting improperly registered cars.
By Steffan's rules I for one have an improperly registered car, which as far as the DVLA, police and my MOT station are concerned is entirely legal.
Two topics about the same subject on the same day is a little overkill.
he is clearly in a small minority of people who could care.By Steffan's rules I for one have an improperly registered car, which as far as the DVLA, police and my MOT station are concerned is entirely legal.
Two topics about the same subject on the same day is a little overkill.
@EFA - The thrust of your argument seems to be that the car has already been registered in the UK therefore DVLA only need minor notifications of changes whereas cars that have not been previously registered have a legal requirement to be subject to IVA.
The question then has to be at what point does a car become so substantially modified that it ceases to be the car that was previously registered and becomes something new and therefore previously unregistered? The IVA points system is, as I understand it, the measure of whether the resulting car is technically one deemed to be previously registered or not. It's provides a definition of the point at which the original registered car effectively ceases to exist and something new and not previously registered is created.
If the judge in a court case took the classic "man on clapham omnibus" approach in this respect i.e. this is the pic of the originally registered car and here (M'lud) is a picture of a shiney new cobra replica with entirely different braking system, suspension, engine, chassis etc. he'd conclude it is not the same car and therefore not previously registered - off to the IVA centre with you me lad! Admittedly simplistic view but you get my point. And from what has been said about incorrectly registered cars being taken off road permanently by police/DVLA it seems that this is the approach they are legitimately taking.
I've not seen the enabling legislation for the "previously not registered requires IVA" bit, but would be interested to see it.
I wish you good luck in the courts!
The question then has to be at what point does a car become so substantially modified that it ceases to be the car that was previously registered and becomes something new and therefore previously unregistered? The IVA points system is, as I understand it, the measure of whether the resulting car is technically one deemed to be previously registered or not. It's provides a definition of the point at which the original registered car effectively ceases to exist and something new and not previously registered is created.
If the judge in a court case took the classic "man on clapham omnibus" approach in this respect i.e. this is the pic of the originally registered car and here (M'lud) is a picture of a shiney new cobra replica with entirely different braking system, suspension, engine, chassis etc. he'd conclude it is not the same car and therefore not previously registered - off to the IVA centre with you me lad! Admittedly simplistic view but you get my point. And from what has been said about incorrectly registered cars being taken off road permanently by police/DVLA it seems that this is the approach they are legitimately taking.
I've not seen the enabling legislation for the "previously not registered requires IVA" bit, but would be interested to see it.
I wish you good luck in the courts!
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