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yellowbentines

Original Poster:

3,654 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
Hi all, hope someone can offer some useful advice.

My sister-in-law has a 2003 1.6 petrol Focus, the engine management light came on and the car is running very lumpy and rough - I recommended a mobile mechanic/diagnostic chap I've used in the past but he's just been and charged her to tell her it could either be a pnp or cpp switch (but he doesn't know where either of them are!), or the ecm - his advice was to just keep driving it until it stops working!

So PH faithful, any advice? I don't know what these switches are but if there's a likelihood it's one problem over any of the others and could be tackled by my modest DIY mechanic skills I'll find out how to replace the part for her and see if it does the job.

Jimmyarm

1,103 posts

64 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
Has he given her a list of the fault codes ?

Bear in mind there could be old stored codes on there that have nothing to do with the current problem.

yellowbentines

Original Poster:

3,654 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
Thanks, it was just the one fault code apprently, which is 1709, if that means anything or helps?

ETA which translates as "Park or Neutral Position Switch out of Self-Test Range", but doesn't help me find out where it is or how to replace it - or if indeed that precisely narrows down the problem as he did mention CPP switch and ECM also however only that code came up.


Edited by yellowbentines on Wednesday 27th July 13:00

Jimmyarm

1,103 posts

64 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
You need a new mechanic, that code is present on most fords iirc smile

With no meaningful codes it's hard to diagnose. Could be a vacuum leak, spray some brake cleaner around the engine bay and see if there is a change in the idle speed.


yellowbentines

Original Poster:

3,654 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
Hmm, that's what I found on a list of fault codes I found, it sounds like it narrows it down or do you think otherwise? Electrics/electronics isn't my think (as you can't hit them with a big lump hammer smile )

A bit of further searching suggests that as it's a manual it doesn't have a PNP but instead has a CPP - clutch pedal position switch - they're less than a tenner on ebay so I wonder if it's worth replacing or am I throwing money away here if it is a more generic fault code than the code guide suggests?
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Jimmyarm

1,103 posts

64 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
I'll double check with my encyclopedia when he gets back from the cake run but I am 99% positive that code appears on all non automatic fords of that era (as it doesn't have one).

If the guy did a self test of the systems and didn't hold the clutch pedal down this would generate a faultcode for the switch on our diagnostic equipment.

If its running rough and not generating any faultcodes specific to this (i.e. misfire cyclinder x etc) I would start with basics like are the plugs ok, are there any vacuum leaks etc before changing/testing any electrical bits.

Having said that, try disconnecting the MAF sensor and driving it and seeing if that makes any difference as well as the 'basics'.

Baz Tench

3,745 posts

76 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
The Coilpack or the MAF sensor would be the main two areas I would be concentrating on, given the symptoms.

yellowbentines

Original Poster:

3,654 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
Cheers, she had taken it to her normal backstreet mechanic also this morning, but he's strictly an 'oily bits' man, but she said he checked plugs and coil pack and they were fine, not sure if he would've checked for vaccuum leaks.

yellowbentines

Original Poster:

3,654 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
Baz Tench said:
The Coilpack or the MAF sensor would be the main two areas I would be concentrating on, given the symptoms.
Cleaning the MAF sensor is something within my limited mechanical capabilities, shall try later.

Any other suggestions warmly welcomed smile

yellowbentines

Original Poster:

3,654 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
BUMP for the knowledgeable evening crowd!

I've cranked the engine with the plugs out, all are sparking fine so it appears the coil, HT leads and plugs themselves aren't the problem.

Airfilter looks new and I cleaned the filter box out, removed the TPS and it is spotless, the IACV also got removed and looked ok, a little sooty but nothing major I wouldn't say. I didn't have the right torx bit to remove the MAF but will do that tomorrow.

The best way to describe the engine now I've heard it is an erratic idle, it can run fine for 5 seconds then shudders/dies for a second then picks back up again.

Any ideas folks?!

R1 CKY

4,668 posts

105 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
I had a 1999 1.8 Focus that did similar to what you describe, although not noticeable when driving and didn't bring on the EML.

The idle was quite rough and you could see the rev counter moving about.

There was a vacuum hose with a split in it. IIRC it ran from the right hand side of the block, under the coil pack and connected on to something near the throttle body around the back of the block.

I actually still have the new hose in my garage as I taped it up as a temporary fix and couldn't be arsed to change it!

yellowbentines

Original Poster:

3,654 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all
R1 CKY said:
I had a 1999 1.8 Focus that did similar to what you describe, although not noticeable when driving and didn't bring on the EML.

The idle was quite rough and you could see the rev counter moving about.

There was a vacuum hose with a split in it. IIRC it ran from the right hand side of the block, under the coil pack and connected on to something near the throttle body around the back of the block.

I actually still have the new hose in my garage as I taped it up as a temporary fix and couldn't be arsed to change it!
Cheers - how did you find the split, did you use the brake/carb cleaner method where you spray along all hoses until the idle changes, or was it easy enough to spot by eye?

The engine management light has gone off now, but the problem hasn't changed!

Jimmyarm

1,103 posts

64 months

[news] 
Wednesday 27th July 2011 quote quote all

Just spray it all over the shop smile

If the EML is not on and it's still idling erratically I would definately be looking for a split hose.

yellowbentines

Original Poster:

3,654 posts

93 months

[news] 
Friday 29th July 2011 quote quote all
Cheers for the help so far.

I've since discovered this 1.6 petrol engine doesn't have a MAF sensor, it has a MAP sensor which is located under the inlet manifold and appears like it can only be removed by firstly removing the alternator - I'm leaving that as a last resort.

On to checking for vacuum leaks - should I be using brake cleaner or carb cleaner (is either better and is either likely to cause any damage if it runs onto/into anything else?), and am I looking to hear the idle return to normal if and when I hit the leak, or should the revs drop or increase?

Thanks again chaps.

R1 CKY

4,668 posts

105 months

[news] 
Friday 29th July 2011 quote quote all
yellowbentines said:
Cheers - how did you find the split, did you use the brake/carb cleaner method where you spray along all hoses until the idle changes, or was it easy enough to spot by eye?

The engine management light has gone off now, but the problem hasn't changed!
I could actually hear it sucking air, just poked around at the pipes until the noise stopped.

I've not seen a 1.6 Engine Bay, I think it slightly different from the 1.8/2.0 so the hose may not be where I say it is.

yellowbentines

Original Poster:

3,654 posts

93 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th August 2011 quote quote all
Thread update/more advice desired!

I've ran the engine and sprayed carb cleaner everywhere, especially pipe connections and joints - nothing.

The engine is still rough - oddly its fine for the first minute or so after start-up when the choke is on, but once its off the engine "phut phuts", if that makes sense.

Any other ideas chaps, fueling system? I'm at a loss and my sister-in-law can't really afford to put it into a garage right now, I'm determined to get to the bottom of the problem!

ETA the engine management light is back on if that gives any further clue.

Edited by yellowbentines on Saturday 6th August 21:27

Joey Deacon

212 posts

62 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th August 2011 quote quote all
Lambda sensor?

I had this problem with my Ford Cougar. It would run fine when started from cold and would kangeroo down the road after about 30 seconds. This was because the car runs open loop from cold until the Lambda sensor is warm enough to take over.

New lambda sensor fitted and it has run perfectly ever since.

morgrp

3,412 posts

84 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th August 2011 quote quote all
Does she run it on st petrol?

ollie854

417 posts

48 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th August 2011 quote quote all
We had a 1.6 focus at work with same symptoms put a coil on it didnt fix it, no split hoses or anything in the end it was a burnt out valve.

yellowbentines

Original Poster:

3,654 posts

93 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th August 2011 quote quote all
Thanks JD, I'll look into the Lambda.

I'd thought about crap fuel, its always run on Esso from the same station, very busy station and I use it myself, never had any bother.
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