ZF 'Sealed for life' Autobox oil change
Discussion
So my Jaguar X350 has a 'sealed for life' ZF gearbox, which I believe is a very similar or common 6 speed auto gearbox fitted to quite a few bigger engined cars. So general consensus is that 'sealed for life' is true, if the life is 100k at 10 years, but a lot of sensible suggestions to change the oil at 60 or 70k. The oil is horrendously expensive, and draining and refilling is quite a specialist job as well.
Anyone had this done, I am not sure whether to use my usual Jaguar Indie, or find a specialist ZF gearbox service place .. I suppose better the devil you know etc. Got a feeling I'm looking at about a £300 bill . But cheaper than the £2k bill a mate got on a similar higher mileage car when the gearbox went bang.
Any experiences of this welcome
Anyone had this done, I am not sure whether to use my usual Jaguar Indie, or find a specialist ZF gearbox service place .. I suppose better the devil you know etc. Got a feeling I'm looking at about a £300 bill . But cheaper than the £2k bill a mate got on a similar higher mileage car when the gearbox went bang.
Any experiences of this welcome
Further reading for you
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Me I prefer a DIY approach but I like knowing it's done properly and other than the german mob I'd want to be really sure before I took a car to anyone else
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Me I prefer a DIY approach but I like knowing it's done properly and other than the german mob I'd want to be really sure before I took a car to anyone else
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by B'stard Child on Monday 1st August 23:24
I was going to compare the reply service from the British & German operation, Brits were first to reply from the email address shown on their website;
"This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
customerservice.zfgb@zf.com"
"This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
customerservice.zfgb@zf.com"
rswift said:
I was going to compare the reply service from the British & German operation, Brits were first to reply from the email address shown on their website;
"This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
customerserviceDOTzfgb@zfDOTcom"
Probably the level of spam they get when email addresses are public and written on forums "This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
customerserviceDOTzfgb@zfDOTcom"
I did mine myself on my last car. It wasn't that tough even though I'm not really a spannerman. That was a bmw 540i, not sure how similar it is to yours to be honest, but that was a sealed for life system too. Just do your research online and crack out the spanners! At least you know you've done it right if you do it yourself.
I am reasonably handy with the spanners, done a least one engine swap, head gaskets, clutch etc .. but I think to do the job properly I need to get the Jag's back end quite high at the back end, which I'm not sure I can do, and then all I will have achieved is a partial oil change .. but the amount of detail I saw in the BMW gearbox service, and the prospect of a quick jaunt across europe is quite tempting. 900 mile round trip for me, on LPG :-) will cost about £100 (V8 4.2, oh yes it will at cruising speed) , and a cheap ferry crossing.
I think my Jaguar Indie, who I have been using for 10 years or so will do a fine job of an oil change, but I reckon £200 more might see a gearbox that will outlast the car (might be getting carried away here). To put into context, my previous old school 1995 X300 was sold on at 325,00 miles, on it's original gearbox oil, ATF I assume .. still running a treat, and as far as I know still is.
Progress ??
I think my Jaguar Indie, who I have been using for 10 years or so will do a fine job of an oil change, but I reckon £200 more might see a gearbox that will outlast the car (might be getting carried away here). To put into context, my previous old school 1995 X300 was sold on at 325,00 miles, on it's original gearbox oil, ATF I assume .. still running a treat, and as far as I know still is.
Progress ??
Gerabox oil changes were dropped from Jaguar servicing schedules on the introduction of the V8 engine and ZF or Mercedes 5 speed gearboxes fitted to the previous generation XJ and XK.
Although the oil specified - Esso LT71141 - for the non supercharged cars was technically superior to the bog standard Dexron 3 usually found in auto 'boxes the supercharged versions used a stronger Mercedes gearbox. That was filled with Dexron 3 and was also sealed for life.
There is no good technical reason why this practice is acceptable and there have been a spate of either complete gearbox failures or long history of poor change quality, noise and premature wear. Some boxes have failed at no more than 60k. The only reason I can think of is cost, Jaguar just like any other manufacturer was desperate to reduce the headline cost of servicing at purchase, hence the sealed for life gearboxes and differentials.
The sump and filter are an intregal unit in the X350 and the specification calles for Shell M1375.4 oil. Both of which are expensive. Access to the filler plug is tricky and getting the oil level correct - there's no dipstick - is a bit of a challenge. You could DIY - I've changed the 'box oil twice on my X308 - and the procedure is very similar on the later cars, but if you have a good Indy I'd suggest you let them do it for you.
Your call - either a few hundred quid and peace of mind now or maybe at sometime in the future a ride home on the back of a tow truck and a big bill for a new gearbox.
Although the oil specified - Esso LT71141 - for the non supercharged cars was technically superior to the bog standard Dexron 3 usually found in auto 'boxes the supercharged versions used a stronger Mercedes gearbox. That was filled with Dexron 3 and was also sealed for life.
There is no good technical reason why this practice is acceptable and there have been a spate of either complete gearbox failures or long history of poor change quality, noise and premature wear. Some boxes have failed at no more than 60k. The only reason I can think of is cost, Jaguar just like any other manufacturer was desperate to reduce the headline cost of servicing at purchase, hence the sealed for life gearboxes and differentials.
The sump and filter are an intregal unit in the X350 and the specification calles for Shell M1375.4 oil. Both of which are expensive. Access to the filler plug is tricky and getting the oil level correct - there's no dipstick - is a bit of a challenge. You could DIY - I've changed the 'box oil twice on my X308 - and the procedure is very similar on the later cars, but if you have a good Indy I'd suggest you let them do it for you.
Your call - either a few hundred quid and peace of mind now or maybe at sometime in the future a ride home on the back of a tow truck and a big bill for a new gearbox.
B'stard Child said:
OdramaSwimLaden said:
About as good as my Getrag sealed for life gearbox on my old e39 M5, the synchromesh for 4th went after 30k miles and you need a new box. £6k fitted. It was 6 years ago and just out of warranty!
Wow synchros on an Auto - BMW were clever sods
Jaguar steve said:
Gerabox oil changes were dropped from Jaguar servicing. There is no good technical reason why this practice is acceptable and there have been a spate of either complete gearbox failures or long history of poor change quality, noise and premature wear. Some boxes have failed at no more than 60k. The only reason I can think of is cost, Jaguar just like any other manufacturer was desperate to reduce the headline cost of servicing at purchase, hence the sealed for life gearboxes and differentials.
That's one of the PH myths, because in reality a gearbox with knackered fluid is very likely to be a knackered gearbox.Auto's hate being overheated so a transmission with cooked fluid is a transmission that's been abused. Unlike with an engine any bits of gunk and metal in the fluid can only be bits of transmission.
Jaguar steve said:
Your call - either a few hundred quid and peace of mind now or maybe at sometime in the future a ride home on the back of a tow truck and a big bill for a new gearbox.
A properly carried out "precautionary" fluid and filter change at or after 10yrs/100,000 miles seems to make sense, especially since it only costs a fraction the price of a transmission rebuild, let alone a new transmission. However, new fluid will never fix a knackered transmission!Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff