A little help with a leaking wastepipe please
Discussion
Evening all
At the weekend having looked up at the ceiling and noticing what appeared to be a damp patch it suddenly dawned on us that the upstairs toilet was leaking as it had before.Last time about 3yrs ago as the house was brand new we got a plumber in to repair the leaking soil pipe so we were hoping this wasnt the problem again.Sadly this is the same problem but I want to fix it myself mainly to save money but also to know its been done (hopefully) properly.
I have tried to temporarily make a repair using sealant but this is not working and its not a proper fix.I remember the plumber saying it was a right bstard to fix I think because the wastepipe is not quite long enough to locate fully around the waste on the toilet pan.I wish I had been more vigilant but assumed the guy knew what he was doing.Anyway its my problem now I have to deal with it. I was thinking of going for a 90 degree flexi pipe which I am hoping will be a little longer but any advice appreciated.
Looking at the pan which as you can see is concealed (not by choice). I guess I will also have to remove the lower tiles but the toilet doesnt seem to be screwed to the floor ?
Soil pipe you can just see the 90 degree elbow at the bottom
Looking down at the elbow itself
The elbow meeting the waste from the toilet pan.Not sure what the black & white parts are coming out of the elbow.The leak obviously seems to be coming from the join between the toilet and elbow.
At the weekend having looked up at the ceiling and noticing what appeared to be a damp patch it suddenly dawned on us that the upstairs toilet was leaking as it had before.Last time about 3yrs ago as the house was brand new we got a plumber in to repair the leaking soil pipe so we were hoping this wasnt the problem again.Sadly this is the same problem but I want to fix it myself mainly to save money but also to know its been done (hopefully) properly.
I have tried to temporarily make a repair using sealant but this is not working and its not a proper fix.I remember the plumber saying it was a right bstard to fix I think because the wastepipe is not quite long enough to locate fully around the waste on the toilet pan.I wish I had been more vigilant but assumed the guy knew what he was doing.Anyway its my problem now I have to deal with it. I was thinking of going for a 90 degree flexi pipe which I am hoping will be a little longer but any advice appreciated.
Looking at the pan which as you can see is concealed (not by choice). I guess I will also have to remove the lower tiles but the toilet doesnt seem to be screwed to the floor ?
Soil pipe you can just see the 90 degree elbow at the bottom
Looking down at the elbow itself
The elbow meeting the waste from the toilet pan.Not sure what the black & white parts are coming out of the elbow.The leak obviously seems to be coming from the join between the toilet and elbow.
you need a new pan connector.take the black pipe out and throw it away.thats the problem..
you need to but a new piece of pipe the same as the grey stuff.cut about 6 inches and push it into the grey elbow.puch your pan connector into your new pipe then push your toilet into your pan connector till it fully goes on.job done
you need to but a new piece of pipe the same as the grey stuff.cut about 6 inches and push it into the grey elbow.puch your pan connector into your new pipe then push your toilet into your pan connector till it fully goes on.job done
mart77 said:
you need a new pan connector.take the black pipe out and throw it away.thats the problem..
you need to but a new piece of pipe the same as the grey stuff.cut about 6 inches and push it into the grey elbow.puch your pan connector into your new pipe then push your toilet into your pan connector till it fully goes on.job done
Thanks Mart so the pan connector is the white part on the left in the last pic ?you need to but a new piece of pipe the same as the grey stuff.cut about 6 inches and push it into the grey elbow.puch your pan connector into your new pipe then push your toilet into your pan connector till it fully goes on.job done
Is it all push fit or will I need any sealent and I assume wastepipe is a standard diameter ?
Edited by macp on Tuesday 20th September 20:50
As has been said,the pipe that looks black should be a short piece of grey, but this would be glued into the grey elbow. How is that piece fixed in? is the leak between the pan and the white connector, the connector and the black pipe or the black pipe to the grey elbow?
Have you checked that it's not either end of the pipe from the cistern that's leaking when you flush, drippng down onto the grey pipe then onto the floor?
Have you checked that it's not either end of the pipe from the cistern that's leaking when you flush, drippng down onto the grey pipe then onto the floor?
yes mate the white bit is the pan connector.take it all apart and have a look inside the grey elbow.it should have a black rubber in it.check the rubber hasnt perished....
all of the joints are pushfit mate.
another thing to check is that there is a 'fall' on the pipes going away from the toilet because if there isnt,the water wil sit in the pipes and eventually leak through the rubber joints
all of the joints are pushfit mate.
another thing to check is that there is a 'fall' on the pipes going away from the toilet because if there isnt,the water wil sit in the pipes and eventually leak through the rubber joints
mgtony said:
As has been said,the pipe that looks black should be a short piece of grey, but this would be glued into the grey elbow. How is that piece fixed in? is the leak between the pan and the white connector, the connector and the black pipe or the black pipe to the grey elbow?
Have you checked that it's not either end of the pipe from the cistern that's leaking when you flush, drippng down onto the grey pipe then onto the floor?
The leak definitely feels like its between the pan and the white connector and is quite a gush of water but only when flushed.I can feel dried sealent around the connector so he obviously had some problems trying to get it to seal. Have you checked that it's not either end of the pipe from the cistern that's leaking when you flush, drippng down onto the grey pipe then onto the floor?
BliarOut said:
Are the sealing rings available separately? I've got to replace a holed close coupled pan shortly (don't ask!) and I don't like reusing seals.
The pipes and connectors seem pretty cheap so I would guess the seals arent available seperately.Going back and thinking about it I guess I will have to knock out the tiles right down to the floor to gain access.Toilet doesnt seem like its bolted down.
Does this apply when you refit like for like?
TESTING
All newly installed
soil stacks should be
tested in accordance
with Part H of the
Building Regulations
(contact your Local
Authority for advice).
An air test should be
carried out using
a ‘U’ gauge.
A Building Control
Officer should
witness this process.
The equipment can
be hired from a
hire shop.
NOTE: Make sure your soil stack will
pass the required test before asking the
Building Control Officer to visit, this will
save you a lot of time and effort.
TEST PROCEDURE
The water seals in all sanitary appliances
should be filled and test plugs or bags put
into the open ends of the pipework to be
tested. One of the test plugs should be fitted
with a tee piece. One branch of the tee
goes via a flexible hose to the ‘U’ gauge;
the other branch has a hose that goes to a
small hand pump. Air is pumped into the soil
pipe until a pressure of 38mm water gauge
is obtained. The pressure must remain
constant for not less than three minutes.
If the system is not pressure tight, pump
in more air while someone applies soapy
water to the joints. Bubbles will form when
a badly assembled joint is detected.
TESTING
All newly installed
soil stacks should be
tested in accordance
with Part H of the
Building Regulations
(contact your Local
Authority for advice).
An air test should be
carried out using
a ‘U’ gauge.
A Building Control
Officer should
witness this process.
The equipment can
be hired from a
hire shop.
NOTE: Make sure your soil stack will
pass the required test before asking the
Building Control Officer to visit, this will
save you a lot of time and effort.
TEST PROCEDURE
The water seals in all sanitary appliances
should be filled and test plugs or bags put
into the open ends of the pipework to be
tested. One of the test plugs should be fitted
with a tee piece. One branch of the tee
goes via a flexible hose to the ‘U’ gauge;
the other branch has a hose that goes to a
small hand pump. Air is pumped into the soil
pipe until a pressure of 38mm water gauge
is obtained. The pressure must remain
constant for not less than three minutes.
If the system is not pressure tight, pump
in more air while someone applies soapy
water to the joints. Bubbles will form when
a badly assembled joint is detected.
Buy yourself a new pan connector, some 4 inch pipe and some silicone lubricant spray or grease.
The pan connector is designed to fit snugly inside 4 inch pipe, not inside the socket of a 4 inch fitting.
Cut a piece of 4 inch pipe long enough for the pan connector to fit inside and obviously that it fits inside the elbow.
Chamfer the edge of the pipe that goes into the elbow using a file. Use plenty of silicone spray or grease on all rubber seals and push all together.
You do not need to use any sort of sealant on pushfit waste pipes.
The pan connector is designed to fit snugly inside 4 inch pipe, not inside the socket of a 4 inch fitting.
Cut a piece of 4 inch pipe long enough for the pan connector to fit inside and obviously that it fits inside the elbow.
Chamfer the edge of the pipe that goes into the elbow using a file. Use plenty of silicone spray or grease on all rubber seals and push all together.
You do not need to use any sort of sealant on pushfit waste pipes.
mart77 said:
you need a new pan connector.take the black pipe out and throw it away.thats the problem..
you need to but a new piece of pipe the same as the grey stuff.cut about 6 inches and push it into the grey elbow.puch your pan connector into your new pipe then push your toilet into your pan connector till it fully goes on.job done
But the black pipe is soil pipe. It comes in more than just grey... So you'd be taking it out to then buy a new bit!? If it's long enough, it's fine.you need to but a new piece of pipe the same as the grey stuff.cut about 6 inches and push it into the grey elbow.puch your pan connector into your new pipe then push your toilet into your pan connector till it fully goes on.job done
Basicly, they've made a low level toilet setup more pretty by hiding the cistern in the wall. Quite often done.
I don't think you'll need to take the toilet out. If you do, there should be screws mid way along each side facing in or down. Quite often toilet pans are siliconed down if pipes/ underfloor heating are an unknown in the floor. Cut around the base and rear of pan with a Stanley knife if needed.
You can buy new pan connectors of many different lengths, offsets and angles. Rigid and flexible/ extendible varieties. It looks like you just need a short straight pan connector. Attach to the toilet. Measure back to the insert depth of the soil pipe elbow and cut some soil pipe to length. The bit you have may be an okay length. Pan connectors need to be inserted into soil pipe (or a cap) and can't be inserted into the push fit elbow themselves.
I recently fitted a Wickes toilet to go (?) where the exit pipe from the toilet was quite short. Pain in the are.
That elbow is a solvent weld fitting. Any talk of push-fitting and rubber seals is b
ks. As above, the colour of that soil pipe isn't important...
DON'T fit ANY flexible pan connectors. They are st and WILL leak AND rot.
Just do it properly. Entended straight pan connector into black soil. Check that soil has been glued into the elbow.
ks. As above, the colour of that soil pipe isn't important...DON'T fit ANY flexible pan connectors. They are s
t and WILL leak AND rot. Just do it properly. Entended straight pan connector into black soil. Check that soil has been glued into the elbow.
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