help needed with DVLA

[big bloke]

In january i sold a car and posted off the log book, when i didn't receive confirmation i called the DVLA who said i needed to write in again, which i did.

once again no confirmation was sent, so i emailed DVLA and told them that way, they sent a reply saying they can't accept emails as proof and i needed to write in yet again.
after writing in a total of 5 times i gave up due to circumstances in my personal life.

today i have received a letter asking me to attend court for not informing them of change of keeper.

what do i do now? i wrote 5 times, and find it very hard to belive they never received any of the letters, with hind sight i should have sent it recorded, but it's a bit late for that now

[daz3210]

Have you got the email reply you got and copies of the letters?

If so turn up at court and show them.

Due diligance is the watchword I believe.

[Kevin VRs]

Do you have copies of all the letters you sent? If so, send more copies by Special Delivery (costs about £5) complete with a copy of their letters. Hopefully this should sort it. Did you keep a copy of the V5? If so, also send a copy of that.

[big bloke]

I have the e mails, but not the letters

[saaby93]

Theres a thread somewhere showing that you have to state that you posted it. You dont have to prove that with copies etc, just some notes or recollection should do. They'll counter by saying that they didnt receive at which point you ask how many letters they lose in their system each year - that was listed in the thread too.
Recorded only proves that you posted an envelope, not what was in it. It travels in normal post and they dont have to sign for it their end. It can be received without a signing or not received at all.

[daz3210]

saaby93 said:

Theres a thread somewhere showing that you have to state that you posted it. You dont have to prove that with copies etc, just some notes or recollection should do. They'll counter by saying that they didnt receive at which point you ask how many letters they lose in their system each year - that was listed in the thread too.
Recorded only proves that you posted an envelope, not what was in it. It travels in normal post and they dont have to sign for it their end. It can be received without a signing or not received at all.

Recorded usually results in a signature recording delivery to the address.

Is there not something somewhere allied to the NIP system which means that posting by normal post is now accepted as due service. Could that not be used in support of a case of this type?

[skinley]

Yet more proof, if any were needed, that the DVLA are a bunch of pricks.

[nigel_bytes]

Credable verbal evidence in my opinion is all thats needed.
They still refuse to accept the interpretations act, Perhaps the supreme court should decide if the act is worthless ?

[SS2.]

Have a read of this (for instance), you might find some useful pointers..

A fundamental difference with the OP's case, however, is that he did contact the DVLA upon non-receipt of their acknowledgement.

Edited by SS2. on Thursday 27th October 14:06

[daz3210]

nigel_bytes said:

Credable verbal evidence in my opinion is all thats needed.
They still refuse to accept the interpretations act, Perhaps the supreme court should decide if the act is worthless ?

The letter from DVLA says all you need to know.

The acknowledgement letter is not required in legislation.

The OP has gone beyond what is actually required it seems. He sent the notification, didn't receive a letter that he is not actually required in legislation to receive, but still took a number of further steps to ensure he had complied with requirements, and even got an email response to one of those steps, albeit not exactly what is requested.

I would expect any court to consider whether the OP had done WHAT IS REQUIRED IN LEGISLATION, and rule accordingly.

[Dwight VanDriver]

Reg 22 Road Vehicles (Reg and Lic) Regs 2002 only states that DCVLA has to be notifioed of a change in accordance with that stated on Reg Document. It does not stipulate how it has to be posted/sent or that any follow up is required.

If 22 is complied with then law satisfied.

Take heed also of what Section 7 Interpretation Act states as mentioned above.

Recently came across a case where old owner on a change had been sent a 'fine' by DVLA becaise they had no record of the change which he was adamant he had done. I queried with DVLA their authority and they stated it was an 'out of Court settlement' to save it going to Court.

My reply to them:

"'Whereas the The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2003 authorises by statute, the imposition of an 80 pound supplement in relation to late taxation of a vehicle, there is (IMHO) no corresponding statutory authority for DVLA to impose a 'fine' for failing to notify change of ownership and for any penalty to be paid in respect of this offence it has to be imposed after a conviction of Guilt by a Magistrates Court.

I appreciate that DVLA appear to be offering an 'out of Court settlement' in some cases where the law has been complied with but DVLA records are at fault for not properley recording and thereby browbeating the receipient into accepting rather than entering a Not Guilty plea at Court and no fine."

From what stated I would tell them to run it at Court and that a Not Guilty plea will be entered. Be prepared to fight you case.

dvd

[saaby93]

Here's the watchdog link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2010/05/dvla_i...
previously posted in the no MOT thread

[voyds9]

It could be interesting to ask them why when you have informed them of a change of keeper they have not update their records as this appears to be a breach of DPA.

[nigel_bytes]

The DVLA have been sending in bailiffs and repossessing cars; fine if drivers have broken the rules. But some haven't. Victoria Derbyshire investigates further for Watchdog.
Thursday, 29 September 2011

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2011/09/sorn.h...

[Jasandjules]

big bloke said:

once again no confirmation was sent, so i emailed DVLA and told them that way, they sent a reply saying they can't accept emails as proof and i needed to write in yet again.
after writing in a total of 5 times i gave up due to circumstances in my personal life.

today i have received a letter asking me to attend court for not informing them of change of keeper.

what do i do now? i wrote 5 times, and find it very hard to belive they never received any of the letters, with hind sight i should have sent it recorded, but it's a bit late for that now

I think you want to write to the DVLA, advising them of the above and inviting them to withdraw their case, a failure to do so will result in your making a costs application if you win your claim, which you respectfully submit is beyond doubt, you having satisfied the requirements of the Act.

I would also invite them to provide a detailed account, by way of an affidavit from their legal advisors, as to why an e-mail is not an accepted means of communications. Invite such an affidavit to expressly refer to the Civil Procedure Rules.

Send that both by e-mail AND by recorded delivery.....

[englisharcher]

Update.

I wrote to DVLA and told them I was going not guilty, and quoted a lot of the stuff from the linked threads. But they decided to take it to court anyway.

Today I got to court, and they asked how I was pleading.

When I told them not guilt, they again asked why. As soon as I started talking about the interpretation act, they decided to withdraw the case.

Thanks for all your help guys.

Edited by englisharcher on Wednesday 7th December 12:41

[englisharcher]

Should have said, I've changed my user name since my original post

[SS2.]

Well done for seeing it through..

And what a waste of time and resources by DVLA..

[saaby93]

SS2. said:

Well done for seeing it through..
And what a waste of time and resources by DVLA..

+1

Flagged this and your linked thread SS2 as a possible FAQ/sticky

[Toltec]

Can you and are you going to claim costs?