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Trax

Original Poster:

945 posts

115 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
We are after a bit of help with regard to our attempts to return a faulty jumper that the wife bought. I have copied the email between us and the online supplier, which I hope is somewhat self explanatory.

For clarification though, the garment is a pullover type jumper, which has a zip at the side of the neck, which goes towards the top of the arm, and is about four inches long.

When trying on, my wife opened this, thinking it would be easier to put on. Once on she tried to pull up the zip, which came back up to the neck, but did not close the zip, i.e. it is now open with the zipper at the top, which refuses to move.

We emailed the supplier to find out how to return, which was the day after we received it, but they are refusing any return, replacement or repair of the item.

The email is below. There is a little confusion as my wife sent the first email, and I continued the replies at work, on my iPhone, which doesn't help trying to get the right message across. I was also not aware that she had worn it for a few hours. Though on receipt of the damaged item back, it does not look like it has been worn, i.e. no makeup on the neck, or creases.

Email said:
On 16 Oct 2011, at 13:03, XXXXX wrote:

Hi
I've just ordered a d006 fuchsia sequin sweatshirt & whilst trying on the jumper the zip would not undo it will not close or open.
Can you please exchange with the same jumper with a zip that's not faulty .
Can you let me know how I need to return for the exchange.
Thank you in advance

Sent from my iPad

From: XXXX
Subject: Re: Ref order 21359
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:56:38 +0100
To:

Hi XXXXX,

Thanks for your email.

With regards to the zip on your jumper, it is only decorative feature and not to be worn open, although it is made using a functioning zip. The reason its probably not opening or closing is because of the where the zip is placed on the garment that is why it was designed as only a decorative function. You need to be able to grip both ends of the fabric and pull it to open it and also when closing to grip the top end of the joint where its meant to end and then pull the zipper. I am telling you this but you won't need to open it. It states on the web site there is a 'zip detail with a Day 22 logo on zip puller' Hence it says 'zip detail'. It is not a functioning zip and you can see from all the photo's none of the models or celebrities have worn it open and I don't know anyone in our office who has undone the zip and worn it open.

You can send the item back to us and we would quite happily inspect but if we deem its not faulty and return it to you then we will have to re-charge you for delivery.

Kind Regards

Jasmine
Customer Service Manager

On 16 Oct 2011, at 22:25, XXXXXXX wrote:

Thank you for confirming the zipper should be closed, and not open, which is as we want. The problem is that it is stuck open and will not close.
We have tried to close the zipper as you described, but it does not close. We will return the garment for repair or replacement.
I am not sure why you refer to pictures not showing the zip open, and the website saying the zip is decorative, we never suggested it should be used open, we just want it as per your pictures, and as you suggest.

On 18 Oct 2011, at 10:50, XXXXXXXXX wrote:
Dear XXXXX,

Thank you for your email.

With regards to the item you have returned to us claiming a product fault. We have inspected the item and also had an independent person with professional knowledge of garment technology conclude that the item returned is not faulty. It was concluded that force was used to close the zipper which then has damaged the puller causing it to come off on one side.
This garment was sent out to you in perfect condition with no faults which we have evidence of.
We are therefore returning the garment back to you recorded delivery.
If you require further information regarding this matter, please get in contact.

Kind Regards

June
Customer Service Team

On 18 Oct 2011, at 12:41, XXXXXX wrote:

June,

Please do not return this item if it is still faulty. The zip has not been forced, and the garment has not even been worn. You confirmed that whilst the zip is a decorative piece, it uses a functioning zip. Clearly, the zip is not fit for purpose if it cannot be opened once whilst trying on the garment.
There were no instructions with the garment to say do not use the zip.
The sales of goods act says goods must be 'of satisfactory quality' and 'fit for purpose'. This is clearly not the case.
We don't want a refund or a faulty item, just a garment which can be worn as shown in the description.
The sales of goods act states that if you refuse to repair or replace the goods, we have a right to arrange for someone else to repair it, and claim compensation from the retailer for this, through court if necessary.
We would rather not have to do this, and would prefer your 'garment technology expert' to fix the supposedly functioning zip, and return so we can use the garment as described.
It is clear from the communication from our initial enquiry that you had no intention of helping us with our issue, which for a large retailer is hard to believe, the service so far has been totally unsatisfactory. If we had known how poor your customer service is, we would not have ordered further products from you.
In summary, the zip has not been forced, and was opened once when trying it on. This is either poor quality or the product is not fit for purpose, I find it very hard to believe you can not repair the faulty zip, on the unused product.

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Oct 2011, at 13:08, XXXXXXX wrote:
Dear XXXXXX,

Thank you for your response.

In reference to your email, although we have pointed out to you the purpose of the zip detail being decorative we have used a functioning quality zip for which we have used in all productions and not had any faults with them.

Thank you for pointing out the sales of goods act, which we are aware of, however the item went out to you 'fit for purpose' and of 'satisfactory quality', which we have evidence of.

As we said we had a second opinion on the product so as not to be biased and their conclusion is that force was used causing the damage to the zip. Please do not suggest in your email that the product was unworn when it shows markings and signs of wear.

Your item has been sent back to you today.

Kind Regards

June
Customer Service Team
On 18 Oct 2011, at 13:24, XXXXXXX wrote:

June,
I apologise for saying the item had not been worn, I did not know my wife had worn it once. However, your sarcastic comment just sums up your customer service.
Whilst the garment might have been working when it was sent, the fact it does not work after one use indicates it is not fit for purpose, are you suggesting it is only worn once?
We will have the garment looked at by someone properly independent, and if faulty have it repaired and pursue costs through the small claims court.
Your 'help', sarcasm, and attitude has been totally discussing, you really need help on customer service.
Please can you provide detailed of who I can complain to in regard to this, or details of the director so I can write to them direct.
Thank you for your help!

Sent from my iPhone

From: XXXXXXX
Subject: Re: Ref order 21359
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:41:35 +0100
To: XXXXXXXX

Hi there,

Referring back to your email, as we stated we do understand the item has to be 'fit for purpose' but you are sending confusing messages with regards to the product and its use.

You first stated in your email dated 16th Oct 'whilst trying on the jumper the zip would not undo it will not close or open"

Then in todays email you stated 'on the unused product' and now you are saying it has 'I apologise for saying the item had not been worn'. Regardless of its use, we do understand it has to be of 'satisfactory quality' which the product was when it was sent out to you.

If you wish to make any complaints then please write to the address below marked 'Customer Service'

Kind Regards

June
Customer Service Team
Any help would be appreciated. We are unsure what to do next, or if it is worth submitting a claim via the small claims court. The item is only woth £50, but the way they have handled it has 'proper' got my back up. We could also just get the zip repaired, which would likley be only pounds, and if thats the case I am sure it would not be worth claiming for a few pounds.

I just can not understand their belligerence in totally refusing to deal with the issue, or even repair it themselves, rather than just sending it back faulty.

Sorry for the long post, any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.


Meoricin

2,606 posts

52 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Get the payment reversed.

5lab

1,400 posts

79 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
distance selling regs apply here. if its within 28 days and 'new' condition, you're within your rights to sell it back as you 'don't like it'

catman

1,065 posts

58 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
As far as I am aware, distance selling regulations mean that you can return an item for any reason for a full refund.

Their excuse that it was of satisfactory quality when it left them also won't wash. If the zip is a working one that has failed on its first use, then that's their problem.

I'm amazed that a major supplier would take this attitude though.

Tim

Snowboy

7,933 posts

34 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all

Now, I'd be arguing that's it's a bloody zip, why's it on there if it's not supposed to open.
It not like anyone sells trousers with zips that don't work or hoodies with zips that should be used as jumpers.
A zip on the collar of a jumper implies it can be opened.

Sure, the models in the adverts might show the zip closed, but I'm guessing the models wearing trousers also have their zips closed.

If the jumper collar was a solid piece of fabric with the zip sewn on top I'd say it was decorative, but if the fabric is separated and the zip sewn in the gap I'd say that's it's a functional zip.

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singlecoil

19,816 posts

129 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Sounds like the customer sevice department person has decided to take a position on this, and, having done so, isn't going to budge until forced to. Looks like you will have to pursude them through small claims, or whatever the correct procedure is, if it isn't that. No point in continuing to argue with them.

Broccers

2,883 posts

136 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Id agree with the above - speak to someone else there with a bit of a clue other than being an angry person.

Trax

Original Poster:

945 posts

115 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Thanks for the replies so far. It's does appear they decided to take the stance from the first email, before we had returned the item.

To return it under the distance selling regs, is there any specific way to do this? I would expect any further return of it to them will result in it being sent straight back, and them trying to bill us for postage. They are sticking to we damaged it, which is why they are saying it was forced, so their stance is we broke it - tough.

Don't think we can charge back either, as it was done with a Visa Debit, not credit.

I thinking small claims, but what would we claim for? Full item price, as it's not fit for purpose?

It doesn't appear they are a large retailer, don't want to name and shame, however their website has the number after 21 in it, and the there are seven of the other word in a week.

Dr Doofenshmirtz

8,083 posts

83 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
What a load of bks...shame you can't name the retailer.
Go on - give us a [better] clue?

CatJ

9,337 posts

126 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Yes I'd be interested to know who the retailer is. I had a pull on a tunic recently I'd bought from next and I really thought because I'd worn it they would say no. I couldn't have been more wrong, they sent out a new one, collected the faulty one and oddly enough sent me a full refund.

Trax

Original Poster:

945 posts

115 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
To find the retailer, just google 'the three letter word of which there are seven of in a week', and the 'numerical number which comes after 21'.

That's the name of the the website, and it comes up first.

PurpleMoonlight

2,486 posts

40 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Your correspondence clearly shows that you have made a reasonable complaint under the Sale of Goods act, so I think you should stick with that rather than trying to swap to the Distance Selling Regulations.

Under the SOGA the retailer would have to prove you damaged the jumper. They are very unlikely to be able to do that to the satisfaction of a judge.

Advise them that they have 14 days to suppy a new replacement or a full refund (including all your postage costs) or you will seek redress via the County Court.

By the way, some visa debit cards can charge back ....

Mill Wheel

5,417 posts

79 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
What a load of bks...shame you can't name the retailer.
Go on - give us a [better] clue?
The company put their logo on the garments - in this case via the zipper.
[quote]'zip detail with a Day 22 logo on zip puller'

singlecoil

19,816 posts

129 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Perhaps it's Jordan herself who is sending the 'unhelpful' emails?

zcacogp

10,850 posts

127 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Your correspondence clearly shows that you have made a reasonable complaint under the Sale of Goods act, so I think you should stick with that rather than trying to swap to the Distance Selling Regulations.

Under the SOGA the retailer would have to prove you damaged the jumper. They are very unlikely to be able to do that to the satisfaction of a judge.

Advise them that they have 14 days to suppy a new replacement or a full refund (including all your postage costs) or you will seek redress via the County Court.
This.

And let us know in this thread when they have swallowed their pride, manned-up and refunded you.


Oli.

escie

1,120 posts

40 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Distance sellin regs pack it up post it. You can request a refund now before you even post it smile

PurpleMoonlight

2,486 posts

40 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
escie said:
Distance sellin regs pack it up post it. You can request a refund now before you even post it smile
Read thread before posting!

wolf1

2,616 posts

133 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Unless I'm blind, where does it state on their website that the zip is for decorative purposes only and should not be used?

Taken from site:-

About this product

Super soft sweatshirt with Fuchsia Sequin '22' on the front adding a glitzy look to your wardrobe. Gold 'Day 22' zip detail on the neckline. This sweatshirt is one of our best selling designs due to the brushed fabric and with added elastane making it comfortable as well as stylish.

97% Cotton 3% Elastane

7db

5,947 posts

113 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Trading standards are very keen to chat about refusals under SoGA and Distance Selling. Suggest speaking with them.

Also if paid on credit card your card supplier is jointly liable for the product's supply - you can require them to accept the return instead.

zx10ben

734 posts

51 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th October 2011 quote quote all
Trax said:
Don't think we can charge back either, as it was done with a Visa Debit, not credit.
You're in luck, Visa has your back!

Get your money back now.


Taken from here: http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/

Visa Debit Chargeback – The Facts
November 8th, 2008 • Related • Filed Under
71


The majority of us are now aware of the benefits of using our credit cards in terms of the protection it offers us in the event the supplier is unable to offer the goods and services we have paid for.

But did you know that you can also claim the money back if you have paid on your Visa Debit card? And unlike your credit card, which imposes a minimum spend of £100, you can claim back any amount of money.

The process is called Visa Debit Chargeback, and, as the name suggests, is a procedure in which the banks will ‘charge back’ the value of the original transaction directly from the supplier’s bank, and pass this amount on to you.

All banks who issue Visa cards have only recently agreed to process chargeback requests, and there is still widespread confusion over what it is and how it works. Therefore if you meet a dead end in your discussions with bank staff, persist. The facility is there for you to take advantage of.

Invoking the chargeback procedure

If you suspect your card has been used fraudulently, if the goods and services you bought with your card are faulty or if they do not materialise, then you should contact the bank who has provided you with your Visa debit card within 120 days, requesting they initiate the chargeback process. It does not mean you will automatically and immediately get your money back. It will initially become a ‘dispute’ in which the claim will be fully investigated by both banks before any money is returned.
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