Wafting: Do modern, comfortable superminis exist?
Discussion
I've been thinking about making this thread for a good while now, brought about by my frustration at the lack of comfortable, small hatchbacks.
I buy and drive superminis exclusively, I do not carry passengers at all, ever, therefore it makes no sense for me to buy anything larger. I've owned a fair number of new, mainstream superminis now and have noticed that ride quality is becoming increasingly hard on newer cars. Another massive annoyance is that buying the top spec model (not necessarily any faster than base spec in a lot of cases) of a car often forces you to accept stupidly large wheels as part of the package, which then leads to interior rattles on a brand new car.
I may be coming across as a boring f
ker, don't get me wrong, I generally do like driving, but the few times I do fancy a spirited drive pale in comparison to the amount of times I'm doing the A-B work run. Doesn't it make more sense to have a car more suitable for the purpose it is being used for the majority of the time? In the case of massive wheels, manufacturers will most likely say that the specifications are dictated by the customers' wishes, how do they know that I want 32" alloys if I'm not given a choice??
So, my rant has taken me a little off-topic from what I originally intended
Are there any superminis available that are comfortable to drive and well built these days?
I buy and drive superminis exclusively, I do not carry passengers at all, ever, therefore it makes no sense for me to buy anything larger. I've owned a fair number of new, mainstream superminis now and have noticed that ride quality is becoming increasingly hard on newer cars. Another massive annoyance is that buying the top spec model (not necessarily any faster than base spec in a lot of cases) of a car often forces you to accept stupidly large wheels as part of the package, which then leads to interior rattles on a brand new car.
I may be coming across as a boring f
ker, don't get me wrong, I generally do like driving, but the few times I do fancy a spirited drive pale in comparison to the amount of times I'm doing the A-B work run. Doesn't it make more sense to have a car more suitable for the purpose it is being used for the majority of the time? In the case of massive wheels, manufacturers will most likely say that the specifications are dictated by the customers' wishes, how do they know that I want 32" alloys if I'm not given a choice??So, my rant has taken me a little off-topic from what I originally intended
Are there any superminis available that are comfortable to drive and well built these days?It's difficult to get a wafty supermini because of short wheelbases and the fact that superminis are expected to be 'nippy' and 'agile' for nipping into gaps in traffic and other tat like that.
Out of curiosity, why do you buy lots of new superminis? Your post read as though you change between new small cars often. Surely it would be cheaper to get a bigger older car which will inherently be more comfy.
Failing that, get a Cygnet
Out of curiosity, why do you buy lots of new superminis? Your post read as though you change between new small cars often. Surely it would be cheaper to get a bigger older car which will inherently be more comfy.
Failing that, get a Cygnet
Codswallop said:
It's difficult to get a wafty supermini because of short wheelbases and the fact that superminis are expected to be 'nippy' and 'agile' for nipping into gaps in traffic and other tat like that.
Out of curiosity, why do you buy lots of new superminis? Your post read as though you change between new small cars often. Surely it would be cheaper to get a bigger older car which will inherently be more comfy.
Apart from not carrying passengers, parking where I live is beyond ridiculous. It's not uncommon for people to have three cars, all parked on the street. I can't even park outside my own house so I have to get a space where I can. I currently have a new Fiesta, which, at almost four metres, is pushing it as far as length goes.Out of curiosity, why do you buy lots of new superminis? Your post read as though you change between new small cars often. Surely it would be cheaper to get a bigger older car which will inherently be more comfy.
I did buy a MKV Golf a couple of years ago, parts fell off it faster than I could keep up with, the ride quality was dire. I've seen that VW advert on TV that goes "...like a Golf"
Yes. s
te, like a Golf.I dont think comfortable wafting goes with the territory of the supermini. We keep being told by professional reviewers how the modern supermini is more comfortable on the motorway than their predecessors and all the rest of it but theres still limitations to a small car. The wheelbase is a big one, a longer wheelbase means a smoother ride. A 3 metre long car at 30mph goes over bumps twice as fast as a 6 metre long car.
Personally i think small cars are a bit of a false economy. Generally they're not that cheap, fuel economy isnt actually that magnificent, insurance can sometimes be more than its bigger brother. To get them with luxury spec is usually rare and expensive. It'll be easy to sell later on though it has to be said. But even a 2011 supermini cannot waft as comfortably as a 2001 sub 1k barge.
I dont buy the 'i dont put people in the back so i dont need a big car' argument. I have a Rover 75 and i dont have a family or anything, its rare anybody will go in the back but i could drive 500 miles in it and it'll feel like a short trip to the shop.
Whilst we're on it, small cars these days arent that small. A 5 door Fiesta is 155 inches long, my Rover 75 is 187 inches long. Get your tape measure out and see how long 32 inches actually is, its not that much really and theres plenty of big four door comfy cars which are smaller than the 75.
Personally i think small cars are a bit of a false economy. Generally they're not that cheap, fuel economy isnt actually that magnificent, insurance can sometimes be more than its bigger brother. To get them with luxury spec is usually rare and expensive. It'll be easy to sell later on though it has to be said. But even a 2011 supermini cannot waft as comfortably as a 2001 sub 1k barge.
I dont buy the 'i dont put people in the back so i dont need a big car' argument. I have a Rover 75 and i dont have a family or anything, its rare anybody will go in the back but i could drive 500 miles in it and it'll feel like a short trip to the shop.
Whilst we're on it, small cars these days arent that small. A 5 door Fiesta is 155 inches long, my Rover 75 is 187 inches long. Get your tape measure out and see how long 32 inches actually is, its not that much really and theres plenty of big four door comfy cars which are smaller than the 75.
PumpkinSteve said:
I've been thinking about making this thread for a good while now, brought about by my frustration at the lack of comfortable, small hatchbacks.
I buy and drive superminis exclusively, I do not carry passengers at all, ever, therefore it makes no sense for me to buy anything larger. I've owned a fair number of new, mainstream superminis now and have noticed that ride quality is becoming increasingly hard on newer cars. Another massive annoyance is that buying the top spec model (not necessarily any faster than base spec in a lot of cases) of a car often forces you to accept stupidly large wheels as part of the package, which then leads to interior rattles on a brand new car.
I may be coming across as a boring fker, don't get me wrong, I generally do like driving, but the few times I do fancy a spirited drive pale in comparison to the amount of times I'm doing the A-B work run. Doesn't it make more sense to have a car more suitable for the purpose it is being used for the majority of the time? In the case of massive wheels, manufacturers will most likely say that the specifications are dictated by the customers' wishes, how do they know that I want 32" alloys if I'm not given a choice??
So, my rant has taken me a little off-topic from what I originally intended Are there any superminis available that are comfortable to drive and well built these days?
I had a discussion with a senior Mercedes-Benz product manager a few weeks back about exactly the sort of car you're looking for. His contention was that there was no market for a small, luxuriously equipped car. I reckon that there is a niche for something with all the same toys as an S-Class and with as good a ride as is possible given the obvious size issues. He said that they had tried with the A-Class, but there's no way that car is plush enough for that particular market. If you want the comfort of a big car without the bulk and the ongoing bills, there's not really anything out there.I buy and drive superminis exclusively, I do not carry passengers at all, ever, therefore it makes no sense for me to buy anything larger. I've owned a fair number of new, mainstream superminis now and have noticed that ride quality is becoming increasingly hard on newer cars. Another massive annoyance is that buying the top spec model (not necessarily any faster than base spec in a lot of cases) of a car often forces you to accept stupidly large wheels as part of the package, which then leads to interior rattles on a brand new car.
I may be coming across as a boring f
ker, don't get me wrong, I generally do like driving, but the few times I do fancy a spirited drive pale in comparison to the amount of times I'm doing the A-B work run. Doesn't it make more sense to have a car more suitable for the purpose it is being used for the majority of the time? In the case of massive wheels, manufacturers will most likely say that the specifications are dictated by the customers' wishes, how do they know that I want 32" alloys if I'm not given a choice??So, my rant has taken me a little off-topic from what I originally intended
Are there any superminis available that are comfortable to drive and well built these days?I've just spent the last 3 weeks driving a 2007 Clio 138 whilst I was fixing my daily; 2 litre engine, relaxed gearing, supple ride, loaded with mod cons (half leather, digital climate control, xexons, 16" wheels with 55 profile tyres) and the interior is pretty good too. Coming from a 9-3 with somewhat harsh suspension, the Clio rides like a magic carpet but still has enough poke to make it feel as if you're not being left behind in traffic. It was quite a rare model but due to it's humble origins can probably be picked up for around £6k.
Move up a size to the Golf / Focus, choose one with the engine you want, the kit from the options you desire and smallest wheels available, and you have yourself a pretty handy commuter car.
But a small car can never waft. I had an e39 5 series, and even that was not a wafter. You need a barge to waft.
But a small car can never waft. I had an e39 5 series, and even that was not a wafter. You need a barge to waft.
PumpkinSteve said:
I've been thinking about making this thread for a good while now, brought about by my frustration at the lack of comfortable, small hatchbacks.
I buy and drive superminis exclusively, I do not carry passengers at all, ever, therefore it makes no sense for me to buy anything larger. I've owned a fair number of new, mainstream superminis now and have noticed that ride quality is becoming increasingly hard on newer cars. Another massive annoyance is that buying the top spec model (not necessarily any faster than base spec in a lot of cases) of a car often forces you to accept stupidly large wheels as part of the package, which then leads to interior rattles on a brand new car.
I may be coming across as a boring fker, don't get me wrong, I generally do like driving, but the few times I do fancy a spirited drive pale in comparison to the amount of times I'm doing the A-B work run. Doesn't it make more sense to have a car more suitable for the purpose it is being used for the majority of the time? In the case of massive wheels, manufacturers will most likely say that the specifications are dictated by the customers' wishes, how do they know that I want 32" alloys if I'm not given a choice??
So, my rant has taken me a little off-topic from what I originally intended Are there any superminis available that are comfortable to drive and well built these days?
I don't know if it fits exactly your requirements (it's a small car but supermini?) but I've always felt the Mk1 Fabia vRS felt (drove) like a bigger car on the motorway. Indeed, the reason I opted for it over the equivalent Ibiza was that if I went over a discarded coin in the Fabia I couldn't tell if it was head or tails up. I think ultimately the reason some people don't get on with the Fabia's ride is due to the seats, I find them supportive and perfectly comfortable for my build, others not so much.I buy and drive superminis exclusively, I do not carry passengers at all, ever, therefore it makes no sense for me to buy anything larger. I've owned a fair number of new, mainstream superminis now and have noticed that ride quality is becoming increasingly hard on newer cars. Another massive annoyance is that buying the top spec model (not necessarily any faster than base spec in a lot of cases) of a car often forces you to accept stupidly large wheels as part of the package, which then leads to interior rattles on a brand new car.
I may be coming across as a boring f
ker, don't get me wrong, I generally do like driving, but the few times I do fancy a spirited drive pale in comparison to the amount of times I'm doing the A-B work run. Doesn't it make more sense to have a car more suitable for the purpose it is being used for the majority of the time? In the case of massive wheels, manufacturers will most likely say that the specifications are dictated by the customers' wishes, how do they know that I want 32" alloys if I'm not given a choice??So, my rant has taken me a little off-topic from what I originally intended
Are there any superminis available that are comfortable to drive and well built these days?Anyway, 2p added to sum.
PumpkinSteve said:
I buy and drive superminis exclusively, I do not carry passengers at all, ever, therefore it makes no sense for me to buy anything larger.
See, this is where you are going wrong.You buy a barge not for its ability to carry people, but for its ability to waft around in effortless comfort.
People need to get over this idea that larger cars are only for carrying more people. It's rubbish. I wouldnt want anything smaller than a 5 Series yet its rarely ever anyone but me in the car.
Plenty of small, but luxurious cars out there - Polos can be specced up, top line MiTos are very nice places to be, and I'm sure there are others.
As has been said, if you move up to a Golf / Focus you can get pretty much everything you'd get on a big luxury car - Golf GT, Focus Titanium etc., are all really loaded with kit - and I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that they're the only car you'd ever need.
(You may want something bigger / faster etc - but you don't *need* anything else most of the time)
As has been said, if you move up to a Golf / Focus you can get pretty much everything you'd get on a big luxury car - Golf GT, Focus Titanium etc., are all really loaded with kit - and I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that they're the only car you'd ever need.
(You may want something bigger / faster etc - but you don't *need* anything else most of the time)
Fox- said:
Luxury is not about kit. A Fiesta with every options box ticked is not a luxury car, it is a Fiesta with lots of kit.
You've spent too long around BMWs where they believe luxury is a blue and white propellor, even if it only has cloth and manual air-con 
(and optional-extra radio...)
I parked my Landcruiser (a big one) next to one of those new "inflated" Mini's the other day, it made the Landcruiser look small! I also saw a picture on the net the other day of a the same mini dwarfing a BL Landcrab.
Modern super mini's are often not small at all. Plenty of older smaller cars had a great ride without being uncomfortable.
However as for ride I think you'll be needing something French.
Modern super mini's are often not small at all. Plenty of older smaller cars had a great ride without being uncomfortable.
However as for ride I think you'll be needing something French.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff