E36 323I - Help make the ticking stop, please!
Discussion
Hi,
Recently moved from the mx5 community to a 1998 323i coupe as more of an everyday all rounder.
In last few weeks a ticking/tapping/rattling sound has slowly got worse. This noise comes from the rear of the drivers side area of the engine bay (I think! Its hard to pin point) and once again I THINK it seems to be coming from the manifold area, i.e lower down the block, but I could be wrong!
The noise is far quieter on a cold start up and gets progressively worse the hotter the engine gets. The noise seems to increase with load on the engine and goes from a ticking to a raspy like ticking with an increase in revs. On overrun/coasting the ticking is quieter and very much a light ticking sound. The noise can be heard from in the car, and when cruising on the motorway with steady revs is a light constant ticking sound, sounding as if its coming up through the clocks, this is the only time I sometimes think its not in time with the cars Revs.
I am new to six cylinders/Bmw's never having owned either before and am therefore unsure as to their usual engine/intake/exhaust sounds. When first purchasing the car I noticed when accelerating past 3/4000rpm there was a raspy exhuast like sound from the front of the car, my girlfriend (definately not a Pistonhead!) off her own back questioned whether the noise was normal. I would liken this noise to the tailpipe noise I have heard from an E46 M3 accelerating hard once before though this noise is coming from infront of me not behind! At the time I thought this was a normal "straight six" noise as it was only heard when reving past 3/4k but am increasingly thinking it has a connection with the ticking as as revs build the ticking seems to blend in/become this raspy noise.
The ticking noise bothers me for a number of reasons, If its lifters etc is it causing damage or poor performance etc, I can hear it when driving and its very annoying and the car nearly sounds like a diesel on tickover from the outside, it doesnt sound great!
With my little free time, to date this is what I have done so far to diagnose/sort the problem:
Changed oil twice with 10w40 - first time magnatec, second time some cheap stuff as I intend to drop it all again soon as a kind of flush technique.
I have recently chucked in some Wynns Lifter treatment.
I have cleaned the insides of the cam cover and the covers breather pipe.
Changed the cam cover gasket.
Listened ALOT to the noise with my head in the engine bay.
Had the car up on axel stands and laid underneath the car with it running with my head up by the downpipe listening for a leak.
Had a diagnostic check with an Autologic reader - No fault codes showed up - I.e cam sensor didnt show up.
Im going to get someone to hold a rag or similar in the end of the tailpipe whilst I listen for a leak at the manifold incase this is the problem but if anyone else has any suggestions then please do not hesitate to suggest anything! This is driving me mad and without paying a garage with money I havent got to investigate this, im starting to feel like im running out of ideas!.
Thanks!
Recently moved from the mx5 community to a 1998 323i coupe as more of an everyday all rounder.
In last few weeks a ticking/tapping/rattling sound has slowly got worse. This noise comes from the rear of the drivers side area of the engine bay (I think! Its hard to pin point) and once again I THINK it seems to be coming from the manifold area, i.e lower down the block, but I could be wrong!
The noise is far quieter on a cold start up and gets progressively worse the hotter the engine gets. The noise seems to increase with load on the engine and goes from a ticking to a raspy like ticking with an increase in revs. On overrun/coasting the ticking is quieter and very much a light ticking sound. The noise can be heard from in the car, and when cruising on the motorway with steady revs is a light constant ticking sound, sounding as if its coming up through the clocks, this is the only time I sometimes think its not in time with the cars Revs.
I am new to six cylinders/Bmw's never having owned either before and am therefore unsure as to their usual engine/intake/exhaust sounds. When first purchasing the car I noticed when accelerating past 3/4000rpm there was a raspy exhuast like sound from the front of the car, my girlfriend (definately not a Pistonhead!) off her own back questioned whether the noise was normal. I would liken this noise to the tailpipe noise I have heard from an E46 M3 accelerating hard once before though this noise is coming from infront of me not behind! At the time I thought this was a normal "straight six" noise as it was only heard when reving past 3/4k but am increasingly thinking it has a connection with the ticking as as revs build the ticking seems to blend in/become this raspy noise.
The ticking noise bothers me for a number of reasons, If its lifters etc is it causing damage or poor performance etc, I can hear it when driving and its very annoying and the car nearly sounds like a diesel on tickover from the outside, it doesnt sound great!
With my little free time, to date this is what I have done so far to diagnose/sort the problem:
Changed oil twice with 10w40 - first time magnatec, second time some cheap stuff as I intend to drop it all again soon as a kind of flush technique.
I have recently chucked in some Wynns Lifter treatment.
I have cleaned the insides of the cam cover and the covers breather pipe.
Changed the cam cover gasket.
Listened ALOT to the noise with my head in the engine bay.
Had the car up on axel stands and laid underneath the car with it running with my head up by the downpipe listening for a leak.
Had a diagnostic check with an Autologic reader - No fault codes showed up - I.e cam sensor didnt show up.
Im going to get someone to hold a rag or similar in the end of the tailpipe whilst I listen for a leak at the manifold incase this is the problem but if anyone else has any suggestions then please do not hesitate to suggest anything! This is driving me mad and without paying a garage with money I havent got to investigate this, im starting to feel like im running out of ideas!.
Thanks!
helix402 said:
Probably not related, but 10w40 is the wrong oil grade. It should be 5w40 fully synthetic, BMW longlife 98 approved.
Thought the M52 used semi-synth? Edited by helix402 on Thursday 22 December 22:43
I know the M54 in my 530i uses 5w40 fully synth, but I'm sure I read that the earlier m52 (x23,x28) used semi synth?
Almost without a doubt this will be a split exhaust manifold, probably the rear one. I had exactly the same a few months ago and it was a b
h to diagnose.
Where the manifold joins the centre section there is a flange with 3 studs that holds the 2 together.
Where the tube joins the flange is where your split will be.
I welded the split all around the joint and the ticking has gone. Taking the manifold off though is a fking PITA and no mistake.
h to diagnose.Where the manifold joins the centre section there is a flange with 3 studs that holds the 2 together.
Where the tube joins the flange is where your split will be.
I welded the split all around the joint and the ticking has gone. Taking the manifold off though is a f
king PITA and no mistake. It's an auxillary water pump/ heater valve. Sorry I can't remember the exact name. It's positioned on the lower left hand side of the engine bay.
I have had this on two E36s. One I bought new and kept taking it back to the dealer. They kept investigating and eventually changed it under warranty but warned me that they all made this noise. They were absolutely right. I had it again on a second E36. I just got used to it.
If yours is extremely noisy. It may be worh changing.
Is there a prize for a correct diagnosis?
pp
I have had this on two E36s. One I bought new and kept taking it back to the dealer. They kept investigating and eventually changed it under warranty but warned me that they all made this noise. They were absolutely right. I had it again on a second E36. I just got used to it.
If yours is extremely noisy. It may be worh changing.
Is there a prize for a correct diagnosis?
ppseismic22 said:
Hi,
Recently moved from the mx5 community to a 1998 323i coupe as more of an everyday all rounder.
In last few weeks a ticking/tapping/rattling sound has slowly got worse. This noise comes from the rear of the drivers side area of the engine bay (I think! Its hard to pin point) and once again I THINK it seems to be coming from the manifold area, i.e lower down the block, but I could be wrong!
Recently moved from the mx5 community to a 1998 323i coupe as more of an everyday all rounder.
In last few weeks a ticking/tapping/rattling sound has slowly got worse. This noise comes from the rear of the drivers side area of the engine bay (I think! Its hard to pin point) and once again I THINK it seems to be coming from the manifold area, i.e lower down the block, but I could be wrong!
Pickled Piper said:
It's an auxillary water pump/ heater valve. Sorry I can't remember the exact name. It's positioned on the lower left hand side of the engine bay.
I have had this on two E36s. One I bought new and kept taking it back to the dealer. They kept investigating and eventually changed it under warranty but warned me that they all made this noise. They were absolutely right. I had it again on a second E36. I just got used to it.
If yours is extremely noisy. It may be worh changing.
Is there a prize for a correct diagnosis?
pp
If the OP is correct about the origin of the noise then I would not cash in your chips just yet, as the heater valve is on the passenger side of the engine bay assuming his car is RHD.I have had this on two E36s. One I bought new and kept taking it back to the dealer. They kept investigating and eventually changed it under warranty but warned me that they all made this noise. They were absolutely right. I had it again on a second E36. I just got used to it.
If yours is extremely noisy. It may be worh changing.
Is there a prize for a correct diagnosis?
ppThere is an easy way to check the valve, unplug it and see if the noise is still evident.
Thanks for all your suggestions. Much appreciated. Currently on my blackberry, will reply properly to all comments when I get on the laptop.
Extra info: drove 150 miles in car last night and by the time I stopped the noise was worse than ever.
Yes car makes noise on over run, idle and under throttle.
Car is right hand drive and noise is definitely coming from drivers side of engine bay.
Will respond further later on when home. Thanks
Extra info: drove 150 miles in car last night and by the time I stopped the noise was worse than ever.
Yes car makes noise on over run, idle and under throttle.
Car is right hand drive and noise is definitely coming from drivers side of engine bay.
Will respond further later on when home. Thanks
Hi,
In response to previous replies: (how do you Multiquote on this forum??)
@steve_bmw - Though I can hear a little injector tick im not sure whether its really that abnormal. The noise in question is definitely from the LHS of the engine, Ive taken the injector cover off and listened with the screw driver to my ear and I really dont think its this noise. Ill probably change the cam sensor with the lambda sensors in the future as a matter of a refresh/precaution. On over run it still makes the noise, it never goes other than on a cold start for a minute or two before getting progressively worse. Mpg has been bad but ive just changed the Thermostat (wasnt warming up) and now seems ok, the last 150 mile journey i did, I was mainly sat at 0.85-90 leptons(running late following forgetting to pack xmas presents!) and then in alot of stop start traffic and she averaged 31mpg which i thinks ok! Cheers!
@helix402 - Spark Plugs are tight. BMW recommend 10w40 and from looking in the manual it seems to suggest this too but I am aware of many other people running 5w40, for an older engine maybe 10w40 is a bit more suitable? I dont know? Cheers
@Buff Mchugelarge - wheres the fuel pump relay? cheers.
@chrisr29 - yes I am leaning towards a manifold leak. Thanks
@Leptons - yes I have heard the manifold is a PITA to remove, any tips? Did you get al the nuts of without damaging/removing the studs also? How did you manage to diagnose/what made you decide to remove the manifolds? I hope its not the manifold, id rather it the gasket, im not a welder yet im afraid! Cheers!
@pickled piper - heater valve is all fine, i had this off only a week ago took it apart, flushed it through and cleaned the plungers - thanks for the comment.
Well thanks for all the help so far guys, any more info/advice/help is welcome.
Unfortunately not going to be driving it for a week now due to staying away for Christmas. However as I said in my last quick message, the last long trip I did in it, the noise seemed to get worse and by the time i pulled up at my destination, she was really ticking away. In the traffc I got stuck in if the side of a car in the next lane over was alongside the front of the car (esp if it was a van) I could really here the ticking echoing away.
Cheers!
In response to previous replies: (how do you Multiquote on this forum??)
@steve_bmw - Though I can hear a little injector tick im not sure whether its really that abnormal. The noise in question is definitely from the LHS of the engine, Ive taken the injector cover off and listened with the screw driver to my ear and I really dont think its this noise. Ill probably change the cam sensor with the lambda sensors in the future as a matter of a refresh/precaution. On over run it still makes the noise, it never goes other than on a cold start for a minute or two before getting progressively worse. Mpg has been bad but ive just changed the Thermostat (wasnt warming up) and now seems ok, the last 150 mile journey i did, I was mainly sat at 0.85-90 leptons(running late following forgetting to pack xmas presents!) and then in alot of stop start traffic and she averaged 31mpg which i thinks ok! Cheers!
@helix402 - Spark Plugs are tight. BMW recommend 10w40 and from looking in the manual it seems to suggest this too but I am aware of many other people running 5w40, for an older engine maybe 10w40 is a bit more suitable? I dont know? Cheers
@Buff Mchugelarge - wheres the fuel pump relay? cheers.
@chrisr29 - yes I am leaning towards a manifold leak. Thanks
@Leptons - yes I have heard the manifold is a PITA to remove, any tips? Did you get al the nuts of without damaging/removing the studs also? How did you manage to diagnose/what made you decide to remove the manifolds? I hope its not the manifold, id rather it the gasket, im not a welder yet im afraid! Cheers!
@pickled piper - heater valve is all fine, i had this off only a week ago took it apart, flushed it through and cleaned the plungers - thanks for the comment.
Well thanks for all the help so far guys, any more info/advice/help is welcome.
Unfortunately not going to be driving it for a week now due to staying away for Christmas. However as I said in my last quick message, the last long trip I did in it, the noise seemed to get worse and by the time i pulled up at my destination, she was really ticking away. In the traffc I got stuck in if the side of a car in the next lane over was alongside the front of the car (esp if it was a van) I could really here the ticking echoing away.
Cheers!
@steve_bmw - Though I can hear a little injector tick im not sure whether its really that abnormal. The noise in question is definitely from the LHS of the engine, Ive taken the injector cover off and listened with the screw driver to my ear and I really dont think its this noise. Ill probably change the cam sensor with the lambda sensors in the future as a matter of a refresh/precaution. On over run it still makes the noise, it never goes other than on a cold start for a minute or two before getting progressively worse. Mpg has been bad but ive just changed the Thermostat (wasnt warming up) and now seems ok, the last 150 mile journey i did, I was mainly sat at 0.85-90 leptons(running late following forgetting to pack xmas presents!) and then in alot of stop start traffic and she averaged 31mpg which i thinks ok! Cheers!
@helix402 - Spark Plugs are tight. BMW recommend 10w40 and from looking in the manual it seems to suggest this too but I am aware of many other people running 5w40, for an older engine maybe 10w40 is a bit more suitable? I dont know? Cheers
@Buff Mchugelarge - wheres the fuel pump relay? cheers.
@chrisr29 - yes I am leaning towards a manifold leak. Thanks
@Leptons - yes I have heard the manifold is a PITA to remove, any tips? Did you get al the nuts of without damaging/removing the studs also? How did you manage to diagnose/what made you decide to remove the manifolds? I hope its not the manifold, id rather it the gasket, im not a welder yet im afraid! Cheers!
I spent 10 years working as a BMW Technician at a main dealer. I have never known a cam sensor to cause a ticking noise from an engine. We filled M52 engines with fully synthetic, Shell in the old days, then Castrol SLX (Edge for the retail market). I currently maintain 2 E36 328is, both with 170k miles on the clock. I use fully synthetic oil in these.
The fuel pump relay is located by the bulkhead, on the passenger side-I think it's light green.
From your description it sounds like hydraulic lifters/tappets or an exhaust manifold or gasket leak. These lifters often get noisy with low oil level, but usually quieten when it is refilled. The exhaust manifold is not hard to remove, as long as nuts aren't seized. Another thing to check is camshaft lobe wear, is there any?
Hope this helps.
@helix402 - Spark Plugs are tight. BMW recommend 10w40 and from looking in the manual it seems to suggest this too but I am aware of many other people running 5w40, for an older engine maybe 10w40 is a bit more suitable? I dont know? Cheers
@Buff Mchugelarge - wheres the fuel pump relay? cheers.
@chrisr29 - yes I am leaning towards a manifold leak. Thanks
@Leptons - yes I have heard the manifold is a PITA to remove, any tips? Did you get al the nuts of without damaging/removing the studs also? How did you manage to diagnose/what made you decide to remove the manifolds? I hope its not the manifold, id rather it the gasket, im not a welder yet im afraid! Cheers!
I spent 10 years working as a BMW Technician at a main dealer. I have never known a cam sensor to cause a ticking noise from an engine. We filled M52 engines with fully synthetic, Shell in the old days, then Castrol SLX (Edge for the retail market). I currently maintain 2 E36 328is, both with 170k miles on the clock. I use fully synthetic oil in these.
The fuel pump relay is located by the bulkhead, on the passenger side-I think it's light green.
From your description it sounds like hydraulic lifters/tappets or an exhaust manifold or gasket leak. These lifters often get noisy with low oil level, but usually quieten when it is refilled. The exhaust manifold is not hard to remove, as long as nuts aren't seized. Another thing to check is camshaft lobe wear, is there any?
Hope this helps.
@helix
I spent 10 years working as a BMW Technician at a main dealer. I have never known a cam sensor to cause a ticking noise from an engine.
next time you see one of these cars try un pluging the cam sensor and then you will hear a quite loud unusual sound coming from the injector ara!
Batch firing of the injectors.
I spent 10 years working as a BMW Technician at a main dealer. I have never known a cam sensor to cause a ticking noise from an engine.
next time you see one of these cars try un pluging the cam sensor and then you will hear a quite loud unusual sound coming from the injector ara!
Batch firing of the injectors.
to back up what others have said
it wont be the cam sensor as the car would be running rough same goes for the fuel pump relay you wouldnt hear it clicking and you would be having running issues
the exhaust sounds like its the culprit, there is a crack or one of the gaskets has gone in it and when the exhaust is heating up the crack opens up making the noise louder
if it does turn out to be the manifold (its common on the M42/M44 engines) soak the nuts in pentrating fluid overnight then another blast of the stuff before you start and take your time when removing them
it wont be the cam sensor as the car would be running rough same goes for the fuel pump relay you wouldnt hear it clicking and you would be having running issues
the exhaust sounds like its the culprit, there is a crack or one of the gaskets has gone in it and when the exhaust is heating up the crack opens up making the noise louder
if it does turn out to be the manifold (its common on the M42/M44 engines) soak the nuts in pentrating fluid overnight then another blast of the stuff before you start and take your time when removing them
Got picked up from stansted airport yesterday in relatives 1998 523i.
Sounded completely different to mine, with the engine note changing very little through the rev range.
Whether it is the only issue or not im now pretty dam sure theres some sort of manifold/gasket issue with mine now.
Will update following further investigation.
Cheers
Sounded completely different to mine, with the engine note changing very little through the rev range.
Whether it is the only issue or not im now pretty dam sure theres some sort of manifold/gasket issue with mine now.
Will update following further investigation.
Cheers
Hi All,
Sorry to bump up an old post but thought it would be better than posting a new one similar to this..
OP, did you get your issue resolved?
I seem to get somewhat similar noise and have attempted to catch it in this video..
http://youtu.be/lgbIyHGffok
I haven't checked up via a scan device for any obvious signs of faults (sensors. Searching for a BMW specialist around would help perhaps.
Any pointers would be welcome.
Thanks
Sorry to bump up an old post but thought it would be better than posting a new one similar to this..
OP, did you get your issue resolved?
I seem to get somewhat similar noise and have attempted to catch it in this video..
http://youtu.be/lgbIyHGffok
I haven't checked up via a scan device for any obvious signs of faults (sensors. Searching for a BMW specialist around would help perhaps.
Any pointers would be welcome.
Thanks
Edited by gansbab on Saturday 25th May 21:46
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