Any love for the Ferrari 400 here? Anyone?
Discussion
Not much discussion on the 365/400/412 here so I thought I would post some pics of my 1983 400i (yes, it's an automatic...)
Originally a UK car before it came here to Oz and had a major restoration by the last owner. I've owned it for two years now. I think they are quite a cool car, but obviously considered a bit of an unloved orphan by those who remember them (which probably isn't many).
Originally a UK car before it came here to Oz and had a major restoration by the last owner. I've owned it for two years now. I think they are quite a cool car, but obviously considered a bit of an unloved orphan by those who remember them (which probably isn't many).
A chap near to me has one, a nice change from the obligatory red models methinks. He tells me they are getting rare these days.
Having an unloved reputation that is reflected in resale values, as a cost effective option they are often bought for their original
parts value, whereupon they are dismantled in order to restore/repair more desireable models.
Having an unloved reputation that is reflected in resale values, as a cost effective option they are often bought for their original
parts value, whereupon they are dismantled in order to restore/repair more desireable models.
My old man bought one years ago on a whim at an auction but it fortunately turned out to be a good one.
We did a European tour with the Ferrari Owners Club in it and it was great. Big, comfy with loads of luggage space and plenty of power. A great GT car.
One of the fuel pumps packed up in Germany on the penultimate day so we had to drive 900 miles home on 6 cylinders but still cruised at 100 all the way.
We did a European tour with the Ferrari Owners Club in it and it was great. Big, comfy with loads of luggage space and plenty of power. A great GT car.
One of the fuel pumps packed up in Germany on the penultimate day so we had to drive 900 miles home on 6 cylinders but still cruised at 100 all the way.
One of my Dads mates had a 400 as an everyday. Even as kids we preferred riding in it than his Dino 246 and other sports cars. Hugely fun things, used to make us giggle when he opened the taps and it steamrollered up the road. Odd how time changes things cos they don't seem such a big car now that everything else on the road has expanded.
Wow! That looks lovely. I have always had a soft spot for these and went to look at one priced at £12k a couple of years ago. The dealer that had it did an excellent job of saying that is was a 'poor man's Ferrari' and out of principle alone I did not buy the car from him. I regret this very much now as they are stunning and prices are on the increase. To me, these cars are about the period and the Pininfarina styling.. and also about saying 'up yours' to the oil crisis which the market was then recovering from 
Some questions if I may:
1) What is the GM auto box like to live with when coupled with that glorious V12? Is it like a modern auto that changes down at the earliest opportunity, or do you need a firm prod to get the kick-down engaged? I should imagine that there is plenty of torque, but is the Ferrari V12 a screaming howler (as expected), or is the engine in the 400 more in keeping with a true GT car and more flexible, not just top end performance?
2) How is it in the corners when making progress? I know it's a heavy car, but so was my friends XJS and that appeared to defy the laws of physics on fast bends.
3) How hard is it to source parts for? I live next to Verdi but I've always wondered where you get parts from, and if there are breakers/parts specialists for this car. My 928GT is already showing up as parts no longer available from Porche, and that is only 20 years old. This is not something I was expecting to find, and it has conditioned me to look for these issues with future purchases.
I love these large GT's and would still definitely consider one if the right one came along. Thanks for posting the pics, it looks lovely. Any updates would be appreciated.
Some questions if I may:
1) What is the GM auto box like to live with when coupled with that glorious V12? Is it like a modern auto that changes down at the earliest opportunity, or do you need a firm prod to get the kick-down engaged? I should imagine that there is plenty of torque, but is the Ferrari V12 a screaming howler (as expected), or is the engine in the 400 more in keeping with a true GT car and more flexible, not just top end performance?
2) How is it in the corners when making progress? I know it's a heavy car, but so was my friends XJS and that appeared to defy the laws of physics on fast bends.
3) How hard is it to source parts for? I live next to Verdi but I've always wondered where you get parts from, and if there are breakers/parts specialists for this car. My 928GT is already showing up as parts no longer available from Porche, and that is only 20 years old. This is not something I was expecting to find, and it has conditioned me to look for these issues with future purchases.
I love these large GT's and would still definitely consider one if the right one came along. Thanks for posting the pics, it looks lovely. Any updates would be appreciated.
Lord Flathead said:
Wow! That looks lovely. I have always had a soft spot for these and went to look at one priced at £12k a couple of years ago. The dealer that had it did an excellent job of saying that is was a 'poor man's Ferrari' and out of principle alone I did not buy the car from him. I regret this very much now as they are stunning and prices are on the increase. To me, these cars are about the period and the Pininfarina styling.. and also about saying 'up yours' to the oil crisis which the market was then recovering from
Some questions if I may:
1) What is the GM auto box like to live with when coupled with that glorious V12? Is it like a modern auto that changes down at the earliest opportunity, or do you need a firm prod to get the kick-down engaged? I should imagine that there is plenty of torque, but is the Ferrari V12 a screaming howler (as expected), or is the engine in the 400 more in keeping with a true GT car and more flexible, not just top end performance?
2) How is it in the corners when making progress? I know it's a heavy car, but so was my friends XJS and that appeared to defy the laws of physics on fast bends.
3) How hard is it to source parts for? I live next to Verdi but I've always wondered where you get parts from, and if there are breakers/parts specialists for this car. My 928GT is already showing up as parts no longer available from Porche, and that is only 20 years old. This is not something I was expecting to find, and it has conditioned me to look for these issues with future purchases.
I love these large GT's and would still definitely consider one if the right one came along. Thanks for posting the pics, it looks lovely. Any updates would be appreciated.
Thanks for your comments. You're right in saying they are not a "poor man's Ferrari". They may be less costly to buy than a Daytona or BB 512 but they are still a costly car to maintain. I have spent quite a bit on mine having the fuel injection re-built, rear dampers reconditioned etc. My car had a hugely expensive restoration carried out by the previous owner in 2000 but still there have been issues to resolve with the car. Having said that, once the car is set-up properly and fully sorted then routine maintenance shouldn't be too expensive. I still have a few things to sort-out on mine but it has always been 100% reliable. Starts instantly, doesn't overheat even on a 35c Sydney day etc. As to your questions...Some questions if I may:
1) What is the GM auto box like to live with when coupled with that glorious V12? Is it like a modern auto that changes down at the earliest opportunity, or do you need a firm prod to get the kick-down engaged? I should imagine that there is plenty of torque, but is the Ferrari V12 a screaming howler (as expected), or is the engine in the 400 more in keeping with a true GT car and more flexible, not just top end performance?
2) How is it in the corners when making progress? I know it's a heavy car, but so was my friends XJS and that appeared to defy the laws of physics on fast bends.
3) How hard is it to source parts for? I live next to Verdi but I've always wondered where you get parts from, and if there are breakers/parts specialists for this car. My 928GT is already showing up as parts no longer available from Porche, and that is only 20 years old. This is not something I was expecting to find, and it has conditioned me to look for these issues with future purchases.
I love these large GT's and would still definitely consider one if the right one came along. Thanks for posting the pics, it looks lovely. Any updates would be appreciated.
1) To be honest the 3 speed auto is probably the aspect of the car that dates it the most. It changes smoothly and makes it easy to drive around town (apart from the huge turning circle) but you are left waiting for it to change into the non-existant 4th gear at higher speeds. At 70mph it is turning at about 3600 rpm which makes it quite busy when cruising. Having said that, put your foot down at that speed and it flies... Around town it is plenty quick enough but a little lazy. Your 928 would feel much more lively around town, at speed the 400 really gets going. I haven't driven a 5 speed manual but I imagine it would better suit the high revving V12, although you may lose its "waft-ability" around town.
2) The handling is surprisingly good. The steering is a little slow, but for its size and age it will shift down a twisty road pretty well. It feels quite quite solid and well damped and it is easy enough to get it sliding on those TRX tyres... The ride is really comfortable as well. My wife much prefers riding in it to my Porsche 964. The cabin feels roomy and airy, different to a Porsche.
3) Parts availability can be an issue. Most mechanical and electrical parts are shared with other Ferraris and are available from specialists like Superformance in the UK or Ricambi in the US. FerrParts are also great for tricky parts like the self-levelling Koni rear dampers (there are 2 each side) which are NLA so have to be re-built as they tend to leak. eBay also turns-up some obscure parts. Things like interior trim are very hard to find. Gerry from Forza Parts in Sydney has a veritable Alladin's cave of rare parts too. Hope this helps. They are a special and unique car. Before I bought mine I had a 1982 Aston Martin V8 Auto. I would say that the 400i feels much more refined, handles at least as well, though perhaps not as quick.
I have always liked these, but as Jack says, they cost as much as any other Ferrari to maintain and parts are difficult
to source and pricey. So if one views them purely as an investment, will they appreciate in value enough to present their owner with a good investment?
If you ignore their investment potential, are they exciting enough to drive to warrant your investment in them or would you be better off buying a 308/328/355 which perhaps offer more of that true 'Ferrari' experience? Or if you need 4 seats, would the more modern and better built 456 be a better option?
These thoughts ran through my mind when I was looking to buy my first Ferrari and also when I looked to buy a V12 Ferrari with 4 seats. As you can see from my profile I didn't end up with a 365/400/412 but I did get close to buying the latter of these.
A friend just sold a lovely ex Fayed 400i for strong money, so their values are definitely on the up, but is that off the back of the general hike in older Ferrrari values and will the last to rise be the first to fall? (witness the 308 GT4 in the early '90s for evidence of that phenomenon)
to source and pricey. So if one views them purely as an investment, will they appreciate in value enough to present their owner with a good investment?
If you ignore their investment potential, are they exciting enough to drive to warrant your investment in them or would you be better off buying a 308/328/355 which perhaps offer more of that true 'Ferrari' experience? Or if you need 4 seats, would the more modern and better built 456 be a better option?
These thoughts ran through my mind when I was looking to buy my first Ferrari and also when I looked to buy a V12 Ferrari with 4 seats. As you can see from my profile I didn't end up with a 365/400/412 but I did get close to buying the latter of these.
A friend just sold a lovely ex Fayed 400i for strong money, so their values are definitely on the up, but is that off the back of the general hike in older Ferrrari values and will the last to rise be the first to fall? (witness the 308 GT4 in the early '90s for evidence of that phenomenon)
rubystone said:
I have always liked these, but as Jack says, they cost as much as any other Ferrari to maintain and parts are difficult
to source and pricey. So if one views them purely as an investment, will they appreciate in value enough to present their owner with a good investment?
If you ignore their investment potential, are they exciting enough to drive to warrant your investment in them or would you be better off buying a 308/328/355 which perhaps offer more of that true 'Ferrari' experience? Or if you need 4 seats, would the more modern and better built 456 be a better option?
These thoughts ran through my mind when I was looking to buy my first Ferrari and also when I looked to buy a V12 Ferrari with 4 seats. As you can see from my profile I didn't end up with a 365/400/412 but I did get close to buying the latter of these.
A friend just sold a lovely ex Fayed 400i for strong money, so their values are definitely on the up, but is that off the back of the general hike in older Ferrrari values and will the last to rise be the first to fall? (witness the 308 GT4 in the early '90s for evidence of that phenomenon)
A few thoughts...to source and pricey. So if one views them purely as an investment, will they appreciate in value enough to present their owner with a good investment?
If you ignore their investment potential, are they exciting enough to drive to warrant your investment in them or would you be better off buying a 308/328/355 which perhaps offer more of that true 'Ferrari' experience? Or if you need 4 seats, would the more modern and better built 456 be a better option?
These thoughts ran through my mind when I was looking to buy my first Ferrari and also when I looked to buy a V12 Ferrari with 4 seats. As you can see from my profile I didn't end up with a 365/400/412 but I did get close to buying the latter of these.
A friend just sold a lovely ex Fayed 400i for strong money, so their values are definitely on the up, but is that off the back of the general hike in older Ferrrari values and will the last to rise be the first to fall? (witness the 308 GT4 in the early '90s for evidence of that phenomenon)
I wouldn't buy a 400 as a pure investment case. Although personally the rise in value has (so far) outrun ownership costs, these cars had been previously undervalued for a long time. So to date I've just been lucky on that score.
In terms of driving excitement, what I enjoy most is hearing the V12 howl. Handling at speed on a well maintained example is outstanding. Ride at speed is also far superior to my day to day modern sports saloon. It's a true GT - strong performance, carrying 4 up and their luggage.
I went through the same thought process about a 328 but concluded with a wife and small child it wouldn't get used whereas with the 400 we can go on great trips together. I also looked at 456's - and may look for one in the future - but was put off by the early 90's electronic complexity. The 400 is mechanically complex but, in the hands of the right specialist, reasonably reliable.
JackCarter said:
Lord Flathead said:
Wow! That looks lovely. I have always had a soft spot for these and went to look at one priced at £12k a couple of years ago. The dealer that had it did an excellent job of saying that is was a 'poor man's Ferrari' and out of principle alone I did not buy the car from him. I regret this very much now as they are stunning and prices are on the increase. To me, these cars are about the period and the Pininfarina styling.. and also about saying 'up yours' to the oil crisis which the market was then recovering from
Some questions if I may:
1) What is the GM auto box like to live with when coupled with that glorious V12? Is it like a modern auto that changes down at the earliest opportunity, or do you need a firm prod to get the kick-down engaged? I should imagine that there is plenty of torque, but is the Ferrari V12 a screaming howler (as expected), or is the engine in the 400 more in keeping with a true GT car and more flexible, not just top end performance?
2) How is it in the corners when making progress? I know it's a heavy car, but so was my friends XJS and that appeared to defy the laws of physics on fast bends.
3) How hard is it to source parts for? I live next to Verdi but I've always wondered where you get parts from, and if there are breakers/parts specialists for this car. My 928GT is already showing up as parts no longer available from Porche, and that is only 20 years old. This is not something I was expecting to find, and it has conditioned me to look for these issues with future purchases.
I love these large GT's and would still definitely consider one if the right one came along. Thanks for posting the pics, it looks lovely. Any updates would be appreciated.
Thanks for your comments. You're right in saying they are not a "poor man's Ferrari". They may be less costly to buy than a Daytona or BB 512 but they are still a costly car to maintain. I have spent quite a bit on mine having the fuel injection re-built, rear dampers reconditioned etc. My car had a hugely expensive restoration carried out by the previous owner in 2000 but still there have been issues to resolve with the car. Having said that, once the car is set-up properly and fully sorted then routine maintenance shouldn't be too expensive. I still have a few things to sort-out on mine but it has always been 100% reliable. Starts instantly, doesn't overheat even on a 35c Sydney day etc. As to your questions...Some questions if I may:
1) What is the GM auto box like to live with when coupled with that glorious V12? Is it like a modern auto that changes down at the earliest opportunity, or do you need a firm prod to get the kick-down engaged? I should imagine that there is plenty of torque, but is the Ferrari V12 a screaming howler (as expected), or is the engine in the 400 more in keeping with a true GT car and more flexible, not just top end performance?
2) How is it in the corners when making progress? I know it's a heavy car, but so was my friends XJS and that appeared to defy the laws of physics on fast bends.
3) How hard is it to source parts for? I live next to Verdi but I've always wondered where you get parts from, and if there are breakers/parts specialists for this car. My 928GT is already showing up as parts no longer available from Porche, and that is only 20 years old. This is not something I was expecting to find, and it has conditioned me to look for these issues with future purchases.
I love these large GT's and would still definitely consider one if the right one came along. Thanks for posting the pics, it looks lovely. Any updates would be appreciated.
1) To be honest the 3 speed auto is probably the aspect of the car that dates it the most. It changes smoothly and makes it easy to drive around town (apart from the huge turning circle) but you are left waiting for it to change into the non-existant 4th gear at higher speeds. At 70mph it is turning at about 3600 rpm which makes it quite busy when cruising. Having said that, put your foot down at that speed and it flies... Around town it is plenty quick enough but a little lazy. Your 928 would feel much more lively around town, at speed the 400 really gets going. I haven't driven a 5 speed manual but I imagine it would better suit the high revving V12, although you may lose its "waft-ability" around town.
2) The handling is surprisingly good. The steering is a little slow, but for its size and age it will shift down a twisty road pretty well. It feels quite quite solid and well damped and it is easy enough to get it sliding on those TRX tyres... The ride is really comfortable as well. My wife much prefers riding in it to my Porsche 964. The cabin feels roomy and airy, different to a Porsche.
3) Parts availability can be an issue. Most mechanical and electrical parts are shared with other Ferraris and are available from specialists like Superformance in the UK or Ricambi in the US. FerrParts are also great for tricky parts like the self-levelling Koni rear dampers (there are 2 each side) which are NLA so have to be re-built as they tend to leak. eBay also turns-up some obscure parts. Things like interior trim are very hard to find. Gerry from Forza Parts in Sydney has a veritable Alladin's cave of rare parts too. Hope this helps. They are a special and unique car. Before I bought mine I had a 1982 Aston Martin V8 Auto. I would say that the 400i feels much more refined, handles at least as well, though perhaps not as quick.
1) Having driven both the auto and manual, the auto is much easier around town but the manual is better for the open road. In the town, the manual can be hard work with a heavy clutch. Out on the open road, the manual allows you to match ratios to revs more accurately giving a more performance car feel
2) Handling should be outstanding when properly set up. However many examples for sale have very old tyres on them - cornering can be radically improved with new rubber
3) I've found parts reasonable to source for those that are common to other Ferraris and tough for those that are 400-specific. But there are a good set of specialists out there able to support.
Hope this is useful.
I quite like these, i thought about buying one around 6 years ago, it was black with around 46k, Manual and Carbs, for 12.5k
I bought a lotus Excel instead, which has been fairly reliable and averaged out around 1500 a year to run, i do like my lotus a lot and the non rusting body is a +
But i guess in my heart i wish i'd been braver and bought the ferrari, no doubt being a manual carb model would easily be worth 20k now, which would have gone a long way to offset the higher running cost
I bought a lotus Excel instead, which has been fairly reliable and averaged out around 1500 a year to run, i do like my lotus a lot and the non rusting body is a +
But i guess in my heart i wish i'd been braver and bought the ferrari, no doubt being a manual carb model would easily be worth 20k now, which would have gone a long way to offset the higher running cost
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