Building road spec Tuscan challenge
Discussion
tvrgit said:
You could try contacting tvrolet on here - he built exactly what you are talking about, 6-point-something litre Chevy engine in a tuscan challenge car. I think the operative word is "challenge", but do-able.
^ This 
And a very tidy one as well with nice panel gaps unlike other Challenge cars i have seen.If you are going to do it properly it will turn out expensive. It's not just the big-ticket items like chassis and engine, but all the smaller items that you almost ignore. I know when I was doing mine and thought I'd accounted for 'everything' I was still haemorrhaging hundreds of pounds month-on-month on just ‘bits and pieces’. By the time I was finished I could have bought a new Sagaris for the same price!
Let’s say you get a fairly complete Tuscan sans motor, for what…£15k? A decent spec LS motor with ECU and all the ancillaries (and VAT) is going to be up around £10K. £5K for TKO box and clutch (and you’d need to get a new propshaft made up). £5K for paint and powdercoating. We’re at £35K before we’ve even considered all the ‘road legal’ stuff like glass screen, wipers & washers, hot air/blower to screen, second seat?, road tyres (there another £1k), fusebox and wiring, lighting, instrumentation (£1K for an integrated display/logger), mechanical handbrake, road legal mirrors. You may want to replace all the brake lines (I did), new pedal box? You might want to replace some of the ‘used’ parts like rose joints (22IIRC, plus 4 wee ones on the ARBs…ouch!), brake disks (I think the fronts were in the region of £500), wheel bearings, CV joints, balljoints. Just had a diff refurb recently and that’s maybe another £1K as you may want to change the final ratio for the Chevy motor. Radiator OK? Oil coolers (had to replace 2 on mine). Batteries (I used 2 x small/light gel units). And have you seen the price of heat-mat/heat shielding – ouch – but you’ll need it. We’re probably up to £45K now to ‘do it properly’ and we’ve still got the body ‘as last raced’ and bare interior. All the panels are available to smarten it up if you want, but remember you’ll have to make some changes as you can’t use exposed bonnet clips, the standard side exhaust sticks out too far, and you’ll probably want to re-work the body and cage if it’s to be a 2-seater. In idle moments I plot about doing another one – I fancy the idea of a Tuscanster with a cut-down screen and small rear cage and an LS7…but the thought of spending the best part of £50K to do it right somewhat puts me off!
Of course the alternative is get the cheapest car you can start with, bung in the cheapest motor you can find, try to run with the T5 box and do the absolute minimum. I still think you’d end up spending £25K+ and you’d have a can of worms. I can say quite confidently that every single component on mine that was left alone ‘as last raced’ broke and needed to be replaced. Everything I economised on broke. I’m now on engine number 3 as…you guessed it…engines numbers 1 and 2 weren’t specced-up as ‘cost-no-object’.
Not trying to put you off – they are great cars and for me at least press all the right buttons for performance, handling [track focussed clearly], looks and DIY maintainability. But don’t go in to this thinking you’ll get awesome performance on the cheap – it will bleed you dry. But it will be fun.
The road legal stuff really isn’t that tricky (although many will say it is!). Every kit car in the land has to go through an IVA (was SVA), so if Cobra replicas can do it, so can a Tuscan. But you are submitting the car as an ‘amateur build' so if asked you have to be able to prove you built it. For me that was easy as I had photo evidence from a pile of parts to a finished car. But simply adding number plates to a pre-built car isn’t an ‘amateur build’. There is a loophole of sorts in that ‘new’ includes (or at least did when I built mine) ‘refurbished as new’, so although the chassis on mine was clearly an ex-racer, by having it blasted, powder coated and joints replaced it was submitted as ‘refurbished as new’. Then you need to read and re-read the IVA bible. If you read it enough it’s surprising how many work-arounds you can find, but also surprising how many ‘pointless’ regulations you have to adhere to. Mine was SVAs (IVA has a few more regs) and as some examples – you need forced heated air to the screen to demist. Rather than run a heater matrix I ran a 3” diameter pipe from beside the side-exhausts in the left wing through an in-line blower. You need some form of ‘immobilisation’. I managed to put the case forward that the FIA kill-switch with removable key conformed. You don’t actually need a handbrake warning light, but you do need a low brake fluid warning light with the ability to check the bulb/circuit, so most manufacturers use the handbrake indicator as a ‘bulb/circuit’ test. On mine I just put a two-pole switch on the fuel pump, so if the pump is off the low-brake-fluid light comes on – it conforms (but of course you need to make up a low-fluid sensor for the reservoirs). You need a mechanical handbrake - hydraulic brake won't pass. You’ll need indicator side repeaters, hazard warning lights that work with the ignition off, high beam warning, rear fog light warning etc. I also had to do a fair bit of ‘temporary’ work such as padding on the steering wheel, grilles behind the intakes on the body, panelling round the exhaust outlets etc. All do-able though.
Happy to help with any queries – mine got through its SVA in 2007 at just the second attempt (so I believe it was the only TVR registered as new in 2007!) and has been through a few MOTs too now. Not used too much on the road but it knocks up a fair number of track miles – plenty in-car video [mostly Knockhill] – trawl for ‘tvrolet’ on YouTube and you’ll find it. The car runs well on track against all sorts of machinery – quite a lot of it full-on-racers, but mine is sporting number plates and a tax disk
Let’s say you get a fairly complete Tuscan sans motor, for what…£15k? A decent spec LS motor with ECU and all the ancillaries (and VAT) is going to be up around £10K. £5K for TKO box and clutch (and you’d need to get a new propshaft made up). £5K for paint and powdercoating. We’re at £35K before we’ve even considered all the ‘road legal’ stuff like glass screen, wipers & washers, hot air/blower to screen, second seat?, road tyres (there another £1k), fusebox and wiring, lighting, instrumentation (£1K for an integrated display/logger), mechanical handbrake, road legal mirrors. You may want to replace all the brake lines (I did), new pedal box? You might want to replace some of the ‘used’ parts like rose joints (22IIRC, plus 4 wee ones on the ARBs…ouch!), brake disks (I think the fronts were in the region of £500), wheel bearings, CV joints, balljoints. Just had a diff refurb recently and that’s maybe another £1K as you may want to change the final ratio for the Chevy motor. Radiator OK? Oil coolers (had to replace 2 on mine). Batteries (I used 2 x small/light gel units). And have you seen the price of heat-mat/heat shielding – ouch – but you’ll need it. We’re probably up to £45K now to ‘do it properly’ and we’ve still got the body ‘as last raced’ and bare interior. All the panels are available to smarten it up if you want, but remember you’ll have to make some changes as you can’t use exposed bonnet clips, the standard side exhaust sticks out too far, and you’ll probably want to re-work the body and cage if it’s to be a 2-seater. In idle moments I plot about doing another one – I fancy the idea of a Tuscanster with a cut-down screen and small rear cage and an LS7…but the thought of spending the best part of £50K to do it right somewhat puts me off!
Of course the alternative is get the cheapest car you can start with, bung in the cheapest motor you can find, try to run with the T5 box and do the absolute minimum. I still think you’d end up spending £25K+ and you’d have a can of worms. I can say quite confidently that every single component on mine that was left alone ‘as last raced’ broke and needed to be replaced. Everything I economised on broke. I’m now on engine number 3 as…you guessed it…engines numbers 1 and 2 weren’t specced-up as ‘cost-no-object’.
Not trying to put you off – they are great cars and for me at least press all the right buttons for performance, handling [track focussed clearly], looks and DIY maintainability. But don’t go in to this thinking you’ll get awesome performance on the cheap – it will bleed you dry. But it will be fun.
The road legal stuff really isn’t that tricky (although many will say it is!). Every kit car in the land has to go through an IVA (was SVA), so if Cobra replicas can do it, so can a Tuscan. But you are submitting the car as an ‘amateur build' so if asked you have to be able to prove you built it. For me that was easy as I had photo evidence from a pile of parts to a finished car. But simply adding number plates to a pre-built car isn’t an ‘amateur build’. There is a loophole of sorts in that ‘new’ includes (or at least did when I built mine) ‘refurbished as new’, so although the chassis on mine was clearly an ex-racer, by having it blasted, powder coated and joints replaced it was submitted as ‘refurbished as new’. Then you need to read and re-read the IVA bible. If you read it enough it’s surprising how many work-arounds you can find, but also surprising how many ‘pointless’ regulations you have to adhere to. Mine was SVAs (IVA has a few more regs) and as some examples – you need forced heated air to the screen to demist. Rather than run a heater matrix I ran a 3” diameter pipe from beside the side-exhausts in the left wing through an in-line blower. You need some form of ‘immobilisation’. I managed to put the case forward that the FIA kill-switch with removable key conformed. You don’t actually need a handbrake warning light, but you do need a low brake fluid warning light with the ability to check the bulb/circuit, so most manufacturers use the handbrake indicator as a ‘bulb/circuit’ test. On mine I just put a two-pole switch on the fuel pump, so if the pump is off the low-brake-fluid light comes on – it conforms (but of course you need to make up a low-fluid sensor for the reservoirs). You need a mechanical handbrake - hydraulic brake won't pass. You’ll need indicator side repeaters, hazard warning lights that work with the ignition off, high beam warning, rear fog light warning etc. I also had to do a fair bit of ‘temporary’ work such as padding on the steering wheel, grilles behind the intakes on the body, panelling round the exhaust outlets etc. All do-able though.
Happy to help with any queries – mine got through its SVA in 2007 at just the second attempt (so I believe it was the only TVR registered as new in 2007!) and has been through a few MOTs too now. Not used too much on the road but it knocks up a fair number of track miles – plenty in-car video [mostly Knockhill] – trawl for ‘tvrolet’ on YouTube and you’ll find it. The car runs well on track against all sorts of machinery – quite a lot of it full-on-racers, but mine is sporting number plates and a tax disk
Edited by tvrolet on Friday 6th January 10:17
When you've finished you'll end up with a road car that's not as good your existing Griffith to drive/occasional track day use; and you'll have spent enough to have bought yourself either a late T350, perhaps a T2 convertible and maybe even a Sagaris. However the engineering project and the sense of achievement and owning something very different, will make it enjoyable.
Edited to add: Whilst I was typing tvrolet beat me to the post and put it better than I could.
Edited to add: Whilst I was typing tvrolet beat me to the post and put it better than I could.
Edited by TVRinBFG on Friday 6th January 10:32
I looked in to this about 6-8 months ago and found it would cost a small fortune.
I priced it at 30K odd to just get a racer road legal with a cerbera engine. This was with doing all the engineering and fabrication myself. As said above, to do it properly is not easy or cheep and you'll end up with a compromised road car or a heavy and expencinve track car.
I still want one though. With a 4.7 race motor. If i win the lottery i'd have one as a project along with a Speed 12.
I priced it at 30K odd to just get a racer road legal with a cerbera engine. This was with doing all the engineering and fabrication myself. As said above, to do it properly is not easy or cheep and you'll end up with a compromised road car or a heavy and expencinve track car.
I still want one though. With a 4.7 race motor. If i win the lottery i'd have one as a project along with a Speed 12.
There's 7 (I believe) of the 60+ already road legal but as some hint at on here...
Buy a Std Tuscan Challenge Car and Track / Race it = £16K up = £2k for a trailer.
Keep your pristeen TVR for the weekends and tours.
A TCC makes for a cr@p road car except for showing off at the local PH/TVRCC meet
and your road Tiv can't give the thrills acheiveable from a racer.
I've had both and done both.
For ultimate allround TVR thrills I guess an LS conversion is the closest.
LS Cerb/T350/Sag/Griff...all now done.
Buy a Std Tuscan Challenge Car and Track / Race it = £16K up = £2k for a trailer.
Keep your pristeen TVR for the weekends and tours.
A TCC makes for a cr@p road car except for showing off at the local PH/TVRCC meet
and your road Tiv can't give the thrills acheiveable from a racer.I've had both and done both.
For ultimate allround TVR thrills I guess an LS conversion is the closest.
LS Cerb/T350/Sag/Griff...all now done.
Thanks all for your observations. Top marks to tvrolet for possibly the best response I've seen on PH - William yours looks a top build, well done! Probably outside my scope and at that price I could keep the Grif for road and buy a racer for the track! More thought required me thinks!
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