Non N rated tyre experiences anyone?
Discussion
Has anyone managed to fit non N rated tyres to their 993 and taken it for a drive and lived to tell the tale?
I'm not normally one thats fussed about N rating, my insurance company don't give a monkey's what I'm on ( I'm 10000% certain of this and have checked)
But... I've recently seen some N Rated versions of michelins less than the non N rated ones...
So... What is the ACTUAL difference? Is the tread pattern different? Is the rubber compound different? Is the tyre construction different?
Or is it all as, I have suspected, a load of BS especially when talking about 17's for a 20year old model
I'm not normally one thats fussed about N rating, my insurance company don't give a monkey's what I'm on ( I'm 10000% certain of this and have checked)
But... I've recently seen some N Rated versions of michelins less than the non N rated ones...
So... What is the ACTUAL difference? Is the tread pattern different? Is the rubber compound different? Is the tyre construction different?
Or is it all as, I have suspected, a load of BS especially when talking about 17's for a 20year old model
My philosophy, and it's contributed to me having never have had a prang in many years of 'spirited' motoring, is buy the best tyres that are available for your particular vehicle, and that includes manufacturer recommendations (BS or not). We ask much of our tyres; I for one want the best money can buy and what manufacturers recommend. Good luck!
There's a lot of views on N rated tyres.
Check this thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=225...
Check this thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=225...
My old 993 C4 had non-N rated tyres on the front when I bought it (privately). They were virtually brand new so they were on there for about 20k miles before I replaced them with N rated ones. I didn't crash or die in the time that I had the old ones and in fact I didn't notice a dramatic difference when they were changed (maybe I hadn't been driving hard enough). Personally, I would never buy non-N rated; there is not a significant price difference, so why compromise?
rog007 said:
My philosophy, and it's contributed to me having never have had a prang in many years of 'spirited' motoring, is buy the best tyres that are available for your particular vehicle, and that includes manufacturer recommendations (BS or not). We ask much of our tyres; I for one want the best money can buy and what manufacturers recommend. Good luck!
Hmmm - manufacturers do not always do things for safety reasons.If manufacturers took your attitude - surely they would fit the best brakes available to a car ... and yet they don't.
I don't use manufacturer brake pads - they are no use for my type of use. Manufacturers have to deal with the 'average' use of a car - they have no idea where we spend most of our time in town, the country, motorways, or on track.
The only certain fact about N-rated tyres is that it means Porsche has certified that is suitable for your car. It does not mean that other tyres are not suitable.
The issue with a 20 year old car is that most of the original tyres that were certified are no longer made. I typically find that only Continental (amongst the top end brands) manufacture N rated tyres in the correct sizes for old 911s, 928s or 944s. For example, I recently had to switch from Michelen to Continental ContiSportContact 3 on my Club Sport.
As it happens, I think the Contis are excellent tyres, but I would not worry at all about fitting a non N-rated tyre to your 993 as long as it has the correct specification (notably load rating).
Cheers
The issue with a 20 year old car is that most of the original tyres that were certified are no longer made. I typically find that only Continental (amongst the top end brands) manufacture N rated tyres in the correct sizes for old 911s, 928s or 944s. For example, I recently had to switch from Michelen to Continental ContiSportContact 3 on my Club Sport.
As it happens, I think the Contis are excellent tyres, but I would not worry at all about fitting a non N-rated tyre to your 993 as long as it has the correct specification (notably load rating).
Cheers
There have been many discussions about this and everyone has their own opinion.
I have a friend who runs non-N tyres (and not particularly expensive ones at that) on his 993 and he's not noticed any difference. I know of many other 993, 996 and Boxster owners who run non-Ns without problems or scary episodes.
But my experience was different. I ran Bridgestone S02s for quite a while on my 996 as I felt they were a very good all-round tyre WRT dry grip, wet grip and wear.
The last few sets I had fitted were supplied and fitted by an independent who does a good job and knows his stuff. One time they fitted new S02s, the handling was quite different when 'pushing on a bit' to the extent that I double checked the pressures and even suspected maybe they'd accidentally fitted the wrong size of tyre on one or more rims.
In the end, after checking all the markings on the tyres for any anomalies, I realised they were not N marked. I don't think they make them any more, but at that time Bridgstone made S02s in N and non-N but they looked identical in every way. My tyre guy had made a genuine mistake and ordered in the non-Ns and didn't notice. Needless to say, he swapped them over.
So, the possible conclusions I have drawn are:
1. If some people get on OK with non-Ns and don't notice any difference, then perhaps the tyres they fit just happen to suit the 911 and there isn't a difference in handling.
2. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres (particularly of the same make & type), but it's too small to be noticed under normal driving conditions by most drivers.
3. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres and on certain Porsche models, in certain driving conditions and it can be very noticeable, particularly when 'pushing on'.
4. Mixing N and non-N tyres front to rear can highlight any difference between Ns and non-Ns.
Personally, I would stick to Ns.
I have a friend who runs non-N tyres (and not particularly expensive ones at that) on his 993 and he's not noticed any difference. I know of many other 993, 996 and Boxster owners who run non-Ns without problems or scary episodes.
But my experience was different. I ran Bridgestone S02s for quite a while on my 996 as I felt they were a very good all-round tyre WRT dry grip, wet grip and wear.
The last few sets I had fitted were supplied and fitted by an independent who does a good job and knows his stuff. One time they fitted new S02s, the handling was quite different when 'pushing on a bit' to the extent that I double checked the pressures and even suspected maybe they'd accidentally fitted the wrong size of tyre on one or more rims.
In the end, after checking all the markings on the tyres for any anomalies, I realised they were not N marked. I don't think they make them any more, but at that time Bridgstone made S02s in N and non-N but they looked identical in every way. My tyre guy had made a genuine mistake and ordered in the non-Ns and didn't notice. Needless to say, he swapped them over.
So, the possible conclusions I have drawn are:
1. If some people get on OK with non-Ns and don't notice any difference, then perhaps the tyres they fit just happen to suit the 911 and there isn't a difference in handling.
2. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres (particularly of the same make & type), but it's too small to be noticed under normal driving conditions by most drivers.
3. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres and on certain Porsche models, in certain driving conditions and it can be very noticeable, particularly when 'pushing on'.
4. Mixing N and non-N tyres front to rear can highlight any difference between Ns and non-Ns.
Personally, I would stick to Ns.
FurtiveFreddy said:
So, the possible conclusions I have drawn are:
1. If some people get on OK with non-Ns and don't notice any difference, then perhaps the tyres they fit just happen to suit the 911 and there isn't a difference in handling.
2. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres (particularly of the same make & type), but it's too small to be noticed under normal driving conditions by most drivers.
3. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres and on certain Porsche models, in certain driving conditions and it can be very noticeable, particularly when 'pushing on'.
4. Mixing N and non-N tyres front to rear can highlight any difference between Ns and non-Ns.
Personally, I would stick to Ns.
And here in lays the problem with marque specific tyres, more specifically Bridgestone.1. If some people get on OK with non-Ns and don't notice any difference, then perhaps the tyres they fit just happen to suit the 911 and there isn't a difference in handling.
2. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres (particularly of the same make & type), but it's too small to be noticed under normal driving conditions by most drivers.
3. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres and on certain Porsche models, in certain driving conditions and it can be very noticeable, particularly when 'pushing on'.
4. Mixing N and non-N tyres front to rear can highlight any difference between Ns and non-Ns.
Personally, I would stick to Ns.
Bridgestone are OEM crazy, and tyres like the RE040A / RE050A can have about 20+ different variants. Some of the variants simply have a different approval on the side, some are fairly modified.
In the example of the S02, I believe Porsche made significant changes to the compound AND construction to other S02's, so if you ended up with something like a Merc spec tyre which was optimised for comfort and tread life compared to the vanilla version, where as the N rated tyre was optimised for grip and feedback, they might as well be totally different tyres.
At the other end of the spectrum I would be surprised if the N rated Pilot Super Sport is much different from the aftermarket version.
As someone else said above, in my opinion tyre quality is more important than N rating in these older sizes.
FurtiveFreddy said:
So, the possible conclusions I have drawn are:
1. If some people get on OK with non-Ns and don't notice any difference, then perhaps the tyres they fit just happen to suit the 911 and there isn't a difference in handling.
2. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres (particularly of the same make & type), but it's too small to be noticed under normal driving conditions by most drivers.
3. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres and on certain Porsche models, in certain driving conditions and it can be very noticeable, particularly when 'pushing on'.
4. Mixing N and non-N tyres front to rear can highlight any difference between Ns and non-Ns.
Personally, I would stick to Ns.
The N's are not necessarily any different in structure or compound to the non N's though. As stefan says, N rating is an approval stamp, and nothing more. I guess the trouble is that we have no way of knowing the details - so of course choosing N-rated is 'safer'.1. If some people get on OK with non-Ns and don't notice any difference, then perhaps the tyres they fit just happen to suit the 911 and there isn't a difference in handling.
2. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres (particularly of the same make & type), but it's too small to be noticed under normal driving conditions by most drivers.
3. There is a handling difference between N and non-N rated tyres and on certain Porsche models, in certain driving conditions and it can be very noticeable, particularly when 'pushing on'.
4. Mixing N and non-N tyres front to rear can highlight any difference between Ns and non-Ns.
Personally, I would stick to Ns.
I was advised this morning by a tyre supplier that insurance companies will be insisting on n-rated tyres for Porsches - though it's unclear what the mechanism is for that.
Joe911 said:
The N's are not necessarily any different in structure or compound to the non N's though.
I agreed with this in my post. All I can say from my experience was that S02s were significantly different and I suspect the sidewall stiffness was the main factor there.Jon's post above sums the situation up perfectly AFAIAC.
Nurburgsingh said:
Having run FK452's on my 944 and 968's in 16 and 17's I think I might take a punt on a set of those first.
Since I used to run them as my "wets" for trackdays i know that they are ok when "pressing on"...
...but.... a 993 is a fair bit fatter than a track car... hmmm....
Running 18" FK452's on our 986s. Working well on the road and they were good at the 'Ring. Took a fair while to scrub in fully though.Since I used to run them as my "wets" for trackdays i know that they are ok when "pressing on"...
...but.... a 993 is a fair bit fatter than a track car... hmmm....
I have the same doom and gloom conversation with my tyre place every time, about certain death/lack of insurance coverage with non-N tyres...until I remind him that my 951 is an '88 and the N rating came in in '92...
I run the Falken 452s
I would be very surprised if any insurance company cared what tyres you were running as long as they were of road-legal tread pattern and depth
I run the Falken 452s
I would be very surprised if any insurance company cared what tyres you were running as long as they were of road-legal tread pattern and depth
Technically you'd be wise to notify your insurance company if you went for non-standard wide, profile or load ratings (very important). Speed ratings aren't so important.
Marque approval isn't one I've heard of, apart from in examples where the handbook specifies it as a requirement (Veryon springs to mind, not sure how well it would run on a set of nankangs)
Marque approval isn't one I've heard of, apart from in examples where the handbook specifies it as a requirement (Veryon springs to mind, not sure how well it would run on a set of nankangs)
Joe911 said:
Fat Albert said:
I would be very surprised if any insurance company cared what tyres you were running as long as they were of road-legal tread pattern and depth
I suspect it's just another tool in the toolbox for avoiding a payout 
Im also sure that it recommends that I only fit OE everything else... so are we now expecting insurance companies to quibble over your claim because the wipers/battery/screenwash/air in the tyres are from halfords and not OE?..
..oh wait no.. that's just the OPC's and the 111 point rip off...
Nurburgsingh said:
On what basis would they enforce it? Without checking Im sure my owners manual says that it is "recommended" that I fit N2's which probably are no longer available.
Im also sure that it recommends that I only fit OE everything else... so are we now expecting insurance companies to quibble over your claim because the wipers/battery/screenwash/air in the tyres are from halfords and not OE?..
..oh wait no.. that's just the OPC's and the 111 point rip off...
I would guess most policies state that you must notify them if the car is 'non-standard' and is 'modified' - so they can pretty much get you on anything with that one!Im also sure that it recommends that I only fit OE everything else... so are we now expecting insurance companies to quibble over your claim because the wipers/battery/screenwash/air in the tyres are from halfords and not OE?..
..oh wait no.. that's just the OPC's and the 111 point rip off...
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