Registering a car abroad to avoid hefty VED?

[zcacogp]

Chaps,

This may be the musings of a dimwit, in which case please forgive me.

The prices of VED in the UK are hefty (and rising); what is the situation in Europe?

Assuming it is cheaper in Germany/France/Spain, what is preventing you from registering your Cayenne Turbo / AMG Unimog / <InsertOtherHighVEDCarHere> in Europe and paying the VED there, while keeping the car in the UK? I can understand that you'd need a friend who lives in the country in question at whose address the car would be registered, and there may be issues with insurance (done via a UK or foreign company), but these aren't insurmountable.

As I said, this may be a phenomenally stupid question, in which case please be patient ...


Oli.

[Fox-]

zcacogp said:

Chaps,

This may be the musings of a dimwit, in which case please forgive me.

The prices of VED in the UK are hefty (and rising); what is the situation in Europe?

Much worse. We have it very easy when it comes to VED compared to most of the rest of Europe!

[Arbedark]

zcacogp said:

what is preventing you from registering your Cayenne Turbo / AMG Unimog / <InsertOtherHighVEDCarHere> in Europe and paying the VED there, while keeping the car in the UK?

At a guess, the Fraud Act 2006?

[NateWM]

Fox- said:

Much worse. We have it very easy when it comes to VED compared to most of the rest of Europe!

Indeed. As said in another thread, my Lexus is costing 1800 euro a year to tax, and thats for a 3 litre straight six. Anything like a Cayenne V8 or something larger will see you paying thousands.

The only motoring related bonus is that the insurance for young drivers is very cheap here.

[kaf]

Then try insuring it......................

[Mr GrimNasty]

Basically you can't do it if you are resident here anyway.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSell...

[zcacogp]

Fox- said:

Much worse. We have it very easy when it comes to VED compared to most of the rest of Europe!

Really? Whoosh. I pity zee chermans. Even for the first year (a bag of sand here in good ol' blighty)?

Out of interest, if you import a used band M car, do you still have to pay the high 'first year rate' for the first year, even though it is over a year old?


Oli.

[LeoZwalf]

The RFL system here in Germany is quite complex and depends on lots of factors.

- When car was first registered
- Petrol or diesel
- Engine capacity
- Emmissions group (Euro 2, 3, 4 etc...)

To give you an idea, I have a 1995 1.8 petrol Mondeo. It costs around €270 per year to tax.

Also you have to be registered as living here to register a car to your name. Without the document to say you live here, you cannot register the car.

If you fancy taking a look and practicing your German, take a look here and have a play around with the various emission groups, engine sizes etc and see what your car might cost to tax here.

http://www.kfz-steuer.de/kfz-steuer_pkw.php

A little OT but in Germany many cities now have low emmission zones in the big cities. To drive in the city limits (which does include quite a bit of suburb, not just the city centre) the car must display a sticker. There are three colours as follows:

Red (2) - diesel cars of older emmission groups (AFAIK with mechanical pump and so quite heavy on particulates)

Yellow (3) - more modern diesel cars (probably Common Rail) without diesel particulate filter

Green (4) - 'modern' diesels with DPF and any petrol with a catalytic converter

In Frankfurt you are only allowed to drive in the city limits with the green sticker since 1st Jan this year. Since 1st Jan 2010 you were only allowed Green and Yellow and (I think) a couple of years before that you were allowed to drive any colour but had to display the sticker. The sticker is €5 and even visitors have to (are supposed to...) display it. They must have made a mint from that idea.

Couple that with the price of 2nd hand cars here and realise that in the UK you have it VERY easy!!!

[andyps]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Basically you can't do it if you are resident here anyway.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSell...

This unfortunately.

I have a house in France so could relatively easily register my car there where there is no VED saving money each year. In addition my local council don't charge non UK registered vehicles in pay and display car parks and there may be benefits in terms of speed cameras. Trouble is, it isn't legal in itself because the car would spend more than 6 months a year in the UK.

One thing the link indicates is that it is not legal for a UK resident to drive a car in the UK which is registered elsewhere in the EU. This does mean that motoring journalists must regularly drive illegally as they often use EU registered vehicles in the UK for road tests. Anyone from PH care to comment?

[bqf]

Thought about that - I have a house in France and thought about registering my Touareg and E55 there. Total non-starter.

1. Inusrnace problems - where do I live? Why will you spend most of your time in the UK, etc
2. Carte Grise - dearer and more painful than MOT, but only every 2 years
3. But the killer, no savings on duty

Forget about it

[vz-r_dave]

LeoZwalf said:

The RFL system here in Germany is quite complex and depends on lots of factors.

- When car was first registered
- Petrol or diesel
- Engine capacity
- Emmissions group (Euro 2, 3, 4 etc...)

To give you an idea, I have a 1995 1.8 petrol Mondeo. It costs around €270 per year to tax.

Also you have to be registered as living here to register a car to your name. Without the document to say you live here, you cannot register the car.

If you fancy taking a look and practicing your German, take a look here and have a play around with the various emission groups, engine sizes etc and see what your car might cost to tax here.

http://www.kfz-steuer.de/kfz-steuer_pkw.php

A little OT but in Germany many cities now have low emmission zones in the big cities. To drive in the city limits (which does include quite a bit of suburb, not just the city centre) the car must display a sticker. There are three colours as follows:

Red (2) - diesel cars of older emmission groups (AFAIK with mechanical pump and so quite heavy on particulates)

Yellow (3) - more modern diesel cars (probably Common Rail) without diesel particulate filter

Green (4) - 'modern' diesels with DPF and any petrol with a catalytic converter

In Frankfurt you are only allowed to drive in the city limits with the green sticker since 1st Jan this year. Since 1st Jan 2010 you were only allowed Green and Yellow and (I think) a couple of years before that you were allowed to drive any colour but had to display the sticker. The sticker is €5 and even visitors have to (are supposed to...) display it. They must have made a mint from that idea.

Couple that with the price of 2nd hand cars here and realise that in the UK you have it VERY easy!!!

Leo I tend to disagree ;-)

[LeoZwalf]

Hello Dave!

What do you disagree with? Most of what I wrote is fact, you can't disagree with fact.

[zcacogp]

OK, chat between Leo and Dave notwithstanding, it looks like it's a) illegal and b) possibly not cheaper compared to the likes of Germany.

Call me stupid, but I'd have thought that the EU-integration thing should make this sort of caper quite possible, legal and (possibly) easy - non? Can of worms opened, I'm sure, but it looks like another example of the EU working very well when it costs us something, but our own government making it illegal when it comes to doing things that should favour us ...

Thanks for the answers, chaps.

(Over to you, Leo and Dave.)


Oli.

[steviegunn]

Not sure how these things are enforced but I know of a fair few eastern European registered cars that have been in the UK constantly for a lot longer than 6 months.

[LeoZwalf]

zcacogp said:

I'd have thought that the EU-integration thing should make this sort of caper quite possible, legal and (possibly) easy - non?

Non (or Nein, if you prefer )

I cannot claim to know much about EU law at all so cannot explain why things are the way they are. Each country has its own way of doing things and despite the EU integration they still all have their own interests to protect.

FWIW I reckon the German way of doing car things (although a total PITA) makes a lot more sense. You have to be resident and provide an insurance code number to register the car to yourself and therefore get the number plates. No proof that you live here or no insurance, no registration and no plates! (You hand in the previous plates too).

Having said that I don't like how overly strict they are on modifications and I'm not sure I like the inner city emmission sticker system described above although it means the air in the city is very clean.

[karona]

steviegunn said:

Not sure how these things are enforced but I know of a fair few eastern European registered cars that have been in the UK constantly for a lot longer than 6 months.

To register a car in Bulgaria:
You must have a long-stay (five year) 'visa' and proof of residence, both readily obtained but a paperwork nightmare.
One off visit to police to register the car, MOT it (Headlamps must be replaced with European lights)and change the plates. Sounds easy but takes all day bouncing between offices.
One off "Eco-Tax" of a couple of hundred quid depending on emissions and age of vehicle.
One off registration with the municipal headquarters of the region in which you live, and an annual tax of around a hundred quid.
Compulsory third party insurance, around 60 quid, with another tenner for a Green Card.
Annual 'technical inspection', which is a complete joke. Lights, emissions and rolling road brake test, and costs fifteen quid.
Plus you have to get here and back every March.

[LeoZwalf]

steviegunn said:

Not sure how these things are enforced but I know of a fair few eastern European registered cars that have been in the UK constantly for a lot longer than 6 months.

They probably are not enforced proactively. If one of these eastern fellows was unlucky enough to be pulled by one of the UK's finest then would be his comeuppance (perhaps).

I know people who moved from UK to Germany and did not register their UK car here for over 6 months, never had a problem with the Polizei or even curtain twitching German neighbours.

[Haggleburyfinius]

LeoZwalf said:

steviegunn said:

Not sure how these things are enforced but I know of a fair few eastern European registered cars that have been in the UK constantly for a lot longer than 6 months.

They probably are not enforced proactively. If one of these eastern fellows was unlucky enough to be pulled by one of the UK's finest then would be his comeuppance (perhaps).

I know people who moved from UK to Germany and did not register their UK car here for over 6 months, never had a problem with the Polizei or even curtain twitching German neighbours.

There are foreign registered cars in my car park (about 5/6) that have been here for years!

I suspect that dealing with them is near the bottom of a very long list of police priorities.

[zcacogp]

LeoZwalf said:

FWIW I reckon the German way of doing car things (although a total PITA) makes a lot more sense. You have to be resident and provide an insurance code number to register the car to yourself and therefore get the number plates. No proof that you live here or no insurance, no registration and no plates! (You hand in the previous plates too).

Interesting. I didn't know the details of the German system, but knew (or guessed!) that it would be rigorous. I do know that the Germans have the lowest incidence of uninsured drivers in Europe (Greece the highest) and wonder whether that is a result of rigorous systems or of the prevailing German mindset to do things correctly.


Oli.

[LeoZwalf]

zcacogp said:

nteresting. I didn't know the details of the German system, but knew (or guessed!) that it would be rigorous. I do know that the Germans have the lowest incidence of uninsured drivers in Europe (Greece the highest) and wonder whether that is a result of rigorous systems or of the prevailing German mindset to do things correctly.


Oli.

Take a butchers at this thread in case you're interested in knowing how it works in D.

http://mobile.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=...

Sorry, it's the PH mobile URL :-/

The crux is that you cannot register the car (get docs and plates) in your name without 1) proving you are resident and 2) having insurance. Makes perfect sense and would save the UK industry and motorists a lot if the adopted a similar system.