I've just blanked my EGR valve off...
Discussion
...and I want to pick the brains of the PH collective.
Yes, I know the topic is dicussed here all the time, but this one is a little different.
I have just road tested my 2003 Mondeo TDCI after removing the EGR valve, giving it a damn good clean, and re-fitting it with a blind gasket to prevent the exhaust gasses re-entering the valve. First impressions are good- the engine feels more flexible in terms of delivering torque from low revs and following through to higher revs without any nasty flat spots. The soot from the exhaust is no longer visible in the rear view mirror, and if the 'net is to be believed, the engine will run more economically.
The disadvantages? I'm not sure. Blanking the EGR valve is a popular and well-documented modification, but no-one has really followed up on any conversations with feedback 30k miles later to let everybody know whether it caused any problems down the line. To compound the problem, some people on the 'net are saying that this mod will cause reduced power, economy, and might increase exhaust gas temperatures.
So, is there anyone well-informed on PH who can give me a definitive answer on the disadvantages of this mod?
A trawl of recent EGR-related threads just revealed lots of ill-informed speculation about why the valve was there in the first place if it's so beneficial to de-activate it! (We all know it's for cleaning up exhaust gasses, right?)
Yes, I know the topic is dicussed here all the time, but this one is a little different.
I have just road tested my 2003 Mondeo TDCI after removing the EGR valve, giving it a damn good clean, and re-fitting it with a blind gasket to prevent the exhaust gasses re-entering the valve. First impressions are good- the engine feels more flexible in terms of delivering torque from low revs and following through to higher revs without any nasty flat spots. The soot from the exhaust is no longer visible in the rear view mirror, and if the 'net is to be believed, the engine will run more economically.
The disadvantages? I'm not sure. Blanking the EGR valve is a popular and well-documented modification, but no-one has really followed up on any conversations with feedback 30k miles later to let everybody know whether it caused any problems down the line. To compound the problem, some people on the 'net are saying that this mod will cause reduced power, economy, and might increase exhaust gas temperatures.
So, is there anyone well-informed on PH who can give me a definitive answer on the disadvantages of this mod?
A trawl of recent EGR-related threads just revealed lots of ill-informed speculation about why the valve was there in the first place if it's so beneficial to de-activate it! (We all know it's for cleaning up exhaust gasses, right?)
I've recently done the same to my Passat tdi (which is not common rail) and although I've only done about 2k miles since, the results seem to be quite positive.
It runs better with no flat spots and it no longer emits the embarrassing plumes of black smoke that it used to when accelerating.
With regard to fuel consumption, it seems to depend on the sort of driving I do, with the car giving better mpg during normal driving and long runs, but poorer mpg during stop start traffic.
I have to do a lot of stop start driving and find the overall consumption much the same, but I think for more general mixed driving the consumption would be better overall with the egr blanked.
It runs better with no flat spots and it no longer emits the embarrassing plumes of black smoke that it used to when accelerating.
With regard to fuel consumption, it seems to depend on the sort of driving I do, with the car giving better mpg during normal driving and long runs, but poorer mpg during stop start traffic.
I have to do a lot of stop start driving and find the overall consumption much the same, but I think for more general mixed driving the consumption would be better overall with the egr blanked.
Just done it to our Alfa 147 JTD [8 valve]
Just a question, I notied on some plates there was holes drilled in them [for the 16 valave] but no plates available for the 8 valve which is a different shape so I made one with small holes in it. Is this OK? or should it be completely blank?
Our symtoms were holding back under power and black smoke at rear.
I'd also like to know any pitfalls, long term effects. cheers
Just a question, I notied on some plates there was holes drilled in them [for the 16 valave] but no plates available for the 8 valve which is a different shape so I made one with small holes in it. Is this OK? or should it be completely blank?
Our symtoms were holding back under power and black smoke at rear.
I'd also like to know any pitfalls, long term effects. cheers
macdeb]Just done it to our Alfa 147 JTD [8 valve said:
Just a question, I notied on some plates there was holes drilled in them [for the 16 valave] but no plates available for the 8 valve which is a different shape so I made one with small holes in it. Is this OK? or should it be completely blank?
Our symtoms were holding back under power and black smoke at rear.
I'd also like to know any pitfalls, long term effects. cheers
Some vehicles need the holes to allow the egr valve to operate partially so that the eml light does not come on, but I think it would best not to have the holes if they are not needed for this.Our symtoms were holding back under power and black smoke at rear.
I'd also like to know any pitfalls, long term effects. cheers
Thanks for the responses so far, you've pretty much confirmed that I don't have much to worry about!
I think I might see slightly lower MPG on my short runs to work but on a longer run I suspect it'll be better. The net effect will be slightly worse MPG but the improvement in drivability and long-term health will make it worthwhile. I did disconnect the battery so that the ECU could 're-learn' it's parameters so it might get better over the next 100 miles or so.
Before I did it, there was an awkward flat spot between 1500 and 1800RPM, where the valve opens and sneezes a load of particulates into the inlet manifold. I was constantly having to drive round this flat spot before which is very irritating because at a cruise you're using this part of the rev range. If you do try to use an appreciable amount of throttle opening in this rev range, you'd get a massive cloud of smoke from the exhaust.
The car is much better now, feels like the engine it always should've been, It was free to do and the smoke is gone... #WINNING
I think I might see slightly lower MPG on my short runs to work but on a longer run I suspect it'll be better. The net effect will be slightly worse MPG but the improvement in drivability and long-term health will make it worthwhile. I did disconnect the battery so that the ECU could 're-learn' it's parameters so it might get better over the next 100 miles or so.
Before I did it, there was an awkward flat spot between 1500 and 1800RPM, where the valve opens and sneezes a load of particulates into the inlet manifold. I was constantly having to drive round this flat spot before which is very irritating because at a cruise you're using this part of the rev range. If you do try to use an appreciable amount of throttle opening in this rev range, you'd get a massive cloud of smoke from the exhaust.
The car is much better now, feels like the engine it always should've been, It was free to do and the smoke is gone... #WINNING
Slightly off topic, but I dont suppose I could talk you into helping me do mine on my mondeo 2.2 st tddci? Been meaning to do it for ages but dont feel too confident about doing it on my own.
I'll bring the car to you, buy all the parts and give you beer/beer tokens for your trouble...
I'll bring the car to you, buy all the parts and give you beer/beer tokens for your trouble...
slaveunit- as much as I'd be happy to help, I'm afraid I confine my amateurish spanner 'skills' to my own cars... I just can't work on other people's cars with the same confidence.
I will say that if you can change a wheel you can fit the EGR valve blank, it really is that easy. Even if you want to remove and clean the EGR valve it's an easy job.
If it helps I can get some pictures, or do a bit of a write-up?
P.S. have you checked your car isn't going to throw up an Engine Management warning light? If you have the older style EGR valve like I do it won't, but if you have a later car with electrical connections on the EGR valve it will throw a warning light up.
I will say that if you can change a wheel you can fit the EGR valve blank, it really is that easy. Even if you want to remove and clean the EGR valve it's an easy job.
If it helps I can get some pictures, or do a bit of a write-up?
P.S. have you checked your car isn't going to throw up an Engine Management warning light? If you have the older style EGR valve like I do it won't, but if you have a later car with electrical connections on the EGR valve it will throw a warning light up.
oakdale said:
macdeb]Just done it to our Alfa 147 JTD [8 valve said:
Just a question, I notied on some plates there was holes drilled in them [for the 16 valave] but no plates available for the 8 valve which is a different shape so I made one with small holes in it. Is this OK? or should it be completely blank?
Our symtoms were holding back under power and black smoke at rear.
I'd also like to know any pitfalls, long term effects. cheers
Some vehicles need the holes to allow the egr valve to operate partially so that the eml light does not come on, but I think it would best not to have the holes if they are not needed for this.Our symtoms were holding back under power and black smoke at rear.
I'd also like to know any pitfalls, long term effects. cheers
Did his to my wifes Rover 75 cdti (BMW 2.0 turbo diesel engine) about 3 years ago
It runs slightly smoother, pulls slightly harder and returns good mpg
Only 'problem' I have encountered was when I plugged it into an engine management scanner and it came back with 'EGR low performance' or some other utter irrelevence. No dash lights or bongs. If there were I would pull the fuse on it...
Blank it and forget, it strangles the engine and its only there for some daft EU emissions rule. If the 75 had a DPF that would be off too. Pointless rubbish imo.
It runs slightly smoother, pulls slightly harder and returns good mpg
Only 'problem' I have encountered was when I plugged it into an engine management scanner and it came back with 'EGR low performance' or some other utter irrelevence. No dash lights or bongs. If there were I would pull the fuse on it...
Blank it and forget, it strangles the engine and its only there for some daft EU emissions rule. If the 75 had a DPF that would be off too. Pointless rubbish imo.
A good article here on EGR and why it can be good when done properly:
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_112612/article.html
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_112612/article.html
macdeb]Just done it to our Alfa 147 JTD [8 valve said:
Just a question, I notied on some plates there was holes drilled in them [for the 16 valave] but no plates available for the 8 valve which is a different shape so I made one with small holes in it. Is this OK? or should it be completely blank?
As far as I know the JTD engine management will not be affected if the plate is totally blank.Evoluzione said:
A good article here on EGR and why it can be good when done properly:
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_112612/article.html
agreed http://autospeed.com/cms/A_112612/article.html
in a few years when every new car is turbo'd and on GDi they'll all have cooled EGR
its gains are too big to ignore
oakdale said:
I've recently done the same to my Passat tdi (which is not common rail) and although I've only done about 2k miles since, the results seem to be quite positive.
It runs better with no flat spots and it no longer emits the embarrassing plumes of black smoke that it used to when accelerating.
With regard to fuel consumption, it seems to depend on the sort of driving I do, with the car giving better mpg during normal driving and long runs, but poorer mpg during stop start traffic.
I have to do a lot of stop start driving and find the overall consumption much the same, but I think for more general mixed driving the consumption would be better overall with the egr blanked.
What Passat have you got ? I've got a 53 2003 TDI 100, and the eml is on so i was thinking about cleaning up the EGR valve. Maybe i should blank it offIt runs better with no flat spots and it no longer emits the embarrassing plumes of black smoke that it used to when accelerating.
With regard to fuel consumption, it seems to depend on the sort of driving I do, with the car giving better mpg during normal driving and long runs, but poorer mpg during stop start traffic.
I have to do a lot of stop start driving and find the overall consumption much the same, but I think for more general mixed driving the consumption would be better overall with the egr blanked.
dmitsi said:
macdeb]Just done it to our Alfa 147 JTD [8 valve said:
Just a question, I notied on some plates there was holes drilled in them [for the 16 valave] but no plates available for the 8 valve which is a different shape so I made one with small holes in it. Is this OK? or should it be completely blank?
As far as I know the JTD engine management will not be affected if the plate is totally blank.Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff