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McSam

Original Poster:

5,421 posts

59 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
I have a photocard driving licence, but I have absolutely no foggiest notion where my paper counterpart has ended up. Moving in and out of home and hall flats and houses all the time, it may well have succumbed to the abyss, and I really have looked rather hard as I was told I'd need it at Palmersport and remembered I didn't know where it was the night before I was going! I got lucky, they didn't need it, but still.

So I thought I'd better order a replacement, but these cost £20, and being a typical student I thought do I really need to spend that? I can't think what I would actually need the paper counterpart for.

If I get pulled over, is it going to present a big problem that I actually need to order a new paper licence before I can produce one for any points I might get? Do I need to send it off to get my photo updated when that time comes?

And I see that you can only order both the photocard and the paper licence together, so will I end up with two photocards? Seems a bit daft, but kinda cool in a completely useless way hehe

MrKipling43

5,697 posts

100 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
Waits for people to come along and go mental because you've moved house and not changed the address on your licence...

Replace it when you get tugged/need it, that's what I'd do.

Graebob

2,167 posts

91 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
The license is only valid if you have both parts.

If you order a new one you will be required to send back the old photocard (they have version numbers and if you present an old version it will be confiscated and you'll have to prove you have the new one).

There is a small loophole in that if you change address you get a new license, so some people use this to get rid of old points that still appear (points expire after three years, ink takes a bit longer). So if you were to theoretically change your license address and change it back again, you'd have a new shiny paper counterpart. This is probably fraud.

However, in order to change the address, you have to fill out the change of address part on... the paper counterpart wink

Stump up the £20 and be more careful next time smile

McSam

Original Poster:

5,421 posts

59 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
No, change of address isn't an issue - my permanent residence hasn't changed, it's simply that in term time I've been living in student houses nearer to my university.

I didn't know that the licences have version numbers on them, but that makes sense, thanks for the info there - I presume there's no reason I can't claim I've lost both parts, get a new photocard while keeping the old one? I could then use the old one as ID and so on at no risk of actually losing the valid driving licence, handy smile

Any idea how long replacements take to turn up?

Buff Mchugelarge

1,978 posts

34 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
I sent mine off as i lost the paper bit a week before my test rolleyes

Posted it Monday, had it back thursday morning smile
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McSam

Original Poster:

5,421 posts

59 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
Always the way!

Glad to know they're not too much of a government-run office about the turnaround times, though smile

kaf

323 posts

31 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
If you get stopped for an offence, such as speeding, to accept a fixed penalty you have to surrender your licence.....both bits.

If you can't you may well find you have to go to court, this will be much more expensive than £20.

Get a new one.

Graebob

2,167 posts

91 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
McSam said:
I didn't know that the licences have version numbers on them, but that makes sense, thanks for the info there - I presume there's no reason I can't claim I've lost both parts, get a new photocard while keeping the old one? I could then use the old one as ID and so on at no risk of actually losing the valid driving licence, handy smile
I did exactly this. Just make sure you don't get the two photocards mixed up, as you will get a very stty letter from the DVLA asking why you didn't hand in the old one...

The system is bureaucratic enough when you're following the rules; if you wait until you need the thing and then expect them to bend over backwards to help you, you'll end up frustrated and unable to do whatever it is you need the thing for. I'd imagine plod will take a relatively dim view if you're given a 7 day producer and your excuse is "oh, I lost the old one".

Not being a nazi, just advising smile As for timing, I've had my license come back in less than a week for an address change, but it took them 2 months to sort out the cock up where they had the wrong offence code against my points when I received the updated address.

Edited by Graebob on Thursday 2nd February 15:26

McSam

Original Poster:

5,421 posts

59 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
kaf said:
If you get stopped for an offence, such as speeding, to accept a fixed penalty you have to surrender your licence.....both bits.

If you can't you may well find you have to go to court, this will be much more expensive than £20.

Get a new one.
Mmm - but isn't there a deadline in the region of 30 days for such things? If I can get a replacement in a few days, it shouldn't cause a problem, should it?

I was just wondering if there was some situation requiring urgent/immediate production of licence that I might get caught out by.

marshalla

10,111 posts

85 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
McSam said:
No, change of address isn't an issue - my permanent residence hasn't changed, it's simply that in term time I've been living in student houses nearer to my university.
That's a shame. ISTR that replacement for change of address is free and can be done online if you have a recent passport on the system too wink



Edited by marshalla on Thursday 2nd February 15:27

McSam

Original Poster:

5,421 posts

59 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
I could do the change of address thing, if I didn't need the missing paper component to do it! hehe

Graebob said:
McSam said:
I didn't know that the licences have version numbers on them, but that makes sense, thanks for the info there - I presume there's no reason I can't claim I've lost both parts, get a new photocard while keeping the old one? I could then use the old one as ID and so on at no risk of actually losing the valid driving licence, handy smile
I did exactly this. Just make sure you don't get the two photocards mixed up, as you will get a very stty letter from the DVLA asking why you didn't hand in the old one...

The system is bureaucratic enough when you're following the rules; if you wait until you need the thing and then expect them to bend over backwards to help you, you'll end up frustrated and unable to do whatever it is you need the thing for. I'd imagine plod will take a relatively dim view if you're given a 7 day producer and your excuse is "oh, I lost the old one".

Not being a nazi, just advising smile As for timing, I've had my license come back in less than a week for an address change, but it took them 2 months to sort out the cock up where they had the wrong offence code against my points when I received the updated address.
I see what you mean. While I know the timeframe for FPNs is quite long, if I got a shorter producer like that, odds are I'd have a problem. And that's likely to be in a situation where I really don't want to be worrying about where my paper licence has got to, on top of everything else!

I think, on balance, the best thing would be to re-order both parts, keeping the old photocard but marking it on the back with a permanent pen dot or something so I don't screw up and mix them up should the situation arise. I shall report back on how long it takes them to deliver the thing, too!

Cheers guys smile

Hooli

27,381 posts

84 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
Isn't this where you write to them asking where your new licence is that you sent in for a new address a month or so ago. They admit to loosing 10% of mail so I expect they'd provide it free. I'd try it as I pay enough tax already to fund the DVLA, I don't believe I should have to pay again for them.

jhfozzy

1,026 posts

74 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
McSam said:
I could do the change of address thing, if I didn't need the missing paper component to do it! hehe
You can change your address online, this way you don't need the paper counterpart, but..... If you haven't got both bits to send back to them, you'll still have to pay a fee so it's not a free option.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Motoringtrans...

Mind you, you could return your photocard and the "paper counterpart" by registered post and the envelope "could" split mid journey. This way you'd have done your part and RM would be liable for the loss and therefore the £20 replacement fee. Not that I'd ever condone such fraudulent action.

ETA: As above.

Pontoneer

3,464 posts

70 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
kaf said:
If you get stopped for an offence, such as speeding, to accept a fixed penalty you have to surrender your licence.....both bits.
.
In England , but not in Scotland smile

Rollcage

11,287 posts

76 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
Last couple of times I've been stopped for a "chat" my driver license details haven't been up to date, but I do know my driver number, and it has never been a problem!

I do now have a shiny photocard license with the correct details on it for the first time in about eight years - the relief was enourmous!

Pontoneer

3,464 posts

70 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
Graebob said:
in order to change the address, you have to fill out the change of address part on... the paper counterpart wink
You can do it online .

They do ask you to send both parts back ; but if they write some time later to tell you they never received it , you will just have to tell them you posted it but it must have gone astray frown

Just as with SORN notifications , the Interpretation Act states that something posted is deemed to have been delivered , so they cannot penalise you for something getting lost in the Post ( or within DVLA ) smile

Pontoneer

3,464 posts

70 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
jhfozzy said:
You can change your address online, this way you don't need the paper counterpart, but..... If you haven't got both bits to send back to them, you'll still have to pay a fee so it's not a free option.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Motoringtrans...

Mind you, you could return your photocard and the "paper counterpart" by registered post and the envelope "could" split mid journey. This way you'd have done your part and RM would be liable for the loss and therefore the £20 replacement fee. Not that I'd ever condone such fraudulent action.

ETA: As above.
Better still , if they don't receive ANYTHING , how could they prove you never posted it in the first place ?

No need for registered , signed for or Special Delivery - although I supose you COULD post an empty envelope and have it signed for biggrin

McSam

Original Poster:

5,421 posts

59 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
Pontoneer said:
Better still , if they don't receive ANYTHING , how could they prove you never posted it in the first place ?

No need for registered , signed for or Special Delivery - although I supose you COULD post an empty envelope and have it signed for biggrin
This is what interests me now - I believe that anything sent by First Class post is deemed legally served?

Hmmm. I suppose it would be fraud for me to do the change of address thing online (thanks for the heads up about that!), "send" my licence in, and then simply tell them it must have got lost. But hey, it's not like the DVLA treat us lot terribly fairly with RFL and other matters, so I can't say I'd feel guilty..

Trouble is, I don't especially want my licencing details held against my term time address - it'll need changing back in June. Think there'll be a dim view taken of that?

Hooli

27,381 posts

84 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
McSam said:
Pontoneer said:
Better still , if they don't receive ANYTHING , how could they prove you never posted it in the first place ?

No need for registered , signed for or Special Delivery - although I supose you COULD post an empty envelope and have it signed for biggrin
This is what interests me now - I believe that anything sent by First Class post is deemed legally served?

Hmmm. I suppose it would be fraud for me to do the change of address thing online (thanks for the heads up about that!), "send" my licence in, and then simply tell them it must have got lost. But hey, it's not like the DVLA treat us lot terribly fairly with RFL and other matters, so I can't say I'd feel guilty..

Trouble is, I don't especially want my licencing details held against my term time address - it'll need changing back in June. Think there'll be a dim view taken of that?
Just send it back & change it back to your original address, say it was a change of plan if asked. They won't ask though, they never do.

McSam

Original Poster:

5,421 posts

59 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd February 2012 quote quote all
Hooli said:
Just send it back & change it back to your original address, say it was a change of plan if asked. They won't ask though, they never do.
Happy days.

Thanks all!
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