Petrol tank removal/upgrade advise

[Hollowpockets]

Hey lads,

I've removed the floor panel below the engine bay and the nuts which hold the alloy angle brackets tight against the tank (similar to the battery clamping bracket) but they dont seem to be coming loose.

Are the angle bits threaded to hold the bar or do I just need to give them a smack with a mallet to free them up?

I'm taking it out to have baffles put in and change the outlet pipe and fit a -10 on the pump side of the tank, can the guys in the know please advise on baffle location and or pictures as to what I should get fitted.

Thanks

Graham

[Blu3R]

Smack with mallet.

[R0162]

Graham,

I did a baffled tank and have had no problems on the track with low fuel, but i'm not sure people agree with my thinking on this one, as in there are better ways to do it... i.e. removable lid with tank foam..... but still i will share it with you to give another option.
To also confirm the straps just need a tap to free up.

Basically all i did was taper the tank and put vertical plates inside as baffles, the plates have a small gap underneath to allow all compartments to stay at same fuel level.
The reason i went this method is because of surface area, i.e. if you have a big surface area on the tank floor then 5 litres of fuel would hardly cover the height of the fuel outlet, so if the surface area is halfed then the fuel level is twice as high and so on, so with 10 litres of fuel you can safely well above the fuel outlet, so this saves carry extra weight of unuseable fuel, but my tank is now only 45 litres, i did not see this as a down side though, because the stock tank only had 40 litres capacity because the last 20 litres was unuseable without risking fuel starvation, so that was just an extra 15kg of fuel being permanently carried around that you could never use.
It also frees up space under the tank to put the filter and pump, leaving the side pod free for oil coolers and reduces the sound from the Bosch 044 by moving it out of the side pod.
Ps.. tank also has another horizontal baffle about 5" up the slope to stop fuel surging too far up slope under acceleration.

[Hollowpockets]

They needed a fair whack with a big mallet and a long screwdriver but that's them off, tank is just draining now, what should I flush the tank with to get rid of vapours before taking it anywhere?

Thanks for the pics and idea Chris, I have the funky bosche twin pump and filter assembly so no chance I'm putting that under the tank, my coolers are all up front and want to have 50+ useable litres so may do some small baffles around the take off then fit tank foam.

G

[TuxMan]

Hi Graham , this is what i have done with mine .




here is pump setup

Edited by TuxMan on Monday 6th February 17:45

[Rob_W]

Is the filter after the pumps on that set up?

[andygtt]

baffling the tank is complicated and personally Id fill it with foam instead.

I did baffle mine, but I have a catch tank, lifter pumps and a swirl pot inside the tank... i'm guessing you don't want to go that far lol.

[Hollowpockets]

Yo Tux, That's the pump and bracket set up I'm fitting, looks very nice and tidy!

Anyone know if tank foam would remove the need for baffles?? Just want to know what my options are, bugger, just remembered the fuel gauge is a lever type, I can't be hooped running any more sensors/gauges to the dash so what would be the easiest option?

Some baffles with maybe 4" of foam on the base to keep the fuel level above the take off???

Graham

Edited by Hollowpockets on Monday 6th February 18:12

[TuxMan]

Yep filter after pumps , hi Graham nice setup but yesterday I primed the system up and fuel pissed out everywhere !!! Not sure why :-((((

[R0162]

Hollowpockets said:

Yo Tux, That's the pump and bracket set up I'm fitting, looks very nice and tidy!

Anyone know if tank foam would remove the need for baffles?? Just want to know what my options are, bugger, just remembered the fuel gauge is a lever type, I can't be hooped running any more sensors/gauges to the dash so what would be the easiest option?

Some baffles with maybe 4" of foam on the base to keep the fuel level above the take off???

Graham

Edited by Hollowpockets on Monday 6th February 18:12

The lever on the fuel sender does not touch the bottom of the tank, it will still work and will just sit on top of the foam blocks when showing empty, you can adjust the sender slightly on the arm resistor there is a little screw.. so when it sits on top of foam it can show 1/8 tank left in.. the only down side is it loses it from the full level.. i.e. it might still show full when its used 1/8th tank.. its a bit of a compromise... but i consider it better to have an accurate reading on empty rather than full.

No baffles required with tank foam but you will need to do the GTO600 mod and get a removable lid made for access..

[andygtt]

all you need to do is not put foam were the sendor goes... without mods the sensor doesnt got to the bottom of the tank anyhow.

You can fit foam and then weld the tank back up... it doesnt have to have an open top unless you have pumps in it (which is what I did).

Alternativelly why not fit a swirl pot in the tank in a similar way to me... isnt that much more money and doenst have to be complex, just means buying an alloy swirl pot welding it inside the tank and use your old pump as an external lifter.... then your 044 will always have a good head of fuel and wont buzz or ever run out of fuel

[GTO600]

I designed a race spec tank & had Proalloy manufacture which you can now buy from them, basically same shape but not as tall, has removable access plate, internal fuel collecter,
foam filled & insulated. To have the whole tank foam filled though you need a dip tube sender which will mean changing the fuel gauge to Vdo or similar. Price is high with all the options but can run down below 5 litres ontrack.




http://www.proalloy.co.uk/cgi-bin/sitewise.pl?act=...

Kevin

[Hollowpockets]

about 20 bricks for propping up the rear wheels!

I got the impression on here the tanks were just open tanks but when looking down the nozzle it appears my tank has full height and width, width way baffles with a few holes in the middle and at the lower corners... The take off nozzle has a pipe on the inside which leads to the middle of the tank also, discuss...

[Blu3R]

Unless the M400 had different to the rest of the M12s I'd say yours has already been modified. Mine (53 3R) was just an empty box, as is the one I replaced it with that has the outlet on the pump side.

[Hollowpockets]

It's never been out before so it must have been an M400 thing, however I still get the fuel gauge going 1/4 tank up or down on high speed corners on track so clearly not baffled enough/in the right place, foam below the 0-gauge point and in the column above the take off point should help reduce slosh.

[andygtt]

My understanding was that all tanks had the baffle you refer to?.. mine definatelly did and its a GT03, although in truth its not a useful baffle as the holes are way to large front to rear and its the side to side that you need to worry about anyhow as fuelling isnt usually an issue under heavy braking and the pickup is rear of the tank!

id get a swirl pot fitted... its same money as baffling and only downside is you have to run another external pump.
I went totally OTT on mine with 2 lifter pumps and 2 044's, whilst ideal its overkill it still only cost me around 600 including all 2 lifter pumps, holders and the tank/pot being made.

If your running the twin 044 pump setup I've seen then you really need to put a good pressure on the front as otherwise the 044's are going to buzz as both try to get fuel through the single -10 inlet IMO.... 044's cant suck so need pressure behind them, on stock that pressure is purelly the weight of the fuel... my view is that when the weight of the fuel isnt giving a good enough pressure the pumps cavitate then overheat and thus buzz.... when they buzz they are not running at full capacity as grant proved on the dyno.

I think Gadge put his original pump in front of the 044 to prime it, I actually think this is one of the best solutions to a fairly stock setup.

whatever you do make sure you heat protect the sides of the tanks in the engine bay... I made the mistake of not doing this

Of cause this is all just my view

[funkybmx1]

I actually got my pump so hot it shut down for ten min cause of starvation to it. It slowed and slowed until it shut down completely. Again cause not havin enough fuel behind it. It was Andy who came round and help me solve that. Which iv never forgot. Thank you Andy . And your wide range of spare parts lol

[Hollowpockets]

funkybmx1 said:

I actually got my pump so hot it shut down for ten min cause of starvation to it. It slowed and slowed until it shut down completely. Again cause not havin enough fuel behind it. It was Andy who came round and help me solve that. Which iv never forgot. Thank you Andy . And your wide range of spare parts lol

Maybe that was the result of one pump flat out that caused the heat and not lack of fuel pressure??

[funkybmx1]

Nope It wasn't that. Fuel restriction to and threw a to smaller filter which clogged. So I agree with two feeds two filters if that's the way your doing it. Anyway just something for people to think about. Pumps don't like goin dry

[Hollowpockets]

Was thinking a single -10 feed to original pre-pump filter to keep the pumps safe from debris, then from filter to twin pump setup as per Tux's picture which has a filter above pumps before fuel goes to rail/regulator.