In dispute with OPC - advice please
Discussion
I'd like the collective's advice please.
I bought an 07 Cayman from an OPC far far away last September. It came with 19K miles, a major service, 2 yr warranty and two new rear tyres. On collection there were a couple of quite obvious faults which supplying OPC paid for my local OPC Bristol to correct, without quibble. I then went to Africa for 6 weeks (in September/October i.e dry), during which time my wife drove it twice. On return I have put on 4000 miles in 4 months use, with a great flurry of motorway stuff at the beginning and then daily about-town use. I have a 6 week mileage log that I have to keep for HMR&C which I did in Nov/Dec which shows daily use. The car is always garaged (as a condition of insurance) and I always give it a drive after washing so as to dry the brakes.
I took the car to my local OPC because the aircon was noisy and over the last couple of months Ive noticed a soft grinding from the front brakes on gentle braking. They found the following:
Aircon needs regassing (no leak)
Both front tyres are originals, date stamps matching manufacture year, and are illegal, measuring 5,5,0 and 5,4,0 with the inner edges being 0
One rear tyre is new, the other is an original, measuring 3,3,0
Rear damper leaking (warranty item)
Both front discs heavily corroded and starting to break up.
Total cost for this little lot somewhere in the region of £3k, of which £1k is warrantied. Bristol were quick to point out the very odd pattern of tyre wear.
Once over the shock Ive been in discussion with supplying dealer, who has been sent photos of tyres and discs by Bristol.
We have so far agreed that they will bear the cost of regassing the air-con (thought they maintain this was done in Sept and so must be a minor leak somewhere) and a new rear tyre (though they maintain that the sales guy got his facts wrong and one rear tyre was 3,4,3 so not replaced).
With regards to the fronts they dispute Bristol's method of measuring the inner area of tread, maintain that the tyres were both ok at inspection and that they have a geometry print-out which says that too was fine at sale. On the premise that I bought the car knowing the fronts weren't new and so I'd have to replace sometime anyway, I have agreed to fund new fronts.
The sticking point is the discs. I will post pics if I can figure out how to do, but supplying dealer says appearance is entirely consistent with discs which are left wet on a car which isn't used much, or often.
For my part I know (and can prove) that not only is this not true, but that I've only been driving the car for 4 months and 4K miles. Honestly, if Porsche discs corrode that quickly then I'd imagine almost every porsche would need new discs every winter.
Having reiterated the above points I am awaiting further comment from the supplying dealer. I genuinely don't know if they will dispute this further, and refuse to pay for the new discs, quoted at £900. If they do refuse then
1) what are my options?
2) If I go ahead and fund the disc replacement myself (as I want my car back) then does this prejudice a future claim?
I am not vindictive, nor grabby, and am realistic about Porsche running costs. However I did not expect this outlay this quickly after an OPC purchase, and I still cannot believe that discs can degrade so much in such a short time frame
I bought an 07 Cayman from an OPC far far away last September. It came with 19K miles, a major service, 2 yr warranty and two new rear tyres. On collection there were a couple of quite obvious faults which supplying OPC paid for my local OPC Bristol to correct, without quibble. I then went to Africa for 6 weeks (in September/October i.e dry), during which time my wife drove it twice. On return I have put on 4000 miles in 4 months use, with a great flurry of motorway stuff at the beginning and then daily about-town use. I have a 6 week mileage log that I have to keep for HMR&C which I did in Nov/Dec which shows daily use. The car is always garaged (as a condition of insurance) and I always give it a drive after washing so as to dry the brakes.
I took the car to my local OPC because the aircon was noisy and over the last couple of months Ive noticed a soft grinding from the front brakes on gentle braking. They found the following:
Aircon needs regassing (no leak)
Both front tyres are originals, date stamps matching manufacture year, and are illegal, measuring 5,5,0 and 5,4,0 with the inner edges being 0
One rear tyre is new, the other is an original, measuring 3,3,0
Rear damper leaking (warranty item)
Both front discs heavily corroded and starting to break up.
Total cost for this little lot somewhere in the region of £3k, of which £1k is warrantied. Bristol were quick to point out the very odd pattern of tyre wear.
Once over the shock Ive been in discussion with supplying dealer, who has been sent photos of tyres and discs by Bristol.
We have so far agreed that they will bear the cost of regassing the air-con (thought they maintain this was done in Sept and so must be a minor leak somewhere) and a new rear tyre (though they maintain that the sales guy got his facts wrong and one rear tyre was 3,4,3 so not replaced).
With regards to the fronts they dispute Bristol's method of measuring the inner area of tread, maintain that the tyres were both ok at inspection and that they have a geometry print-out which says that too was fine at sale. On the premise that I bought the car knowing the fronts weren't new and so I'd have to replace sometime anyway, I have agreed to fund new fronts.
The sticking point is the discs. I will post pics if I can figure out how to do, but supplying dealer says appearance is entirely consistent with discs which are left wet on a car which isn't used much, or often.
For my part I know (and can prove) that not only is this not true, but that I've only been driving the car for 4 months and 4K miles. Honestly, if Porsche discs corrode that quickly then I'd imagine almost every porsche would need new discs every winter.
Having reiterated the above points I am awaiting further comment from the supplying dealer. I genuinely don't know if they will dispute this further, and refuse to pay for the new discs, quoted at £900. If they do refuse then
1) what are my options?
2) If I go ahead and fund the disc replacement myself (as I want my car back) then does this prejudice a future claim?
I am not vindictive, nor grabby, and am realistic about Porsche running costs. However I did not expect this outlay this quickly after an OPC purchase, and I still cannot believe that discs can degrade so much in such a short time frame
Edited by snapper65 on Wednesday 22 February 15:11
snapper65 said:
I'd like the collective's advice please.
I bought an 07 Cayman from an OPC far far away last September. It came with 19K miles, a major service, 2 yr warranty and two new rear tyres. On collection there were a couple of quite obvious faults which supplying OPC paid for Bristol to correct, without quibble. I then went to Africa for 6 weeks (in September/October i.e dry), during which time my wife drove it twice. On return I have put on 4000 miles in 4 months use, with a great flurry of motorway stuff at the beginning and then daily about-town use. I have a 6 week mileage log that I have to keep for HMR&C which I did in Nov/Dec which shows daily use. The car is always garaged (as a condition of insurance) and I always give it a drive after washing so as to dry the brakes.
I took the car to my local OPC because the aircon was noisy and over the last couple of months Ive noticed a soft grinding from the front brakes on gentle braking. They found the following:
Aircon needs regassing (no leak)
Both front tyres are originals, date stamps matching manufacture year, and are illegal, measuring 5,5,0 and 5,4,0 with the inner edges being 0
One rear tyre is new, the other is an original, measuring 3,3,0
Rear damper leaking (warranty item)
Both front discs heavily corroded and starting to break up.
Total cost for this little lot somewhere in the region of £3k, of which £1k is warrantied. Bristol were quick to point out the very odd pattern of tyre wear.
Once over the shock Ive been in discussion with supplying dealer, who has been sent photos of tyres and discs by Bristol.
We have so far agreed that they will bear the cost of regassing the air-con (thought they maintain this was done in Sept and so must be a minor leak somewhere) and a new rear tyre (though they maintain that the sales guy got his facts wrong and one rear tyre was 3,4,3 so not replaced).
With regards to the fronts they dispute Bristol's method of measuring the inner area of tread, maintain that the tyres were both ok at inspection and that they have a geometry print-out which says that too was fine at sale. On the premise that I bought the car knowing the fronts weren't new and so I'd have to replace sometime anyway, I have agreed to fund new fronts.
The sticking point is the discs. I will post pics if I can figure out how to do, but supplying dealer says appearance is entirely consistent with discs which are left wet on a car which isn't used much, or often.
For my part I know (and can prove) that not only is this not true, but that I've only been driving the car for 4 months and 4K miles. Honestly, if Porsche discs corrode that quickly then I'd imagine almost every porsche would need new discs every winter.
Having reiterated the above points I am awaiting further comment from the supplying dealer. I genuinely don't know if they will dispute this further, and refuse to pay for the new discs, quoted at £900. If they do refuse then
1) what are my options?
2) If I go ahead and fund the disc replacement myself (as I want my car back) then does this prejudice a future claim?
I am not vindictive, nor grabby, and am realistic about Porsche running costs. However I did not expect this outlay this quickly after an OPC purchase, and I still cannot believe that discs can degrade so much in such a short time frame
A friend of mine bought a new Cab 996 a few years back and left it outside for around 8 weeks whilst having his garage rebuilt. I bought an 07 Cayman from an OPC far far away last September. It came with 19K miles, a major service, 2 yr warranty and two new rear tyres. On collection there were a couple of quite obvious faults which supplying OPC paid for Bristol to correct, without quibble. I then went to Africa for 6 weeks (in September/October i.e dry), during which time my wife drove it twice. On return I have put on 4000 miles in 4 months use, with a great flurry of motorway stuff at the beginning and then daily about-town use. I have a 6 week mileage log that I have to keep for HMR&C which I did in Nov/Dec which shows daily use. The car is always garaged (as a condition of insurance) and I always give it a drive after washing so as to dry the brakes.
I took the car to my local OPC because the aircon was noisy and over the last couple of months Ive noticed a soft grinding from the front brakes on gentle braking. They found the following:
Aircon needs regassing (no leak)
Both front tyres are originals, date stamps matching manufacture year, and are illegal, measuring 5,5,0 and 5,4,0 with the inner edges being 0
One rear tyre is new, the other is an original, measuring 3,3,0
Rear damper leaking (warranty item)
Both front discs heavily corroded and starting to break up.
Total cost for this little lot somewhere in the region of £3k, of which £1k is warrantied. Bristol were quick to point out the very odd pattern of tyre wear.
Once over the shock Ive been in discussion with supplying dealer, who has been sent photos of tyres and discs by Bristol.
We have so far agreed that they will bear the cost of regassing the air-con (thought they maintain this was done in Sept and so must be a minor leak somewhere) and a new rear tyre (though they maintain that the sales guy got his facts wrong and one rear tyre was 3,4,3 so not replaced).
With regards to the fronts they dispute Bristol's method of measuring the inner area of tread, maintain that the tyres were both ok at inspection and that they have a geometry print-out which says that too was fine at sale. On the premise that I bought the car knowing the fronts weren't new and so I'd have to replace sometime anyway, I have agreed to fund new fronts.
The sticking point is the discs. I will post pics if I can figure out how to do, but supplying dealer says appearance is entirely consistent with discs which are left wet on a car which isn't used much, or often.
For my part I know (and can prove) that not only is this not true, but that I've only been driving the car for 4 months and 4K miles. Honestly, if Porsche discs corrode that quickly then I'd imagine almost every porsche would need new discs every winter.
Having reiterated the above points I am awaiting further comment from the supplying dealer. I genuinely don't know if they will dispute this further, and refuse to pay for the new discs, quoted at £900. If they do refuse then
1) what are my options?
2) If I go ahead and fund the disc replacement myself (as I want my car back) then does this prejudice a future claim?
I am not vindictive, nor grabby, and am realistic about Porsche running costs. However I did not expect this outlay this quickly after an OPC purchase, and I still cannot believe that discs can degrade so much in such a short time frame
Replacement discs were needed because the originals had corroded so badly. I'm sure he had to pay.
The OPC suggested (I promise you) that if in future he leaves the car for any amount of time out doors to spray his discs with WD40 to inhibit the attack of rust.
Wozy68 said:
A friend of mine bought a new Cab 996 a few years back and left it outside for around 8 weeks whilst having his garage rebuilt.
Replacement discs were needed because the originals had corroded so badly. I'm sure he had to pay.
The OPC suggested (I promise you) that if in future he leaves the car for any amount of time out doors to spray his discs with WD40 to inhibit the attack of rust.
OK, but my car is ALWAYS garaged (on the premise that if left out and someone nicks it then the insurer won't cough up)Replacement discs were needed because the originals had corroded so badly. I'm sure he had to pay.
The OPC suggested (I promise you) that if in future he leaves the car for any amount of time out doors to spray his discs with WD40 to inhibit the attack of rust.
If the car is driven wet in the garage then the corrosion is still gonna happen. Based on low mileage though I assume they were corrosed at least inside before you got the car.
Aircon does not need recharging that often if there is no leak. On a car that age, the condensers will leak, 99% sure, unless they ve been changed or cleaned or protected by a grille etc, which the OPC don't do.
I am a bit confused about the tyre situation, it should be easy to measure when inspecting the car though, you can't trust an OPC, can you ?
Aircon does not need recharging that often if there is no leak. On a car that age, the condensers will leak, 99% sure, unless they ve been changed or cleaned or protected by a grille etc, which the OPC don't do.
I am a bit confused about the tyre situation, it should be easy to measure when inspecting the car though, you can't trust an OPC, can you ?
snapper65 said:
photos of discs
http://s1154.photobucket.com/albums/p522/timmytent...
http://s1154.photobucket.com/albums/p522/timmytent...
Surely that's not the result of 4 months of (winter) usage. Look at the state of them, if the selling dealer had even bothered to check they must have seen this???http://s1154.photobucket.com/albums/p522/timmytent...
http://s1154.photobucket.com/albums/p522/timmytent...
This is unfortunate so i understand your frustration - however. If the discs had looked that bad when you took delivery of the car you would have seen it. Secondly, when warraty repairs were done by OPC Bristol they at least would have picked this up at that point in time. So unless there is a known corroding issue with this batch of discs it is hard to blame the OPC.
If it's still on it's original discs and pads (at around 5 years old) it's not that surprising they need changing, especially if the previous owner(s) did leave it outside.
I had to do the one's on my Boxster "S" at 3 years old / 24,000 miles as the front discs were an MOT failure (yes at Porsche Reading), so £857 less 10% PCGB discount. However, it wasn't garaged and after I had it done, the brakes were amazing .... so much better than when I first got it!
MM.
I had to do the one's on my Boxster "S" at 3 years old / 24,000 miles as the front discs were an MOT failure (yes at Porsche Reading), so £857 less 10% PCGB discount. However, it wasn't garaged and after I had it done, the brakes were amazing .... so much better than when I first got it!
MM.
clorenzen said:
This is unfortunate so i understand your frustration - however. If the discs had looked that bad when you took delivery of the car you would have seen it. Secondly, when warraty repairs were done by OPC Bristol they at least would have picked this up at that point in time. So unless there is a known corroding issue with this batch of discs it is hard to blame the OPC.
Ive no idea if they looked like that at delivery. Its the inner disc surface so without crawling underneath (Which I didn't do) then how would I know? the outer surfaces look fineWarranty repairs to the leaking damper are being undertaken today at Bristol. The car has not been inspected or attended to by an OPC or anyone else between purchase in Sept and yesterday when they did a visual inspection on the ramp because Id reported the disc were grinding
s_mcneil said:
snapper65 said:
Surely that's not the result of 4 months of (winter) usage. Look at the state of them, if the selling dealer had even bothered to check they must have seen this???Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 22 February 15:54
snapper65 said:
I'd like the collective's advice please.
The car is always garaged (as a condition of insurance) and I always give it a drive after washing so as to dry the brakes.
You do realise that the rate of rusting increases with temperature increase. In the case of the discs putting a car with wet discs in a garage and leaving it to stand is asking for trouble. And the warmer the garage the worse the problem. Probably not what people who swear by garaging a car want to hear.The car is always garaged (as a condition of insurance) and I always give it a drive after washing so as to dry the brakes.
Edited by snapper65 on Wednesday 22 February 15:11
doozy said:
You do realise that the rate of rusting increases with temperature increase. In the case of the discs putting a car with wet discs in a garage and leaving it to stand is asking for trouble. And the warmer the garage the worse the problem. Probably not what people who swear by garaging a car want to hear.
I don't put the car in the garage with wet discs. After washing I take it for an 8 mile round trip up and down some very steep hills and twists. Its my treat for the pain of cleaning the sport design alloys.snapper65 said:
The car is always garaged (as a condition of insurance) and I always give it a drive after washing so as to dry the brakes.
Has it had discs and pads before? Look in the history.If not they may well be due regardless of condition 4K miles ago.
You appear to know what you aer doing regarding keeping the brakes healthy^^ - it sounds more like its just you bought a car with little life left in the discs.
If you can afford to just get new discs and pads, put it down to experience and enjoy the car - keep the drying routine and you should get good life out of the new set. Bear in mind your drive needs to give teh brakes a good spanking to clean and dry the inner faces - outer face is easy but inner face takes work.
And next time you buy a Pcar look at the inner faces yourself before you sign.
Of equal concern from your tyres is what appears to be a chronic need for a geo!
Admittedly this can be written off by potholes on teh way home from far far away so no real comeback on the POC again.
Updated to say the I have had a final discussion with supplying dealer who is refusing to accept responsibility for the state of the discs.
They are offering to arrange collection of said discs for an "independent inspection" but stand by their decision
So I either have to fight it or walk away
They are offering to arrange collection of said discs for an "independent inspection" but stand by their decision
So I either have to fight it or walk away
snapper65 said:
Updated to say the I have had a final discussion with supplying dealer who is refusing to accept responsibility for the state of the discs.
They are offering to arrange collection of said discs for an "independent inspection" but stand by their decision
So I either have to fight it or walk away
What region is the supplying dealer based.. will make note to stay well clear in future.They are offering to arrange collection of said discs for an "independent inspection" but stand by their decision
So I either have to fight it or walk away
The gap between various OPCs and their service standards is rediculous. If bristol are backing you up it may be worth taking this up with Reading (i believe they are OPC HQ) too see what they say.
Besides the discs issue (I can't add a lot to what's been said) the geo sounds out. There could be a number of reasons:
a) Something has caused it go out in your ownership - potholes etc.
b) The print out was done before everything was tightened up, so the box was ticked on the 111 form but the actual geo may have been out when it was all tightened, and hence has been the whole time you've had the car
After 4 months & 4,000 miles it's going to be a bit difficult for you to argue for b) unfortunately so I don't think you'll get anywhere with this sadly.
Actually, regarding the discs, if you do send them off make sure they're marked in some way before doing so (and perhaps don't disclose this) and document it (i.e. photos of markings).
a) Something has caused it go out in your ownership - potholes etc.
b) The print out was done before everything was tightened up, so the box was ticked on the 111 form but the actual geo may have been out when it was all tightened, and hence has been the whole time you've had the car
After 4 months & 4,000 miles it's going to be a bit difficult for you to argue for b) unfortunately so I don't think you'll get anywhere with this sadly.
Actually, regarding the discs, if you do send them off make sure they're marked in some way before doing so (and perhaps don't disclose this) and document it (i.e. photos of markings).
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